jaromgi

Spiffy, thanks for the reply. Really quick, you are right about the optical dizzy being a different shaft connecting to the oil pump. That was the original reason for me swapping out the oil pump. So, I did a turbo swap, and the car would ignite, but the timing was consistently 55 degrees advanced when I checked the timing. I figured that it might be a good time to upgrade to the optical dizzy from the 82/83 turbo. So I put the car on stands and swapped out the oil pump. When installing the pump, I used a similar method to what you outlined. I removed the valve rocker cover, and positioned it so the camshaft showed at TDC on cylinder 1. Just to make sure, I removed spark plug #1 and put a feeler gauge to check the #1 piston position in the cylinder; the piston was indeed at TDC. I then installed the oil pump as per the FSM. While the shaft is a little different on the 82/83 turbo dizzy, it still has the half-moon, and it was the same position as the picture. I even put a rod through the #1 spark plug on the dizzy cap, and then through the rotor to make sure it was all lined up. Tried to fire it up, and had a similar experience, the starter would engage, but it couldn't get it to fire up. The engine would just backfire. After checking, and checking, and rechecking everything, finally I just decided to installed the spindle 180 degrees off. Finally, it would fire up and stay running. Problem is that timing still shows 55-60 degrees advanced. I tried advancing the phasing by installing the pump slightly more advanced, but it wouldn't run more than a few minutes when the timing showed 40 degrees advanced.

Spiff, this is exactly what is going on with mine! Do you mind me asking what your setup is? I have an 81 turbo motor and ECCS, 82/83 distributor/CAS. When I installed the oil pump and distributor EXACTLY according to the FSM (follow the punch hole on the oil pump, put the rod through the spot for #1 plug on the cap, and line up the rotor), and couldn't get ignition at all. We tried moving the oil pump spindle one tooth at a time at until we were 180 degrees off and distributor rotor were 180 off. It finally fired up! BUT, unlike you, my timing is about 55-60 degrees advanced, as measured with a timing light. you said you redid the spark plug wires. Do you mine going into a little bit more detail on what exactly you did?

Well, that's pretty terrifying. Any way to check for slippage without getting the engine to turn over? The problem isn't that the timing light doesn't flash, the problem is that It is hard to get an accurate reading when the only thing turning the engine is the starter motor. It just doesn't spin the motor fast enough to cause enough flashes to read. Thanks for the encouragement!

Thanks again for the advice on what to do next. I have a timing light. I did not use a rod through the #1 tower. I tried, but the FSM 81 turbo supplement never mentioned having to drill a hole in the distributor cap, and I am hesitant to start drilling holes in the cap unless I know that is the right course of action. To be clear, none of the caps I have used have come with a hole in the #1 tower. Am I supposed to drill though the cap to get the rod through? I am confident, however, that it is in phase with #1. The cap has the mark down the side showing where the #1 position is, and so I marked that location from the cap on the CAS. When the engine is at TDC, the rotor is in line with that mark. If I am supposed to drill a hole in the distributor cap, then I will do that and use a rod for the install. The rotor fits just fine and the distributor does not need to be twisted at any weird angle that I can tell. It fights on tight, snug, and without great difficulty. Twisting the rotor was, apparently mistakenly, in an effort to get the timing right, not to make it fit. No heirloom flamable baby seals at the top of the hill for me. I am mostly concerned with getting it running correctly. If I wanted a cheap fix, I would have done what the previous owner did, just start hacking at the distributor, rotor, and cap until I could get it started. As I said before, though, even this idea isn't really an option as the car won't turn over, let alone idle so that I can check the timing. I understand that the CAS is built into the 82/83 distributor/CAS combo and that it is different in the 81 turbo. This is why I bought the oil pump spindle and distributor from a running 82 turbo; I didn't want to have to adjust the 81 CAS. Unfortunately, when I hooked up the EFI wiring harness to the 82/83 CAS wiring, it wouldn't even send spark, so I went back to the 81 turbo CAS. My misunderstanding on changing the timing by twisting the distributor comes videos like this, where they show the timing being adjusted by twisting the distributor either clockwise or counterclockwise. I am trying to learn as I go, so I appreciate your clarification. I have the timing light, but it seems pretty useless without a running car. And again, if I could get the car to give spark using the 82/83 CAS, I would use it in a heartbeat. I have to admit, I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. I understand that I have limited control over how much I can adjust the 81 CAS. I am not sure what you mean by the distributor gear slipping, though. Do you mean the drive spindle that connects it to the oil pump?

Thanks for the explanation on the distinction between phasing and timing; I admit that I thought that adjusting the phasing would also adjust the timing. I know I can always count on Hybridz to give a good explanation. To be clear, I did also adjust the CAS to try and adjust the timing on the engine. It was not an easy task. It required moving the AC adjuster pulley just to get to the bolts on the CAS I used EF-46 to figure out how to adjust the timing, but unfortunately, it didn't really seem to be much help. Basically, it says to adjust the CAS up or down on its bracket depending on whether you want to retard or advance the timing. Since it seemed to be most of the way up, I decided to move it down; this did not help the engine run. The FSM does not give a way to really set the timing when you can't even get the engine to start, at least not that I've been able to find. The next plan is to try different positions of the CAS. Unfortunately, I don't know enough from just listening to the engine if I need to advance or retard the timing. Any pointers?

