dukegrad98

I remember seeing that back when I was working with my V12TT setup, and communicating with that gentleman. Good info. The power potential of this engine is great -- mine is running on very conservative boost at nearly 600hp. Cheers, John http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=153484

Apologies for stepping away from this thread -- I randomly checked it today, and came to the realization that I was not getting notified when follow-up posts were made. Didn't mean to ignore you guys... The Cobra replica originally had a modular Ford V8 installed, which died from oil starvation (long story about a defective oil pan design, not worth repeating here). I was a bit bored with the build and that engine, which was making around 300hp. Now mind you, the car is about 2200-2300 pounds wet, so horsepower-to-weight ratios exceed nearly any production vehicle. Some of you commented on the turbo location. There are a couple of reasons for hanging one off the passenger side and one out front. First and foremost, there is no room for a turbo directly on the driver side manifold. I'm using hydraulic power steering and brakes on this car, and the hydroboost unit comes off the driver footbox and pedal assembly, and pretty much takes up all the room under the driver front fender. The driver side exhaust is piped under the engine and to the turbo on the passenger side. The passenger side exhaust goes up front to the turbo there. Pipes are not exactly the same length, but they are not as much different as you would think. Both turbos seem to spool at about the same pace. Also, they feed into the same intercooler and a single throttle body, so there is never a pressure imbalance between the two banks. I might have preferred both turbos out front, actually, but there wasn't room or hood clearance on the body to do it that way. For now, the turbos are limited to about 10.5psi of boost. At max boost and RPM, I think my aftermarket injectors are operating at about 80-85% -- I forget the exact calculation at the moment. Readings at the rear wheels are around 495hp and 580lb-ft. Assuming 15% drivetrain loss, that's 576hp and 683lb-ft of torque at the crank. Those of you that don't believe this provides a ride which will make you "crap your pants a little" are delusional. The car is blindingly fast, and the engine is capable of spinning the 315/35/17 drag radials in any of the first three gears in spite of a 2.73:1 rear-end (I replaced the 4.10:1, which would have been truly useless). I hear the stock block and rotating assembly can take 15-16psi, but the 10mm torque-to-yield head bolts are the limiting factor. For now, I'm making way more than enough power and have no plans to further tune the car. Should I ever want, some ARP bolts and a re-tune would probably get me close to 1000 crank horsepower. Then you start worrying about the clutch, transmission, and so many other parts... No point for now, as the car is still a weekend cruiser and not a track racer. The car has simple fiberglass packing in the sidepipes -- no real muffler. These are the same units I used with the old V8, with new j-pipes feeding them. The turbos do a great job muffling the engine sound -- the car was run with open headers before the turbo fabrication was complete. One of my goals was a quieter and more subtle exhaust tone, and I got it. (Plus, it's that V12 note instead of the typical V8 -- even people that couldn't spot the difference with the hood up can tell that it sounds different.) Above 3000rpm, the turbos are making more noise than the engine anyway. I also have one very large Tial blow-off valve to keep things safe. For now, redline computer-limited at 6200rpm, but power peaks in the mid 5000rpm range -- better to shift gears and get back in the fat part of the torque curve. The dyno vids cut out before 6000rpm. The 6-speed Getrag out of the 850CSi application is a dream to drive: smooth, easy to engage the hydraulic clutch, great synchro on the shifts, etc. I've only put about 600 miles on the car since it was completed. Right now the Electromotive TEC3R is in the shop for some software upgrades to resolve a known issue in V12 applications -- thanks go out to our friend Chelle for pointing me in the right direction on that. I should have the car up and running again in a week, though we're in the middle of some sloppy weather here in East Texas right now anyway. Chelle, let me know when you're bringing the GTO down here for a country drive and a magazine photo shoot. That would truly be a blast. Sometime next summer I will be trailering her up to my place in Colorado for a couple weeks of vacation and mountain driving as well -- standing invitation to pop by. Thanks to all of you for the comments. Cheers, John

Many of you here are aware of Chelle's BMW V12 in the Z chassis Ferrari replica, and one or two other V12 builds. I recently poured the same M70 engine into a Shelby Cobra chassis, and slapped twin turbos on it just to get some decent power levels out of the block. She now makes 491 horsepower and 576 lb-ft of torque - at the rear wheels. If you're interested, you can read more here: http://www.ffcobra.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228016 Cheers, John

I'll resurrect this thread one more time, as I have finally finished my M70 build-up. It's not in a Z-car, but Chelle's car was always on the edge of my radar screen as I cooked up this idea and went about executing it. In the end, I have the world's first twin-turbo V12-powered Shelby Cobra replica. I may post a new thread as well, but you can read more here: http://www.ffcobra.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228016 Cheers, John

Apparently the answer -- or the closest answer -- is a throttle body from the E30 3-series. I haven't tried it yet. Will probably just gut the electronic throttle bodies, since I am looking at a full custom induction setup. Anyway, I just missed this thread being at the top. I've acquired my transmission. Time to move forward. Cheers, John

