thehelix112 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Hey guys, So I just blew up the L28E in my 280Z and the timing is about perfect as I have around 3.5-4K set aside to try and get the VK56DE I already have installed. I will be doing as much of the fabrication myself as possible, getting a TiG for my birthday so I'm sure I'll be able to make a good ole mess of things. The engine itself needs some work to be able to be dropped in, but I think I more or less have a handle on that. Keeping in mind this car is a car ideally I'd like to be able to drive to the track and back again, but that is of secondary concern to me next to not having to do this again and having a reasonable setup for the track. I expect a good 80% of it's use will be track oriented. The rear is already Z31 CV axles and a R200 locker, so hopefully that'll be strong enough to last a while. My main question at the moment is what transmission should I go after? A race-oriented transmission like a second hand Jerico or something, implying maybe a custom bell housing and a custom baby flywheel, but would I guess open up the door to cheaper clutches? Or an OEM-based transmission like a Z32? I believe there is a company on the central west coast that makes that adapter.. http://www.wilcap.com/webdoc2.html I am contemplating a very small diameter multi-plate clutch, which would necessitate a custom flywheel, but I guess it that may well not be within my budget.. What I want out of the car is something that I can further develop without having to have as big a one-time outlay in funds, and something that is very quick at the track. I do not care about streetability. I would love to one day run the car in some time attack events, but I know nothing about them and at this point, the focus is on HPDE events. I realize I sound like a dreamer so if that's the case, please let me know and set me straight. Many thanks, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 Nevermind. I think i sufficiently calmed down and have decided to go the route that has at least some track record with other people. There are a couple of places that have already done the z32 gearbox onto VK56 engine so I guess I'll head down that route. Maybe put the extra monday I save on the box towards the clutch. Speaking of, do people have really strong opinions about different clutch manufacturers? Thinking brands in my price bracket would be the likes of Tilton and quarter master.. Any other brands or small places with great support in socal I should be considering? Thanks, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forcer Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) Drift Emporium makes an adapter for the Z33 trans, and another guy (whose name escapes me at the moment) makes one to use the Z34 trans. Search NeoGarage on google and that should take you to his site. I hope you get this going, since I intend to do the exact same thing with my 280ZX. Edited August 27, 2011 by Forcer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 Thanks dude, didn't know people were setting up with the later zed boxes. Will do some more digging into how much 370z boxes are worth.. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 A local guy(to me) is getting rid of his vk56 swap stuff, he had it in a 350z. Maybe some parts he's selling would work for you. I think you can view this thread without being a member. http://www.nyspeed.com/showthread.php?223137-350z-VK56-Swap-Setup&highlight=vk56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forcer Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Thanks dude, didn't know people were setting up with the later zed boxes. Will do some more digging into how much 370z boxes are worth.. Dave I've seen some go for around $900, but I haven't looked lately. NeoGarage will sometimes sell combos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 Letitsnow, thanks for the link! Pretty expensive at this point. Force, oh awesome! 900 is pretty reasonable. If you see one for sale near socal please let me know! Do you just tend to check z forums classifieds or craigslist or what? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forcer Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I look all over the place, but tend more towards forums and eBay. Right now the only one I can find is on ebay, but they want $1500 for it. If I can find anything closer to you, I'll let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 Awesome, thanks dude. Much appreciated. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2009-NISSAN-370Z-OEM-6-SPEED-MANUAL-TRANSMISSION-VQ37-/270808931418?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f0d785c5a#ht_362 Is pretty reasonable, if I was in or close to Tampa. Will wait for something to pop up on the west coast I guess. Either that or do actual work and annoy wreckers. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forcer Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 They have a number, might be able to call them up and strike a deal. I'd say it's worth a call. I'll say this too, the last time I checked on the adapter plates, they were wanting around $800-900 a pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Worth a shot I guess. No way I am paying that much, will look at getting one machined up I guess. After I have the box will have both sides to adapt so should go ok. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forcer Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Did a quick look for 350Z trans, this is what popped up. http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=Nissan+350Z+6-speed+transmission&_sacat=&_dmpt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_odkw=Pontiac+GTO+6-speed+transmission&_osacat=0&bkBtn=&_trksid=p4506.m270.l1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Share Posted September 15, 2011 Thanks dude. I've been hunting on ebay and craigslist for 370z transmissions, one site I read indicated they're just like a 350z transmission but with more design iterations for strength and reliability. That kinda makes sense, and the price difference is not big enough to warrant not getting them. Unless one of the design iterations was `make this cheaper'.. but I hope not. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forcer Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 It was strength and reliability. One detail I've seen people harp on is the switch to a hydraulic throw out bearing, and I forget the rest. I forgot to mention earlier that Mckinney Motorsports will be working on a VK swap kit for older Z's, but they won't start until they're done with the kit for 350Z's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driven5 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 (edited) Speaking of, do people have really strong opinions about different clutch manufacturers? Thinking brands in my price bracket would be the likes of Tilton and quarter master.. Any other brands or small places with great support in socal I should be considering? Thanks, Dave While I am personally biased towards Quarter Master, the boys local to you on Easy St (Tilton) will probably serve you just fine too. A 7.25" clutch will make a great race clutch, but an 8.5" clutch will probably be a little more streetable and potentially a little better suited for the specific use you're discussing. Even though you might not need the torque capacity of a twin, in addition to Quarter Master and Tilton, you may also want to talk to Spec. They not only have an 8.5" Mini Twin, that we'll just say should be able to directly use Quarter Master replacement parts, but also what appears to be a 10" (Super Twin) aluminum race style clutch that is still very lightweight compared to any OE style steel clutch yet should be just that much more street friendly. I'm not overly familiar with the Tilton friction materials and what might be equivalent, but for cars seeing any type of street use you'll probably be wanting the thicker and more forgiving "Rally" sintered bronze material in 7.25" or 8.5", or maybe the organic 8.5 depending on the amount of power (torque) you're expecting. If you've got the money, carbon is fantastic too. Don't get me wrong though, all of these will be closer to on/off switch than they are to a OE clutch, and should be treated as such to maximize its service life. Remember: Slip the tires, not the clutch. Also make sure that you're using a correct type (radiused vs flat faced, and contact diameter) release bearing. As far as the 'custom' flywheel pulling this together. if the starter is still mounting in the factory location, the easiest thing is probably going to be continuing to use the OEM automatic transmission flexplate. This just leaves you with having a much simpler (cheaper) custom "button" flywheel made (ideally by the clutch manufacturer) which is just big enough for the clutch and offsets it the correct amount for proper clearance from the release bearing. I don't know if Tilton is as friendly about custom setups, but Quarter Master at least used to provide the basic necessary clutch mounting dimensions on request so that racers could machine their own flywheels if necessary for use on all manner of custom projects...And if they won't anymore, let me know and I should be able to track it down for you. Edited September 16, 2011 by Driven5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 Driven5, Thanks for the response, I really appreciate it and apologize for not reading it til now, sucker snuck by me. The quarter master guy I emailed was very responsive, and just asked for specs on the input spline, which I am currently trying to dig up elsewhere: http://my350z.com/forum/370z-engine-and-drivetrain/536927-transmission-mainshaft-input-spline.html http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivetrain/43286-transmission-mainshaft-input-spline.html so I can get back to him for a price. A custom flywheel will run around $300 according to him. I kinda have my heart set on a 5.5" or smaller, assuming they don't end up so thick that there isn't room in there for them, but I kinda doubt that will be a big issue. I understand this will be a button clutch, I've been in a friend's R32 GTR multiplate thing that would randomly decide to grab when sitting still, fun fun. This car will not be driven in traffic. I failed to find any specifications on the different friction materials available from QM, nor on the torque capabilities of the clutches themselves. I am talking to QM about this one: http://www.quartermasterusa.com/qm/clutches/v-drive-clutch-units/without-button-flywheel-3-disc-1-1-8-x-10-5-5-quot-v-drive-clutch-unit.html Any info you have on torque capabilities would be awesome. I also have my heart set on not running a starter, or ring gear at all. I'll work something else out for starting it. I realize both these things are foolish, but I don't care. I want to maximize the responsiveness of the engine, that is all. I'll deal with starting it (both the engine, and moving the car) when they become issues. Oh, and I definitely do not have the money for carbon. Thanks again, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driven5 Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) Well I'll try to refrain from interjecting too many opinions and stick to the facts as much as possible. If I recall correctly, the clutches are rated for ~300 ft-lbs per disk. So my guess is you'll at least be looking for twin disk clutches. The 5.5" clutch is an excellent clutch for a dedicated race car, and is the smallest I would recommend for a production based chassis. Even on the most extreme race cars, I've only ever known 4.5" clutches to be used on formula cars. If my understanding is correct, you're running an adapter plate between the engine and transmission that will probably add significant clearance inside the bellhousing. So while granted I haven't seen any of it first hand, I don't think space should be a problem even for a triple disc setup. Since I don't recall them offering the Rally material in the 5.5" clutches, I believe your options are pretty much limited to the material included with the clutch as standard. I'll definitely be curious to see what you can come up with for a starting solution that doesn't use any type of ring gear or starter. Just remember that if you do need to go back to a flex plate later, that you'll also need to be able to adjust for the increase in stack-up height and reduction in clearance between the clutch spring and release bearing. Edited September 29, 2011 by Driven5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 Haha, cool. I'm fine with you telling me I'm crazy, just makes me more determined to do it. But it's best if I can pick you knowledge _while_ you're supposing I'm silly. Yeah I think 5.5" will be good. I think I'm going to try and get a triple-plate, assuming there is enough room in there. The metallic material will have to do I guess. I am planning on a ~1/2" adaptor plate, then milling the same amount (or however much works I guess) off the bell housing to get the input spline in the right place. Re starting it, I have a couple of ideas, none of which are very good, but we'll see I guess. Thanks! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forcer Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Ever thought about emailing Chris Forsberg, or Drift Emporium? You could ask what they used for their setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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