That is exactly what I was figuring, hence dropping the pump and readjusting it while the engine was at TDC. I didn't think to look at the 81 turbo supplement because I was installing a 82 turbo CAS/distributor, pump and spindle. I did follow the Haynes manual for the installation of the pump, though. If you are talking about the instructions on LC-3&4, then those are the same directions as in the Haynes manual.

9/6 update: So I finally tried to measure the timing on the car, and it ended up being approximately 55 degrees advanced. I set the engine to TDC to see where the rotor positioned. Unsurprisingly, the dizzy rotor was off by a fair margin. I did some searching, and it looked like the oil pump had been removed and then installed with the oil pump spindle misaligned. I figured as long as I had to drop the oil pump and realign the spindle, I might as well upgrade to the 82/83 turbo dizzy at the same time. I found one from a working car on ebay for fairly cheap. When it got it it all put back together, this happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI2Q-L7zjhc I took it apart again, because it sounded like the timing was still way off. I set the engine to TDC again, and made 100% sure that the rotor was in the #1 spark plug wire position before putting it all back together. I was able to get the car to run for a couple of minutes, but only by turning the distributor as far counterclockwise as it would go. It ran for about 2 minutes, and I was setting up the timing light to check the timing, but then the engine died and wouldn't start again while warm. Any more suggestions? To be clear, I am still using the 81 CAS, because when I hooked up the wiring harness to the 82/83 CAS/distributor combo, the car wouldn't even get spark.

8/9 update I did some research on the 82/83 distributor, and it looks like it won't fit because the shaft leading from the distributor to the oil pump is too different. (example in the pics, here). However, it also shows that the connection is the same between N/A distributors and the 81 turbo. Before work this morning, I snagged the 81 N/A distributor and the mounting bracket for it and put it onto the turbo. I didn't attach the sensors or vacuum line to the 81 N/A distributor. The car fired right up! It still idles unevenly, but I don't have all of the vacuum lines in place yet. video is here. Still, I will take progress in any form I can get it. Thanks for all of the help so far, guys.

update! Some good news and some bad news. The reason I wasn't getting any ignition was that one of the fusible links had blown in a way that was not obvious without doing some checking with the multimeter. The fusible link was the one going to the injectors, so they were not getting any power. This explained the lack of flooding, but also the lack of ignition. I pulled a spare link from the parts car, and the injectors got power! I tried to fire it up, but it would just backfire and then sputter out. At this point, the fuel in the tank (only about 1/8 of a tank when I parked it) is about a year old, so I thought that could be causing the backfiring. I purchased 5 gallons of new gas and put it into the tank. I was working on the car with Nismopick, and he suggested the timing could also be off. We put the car at TDC, and pulled the distributor. A previous owner had cut away half of the bracket at the base of the distributor, to give it more play for adjusting timing. Well, they had also done something so that the rotor was no longer in sync. When I took it apart later, it the rotor was cracked, and it looked like they had tried to fix it with glue. I tried to buy a new rotor, but O'Reilly gave me the wrong sized rotor. While I was returning the wrong sized rotor, I took the distributor with me to show them it was the wrong size. While it was there, it broke (as you can see in the base picture), so now I can't even use it. So now, here is my dilemma: Neither O'Reilly, Napa, or Autozone carries the 81 distributor. Oh, they say they do, but you can see pretty clearly it is actually the 82/83 turbo distributor. Long story to get to a relatively short question. Has anybody plugged in the 82/83 turbo distributor into an 81 and had it work? Obviously, the crank angle in the 82/83 won't have a proper connection, but I'm more worried about just getting a functioning distributor in there.

Thanks for the additional suggestions, guys, a couple of points of clarification, though. 1. When checking the carbon button on the distributor cap, what exactly am I looking for? I has some play, but it should because it is spring loaded, right? Am I checking for Ohms, or just that it is there? Tried searching the forum and then google, but couldn't really find any answers on what I am looking for. 2. Rotor appears to be in good condition with no excessive wear or corrosion. I'll post a pic later today. 3. I will check the plug wires today as well. Just in case, I've got ahead and ordered the NGK blue wires, as I've heard really good things about them, and they are 4. A friend suggested checking the plugs, so I tried last night. I pulled the #4 plug and it smelled faintly of gas, and had a slight wet spot, but overall was not damp. I will pull each plug today, though and try to burn off the excess fuel. Any suggestions on how? Just stick a lighter in there (the kind with the long neck)? 5. glow plug procedure - looked on the forums, couldn't find anything under "glow plug procedure." I'll keep looking, but a link would be very helpful.

update. I took a couple videos so you can see where it is getting spark, and not getting spark. The first video is of the plug placed directly in the wire from the ignition coil. The next video is at the plug #6 spot. You can clearly see that the plug is jumping to the body in video 1, and the plug is not sparking at all in video 2. Any input will be welcomed. Video 1 Video 2

Put the distributor back on, still won't start. I am going to go back through the wiring to see if I have missed anything in the connections on the battery side. where the EFI harness connects to the body electrical harness.