Does anyone -- ANYONE -- know what manual throttle bodies mate to the M70 V12 intake? Only a few people have done this swap, and I haven't had any luck with my e-mails to them. Help appreciated. Cheers, John

Seems I heard several months ago that VW pulled out of the BlueTec consortium, because Benz was so far ahead -- the tag has basically become part of the Mercedes packaging, and VW wants to stick with its TDI badging for branding purposes. Whatever... Porsche is already calling all the shots over there anyway -- how much longer do you think they'll let Audi keep winning races? Cheers, John

Thanks, Chelle. Congrats on changing directions professionally; I know first-hand that the transition is not always smooth. Please just shoot me a PM or e-mail at your convenience. I believe it's M30 (or M50?) throttle bodies that I need to source. And of course, I'd still buy your Tremec transmission adapter plate in a heartbeat if you could find it... Get in touch when you have a moment -- I'm putting the engine back together soon, and hope to have the project on the road in another month or three. Thanks again! Cheers, John

Sounds like he got unlucky. Almost undoubtedly this was the ill-fated 3.5-liter engine, commonly called "the rod-bender" online. It was Mercedes' greatest mistake in diesel engines, and the #1 reason not to own the W140 diesel, though no one is really sure how many engines were affected or whether a design change actually fixed them or not. Mercedes has been very tight-lipped about that unit. Nearly every other model I'm aware of has been bulletproof. I just talked to a guy this past week that has over 760,000 miles on his...without a rebuild. Cheers, John

The OM606 in my 1998 Mercedes-Benz E300 Turbodiesel has an amazingly flat torque curve from about 1800rpm to about 4500rpm, and makes 0-60mph in 8 seconds in a 4000-pound sedan. The inline-six is a very simple engine design, and would make an interesting swap. This also happens to be an all-aluminum engine, and the first DOHC turbodiesel in a production car. Above 1000rpm or so you can barely tell it's a diesel -- only a little clatter at idle. It's also very biofuel friendly. I have no idea what transmission options are out there other than the 5-speed auto box that came in the car. There might be a Euro manual available, but not in the States. Cheers, John

Nice swap, and a decent motor. FWIW, the S62 engine in my E39 M5 was probably the only thing in the car that didn't fail or break. That car was ALWAYS in the shop, which is why I sold it after only 3 years and 30k miles. The engine unit itself seems to be fairly dependable, but forget about the trans and clutch they used in the factory car. As luck would have it, I've got a BMW M70 sitting on a stand in my garage just looking for a project. The goal right now is to figure out a traditional trans for it, but the famous Chelle is a tough woman to get in touch with! Maybe I'll give up on front-engine/rear-drive, slap on a G50, and find a mid-engine chassis to put it in... Cheers, John

I'm having no trouble locating Getrag Type F gearboxes. But no one will tell me the dimensions of the bloody thing, so I have no idea if it will fit. It's getting frustrating! Also, the good folks down at Dellow Auto have been helpful. Apparently they make a bellhousing and throwout bearing to adapt a TKO to the M70. However, the guy in charge of that project/division is on vacation -- for a month. So I'm kind of on hold about what to do for a transmission, and I really wanted to drop the driveline in for testing in the next few weeks. I'll keep updating. I'd start a new thread, but since this isn't for a Z-car, I'm mostly just leveraging Chelle and the one or two others that have used this mill before me. There's precious little info out there. Cheers, John

Got my engine up on the stand last night and got the hoist back out of the way. Now it's time to start degreasing and painting it up nicely, and to figure out how I'm going to attach a transmission to this thing. Good times ahead... Cheers, John

I can buy the 850CSi trans new for less than that, which actually surprised me. But as you point out, I still need all the parts to make that work. Looks like it will be a 50%+ premium compared to trying to use an adapter plate to a Tremec or similar gearbox. (Ever find that adapter plate?!) How long is your Getrag gearbox, from where the bellhousing bolts to the engine to the tail of the box? With a live rear axle, I'm a little worried about how much driveshaft length I'll have left. Can't have the u-joints binding over bumps. Six-speeds tend to be much bigger than five-speeds, so I don't want to order a trans not knowing whether it will fit... Thanks again for the info and support -- you've got my e-mail address or can PM if you want to take this off the forum. Cheers, John

Thanks for the info, Chelle. I can buy at wholesale prices from BMW, but the Getrag is still pretty rich for my budget. Shoot me a PM if you're interested in selling yours privately, though this project probably isn't going to wait for winter. Down here in Houston, winter is the driving season! Summers get pretty warm, so that's when we do our tear-downs. Conversely, or even better, let me know if you can dig up that adapter plate you have already made and make me a deal on it. A T56 is a very typical (and good) transmission and would probably work fine in my application. You have my e-mail and phone if you want to contact me more directly. THANK YOU for your reply! Cheers, John