Update #2. So, put in the new coil, got it plugged in and when I turned they key, it actually got spark and ignited; it then died after a second or two. I was excited, and went to get the wife to show her that it was starting to run. Tried it again, and nothing; same as before, the starter motor engages easily, but the spark plugs don't seem to fire. When I put a spark plug on the wire from the coil to the distributor, it sparks, but usually as a short from the base of the plug to the body of the car. If I hold the plug away from the body of the car, there is no spark in the plug. I made the mistake of holding the wire once and it shocked the crap out of me. I am not even more confused as to why I am not getting spark, because it is obviously getting power!! Same results happens when I use of of the spark plug wires coming from the distributor to the spark plugs. Took off the distributor to see if anything was obviously wrong there, but I couldn't really see anything. I will be putting it back on tonight to try again.

Update on the car. I took the unit to autozone for testing, and it ended up failing both tests. I bought a new one and will get it hooked up today; hopefully it will fire up this time. As for the piece, I saw it referred to in another thread as the "RF resistor." The picture below is not mine, but the part I am talking about is the one in the red oval. You can see the blue and black wires I was talking about. I thought the ignition transistor was the part on the left of bracket in the picture, is that not right? The plug that goes into there is where I tested the power before to see if the coil was getting power. That has been plugged in every time. It is possible the ground wasn't very secure, so I have tightened it down. I will try again and let you guys know how it goes.

NewZed, thanks for clarifying Motoman's post. I am sorry for my confusion, but I am still fairly new to working on cars, so I got the starter solenoid and the starter motor bolt mixed up in my head. I did go out and purchase a new cable to do what Motoman said. I have put the new picture below to show the new ground wire. It sounds like it is much closer to starting; the starter engages much more readily. It was definitely part of the problem, so thanks for the help with that. The cable is a bit long, but you can clearly see that it is going from the starter motor bolt on the battery box, and then to the bolt on the starter motor. I changed it to go straight from the battery terminal to the bolt on the starter motor. However, I am still not getting spark! I checked the YW wire and the BW wire that connect to the ignition coil, and the coil is getting around 12V when the car is ON, and about 10V when the starter engages. I am taking the ignition coil to autozone today to have them test it to see if it has somehow gone bad. Also, while I was taking the ignition coil off for testing, I came across a small capacitor(?) attached to the coil bracket. It says Shizuki 250-0.47 on it, and on the top it has a blue wire with a male connector that connects to a BW wire on the ignition wiring. Out the bottom it has a black wire that leads to a female connector that I don't see an obvious place to connect anything to. I can't even find the stupid thing on the wiring diagram. Anybody know what I am talking about, or where that black connector goes?

Update. I spent a good portion of today trying to go through everything one more time. I should mention that after replacing the burnt out wire the first time, none of the grounds have had the same issue. Following motomanmike's suggestion, though, I tried to improve the ground running from the battery. I have included pictures of the setup that I have below. If you guys can see something wrong, let me know, and I'll be happy to fix it. I have thick wiring between the positive battery terminal and the starter, and the negative terminal does go straight to the same bolt as the starter motor. As far as wiring diagrams go, I did find another thread where it was a 81 280zx na to turbo swap, where both cars were from 81. In the thread here, they use the same diagram as is on the website I linked to above. That person did modify it, however, in that they also grounded a blue wire with a green stripe by the ECU (I believe it is to the inhibitor relay). I think I found the correct wire, but for whatever reason, I am still getting zero spark. I will upload pictures tomorrow of wiring connections to see if I have missed something from that thread, but between the diagram, and that thread, I think I have things linked up the same way they did. Here is the setup for the starter and ground.

So what do you recommend? I've taken it out once, and tried grounding it in 3 separate places. I don't know what else I can do to get a better ground.

Hey guys, this is my first post in HybridZ, but I have been lurking for a while. I posted this same question over at Zdriver, but I haven't gotten much of a response. I'm hoping you guys can help to crack the problem. So, I have been doing a 280zx n/a to turbo swap. In an effort to keep things as simple as possible, I purchased a 1981 280zx turbo donor car to put the motor into my 1981 280zx N/A 2+2. Both cars were in running condition before the swap. I am using the stock harness, stock 1981 turbo ecu, and stock distributor. Everything went pretty much according to plan until it came time to fire it up. I used the wiring diagram from here. I have everything in place and hooked up, but the car just won't start. The starter motor engages, and I can tell I am getting fuel pressure, but the car starts dumping the 12V into the ground wires. The first time I started to fire it up, one of the ground wires burnt through its insulation in a cloud of smoke. I took out the entire harness again and replaced the wire that had burnt. I rewired everything with the help of NismoPick, to make sure I didn't goof anything up. Despite this, it is still running voltage through the grounds, and I am getting nothing in terms of spark. I'm pretty dense when it comes to wiring and electronics, but I've checked and rechecked everything, and it is all set up according to the diagram in the site I linked to. I can post pics to verify if that would help. Any suggestions?