opinions needed, sourcing a v8,newbie with stupid beginner q

[Drax240z]

I like the comment:

 

At the end of the track the loser doesn't usually jump out of his car and say "yeah but my motor is more effecient". It doesn't work that way.

 

So true!

 

Your point about the V8 path being cheaper for more horsepower, I would totally agree with. Pretty hard to argue that one.

 

For myself, I prefer the smaller (not too small though) more efficient engine. I love inline 6's, and could argue all day about how (in my humble opinion) it is the best engine layout. I-6's seem to last a lot longer, and put up with more abuse than most any other engines I've seen.

 

For some reason (maybe its my love for the cobra and the GT40) I've always had a sweet spot for ford V8's. I once thought that a built 289 with quad weber's would be about the sweetest thing going. Now I know that the gas bills would be astronomical. Still I like the idea of a Ford powered V8Z.

 

HP Tech, I see now that I did misunderstand how I read what you said. Hehe. no hard feelings!

 

Well its good to see this board getting some action.

 

 

 

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Drax240z

1973 240z - L28TURBO transplant on the way!

http://members.xoom.com/r_lewis/datsun.html

[pparaska]

Drax, no biggie, the thread was just heading in a bad direction, so I thought I'd say something.

 

BTW, the reason I chose the unsophisticated "BIG" displacement route (although a 327 isn't that BIG), was that I want low end grunt that is repeatable, easy and trouble free without the "buzz" of a high strung setup (cam choice, gearing, etc.)

 

I have a turbo car that is admittedly not tweaked (except for a spring loaded manual boost controller valve), but I'll tell ya the thing is tempermental about when it wants to have what amount of performance. Ambient temps, the cleanliness of the combustion chambers, etc. have lots to do with how it will jump when I down shift and jump on it. The car in question is a 92 Mitsu Eclipse GSX, running 15 psi boost, through all the stock restrictions. Obviously not a tweaked setup.

 

Now, I'm sure that a well setup turbo or supercharged car with a V6 of 3+ liters will run great at almost any kind of rpm, but I don't want to have to engineer the car to get to that point - I want the easy way out.

 

For me, there is just something special about a large displacement engine that makes the car jump at low rpm (and higher ones of course.) I don't race, but enjoy a fun street car. When I hit the go pedal on the highway, or after shifting into the next gear at less than 2000 rpm, I want to feel LOTS of push on my back. A large displacement engine in a light car is an EASY, yet unsophisticated way to do that. Not that I couldn't build a turbo or supercharged smaller engine to do it, but not as easily or cheaply. I just don't care that it's a 50 year old design - it works and does what I want. Gas mileage? I live 1.5 miles from work, and gas is dirt cheap anyway, compared to life's other costs, in my opinion.

 

So yeah, the old, inefficient pushrod motor is not exciting as an engineering statement, but it will move the car the way I want it to - quickly from just about any rpm in just about any gear, with the A/C compressor running! (Granted, I haven't driven MY conversion, but I've driven others that are similar.) I really don't care that it's not high tech or sophisticated. I deal with high tech stuff at work all day, and I get my fill there.

 

My Eclipse is no fun in stop and go traffic when the A/C compressor is on, or worse yet, cycling from off to on or visce versa. Cubes cure that little problem!

 

A recent drive in a 400 hp (flywheel) V8 240Z with a 5 spd reassured me of my choice. Mashing the gas from anything above 1800 rpm and it threw you back into the seat with authority! And the push didn't give up at some low rpm either - it lasted to 6500 rpm until I let off the gas! If you haven't driven or ridden in a car like that, it's hard to imagine or appreciate.

 

Just my thoughts on why a pushrod V8 isn't such a bad choice. YMMV.

[Drax240z]

Yes, likely a bad direction indeed. No biggie.

 

I suppose I can understand the appeal of having power at all RPM's. Right now I'd settle for it at any RPM. Personally, most of my driving is done at a pretty strung out level. I double clutch every downshift, I keep my engine RPM high, and I usually push the turns hard. I don't push the straights, because I feel turning hard is something that is done much safer on public roads than running at 120+mph.

 

For me, I'd like my power from 3000rpm up. I'm hoping that my setup will put the power there, with still enough sub-3000 to make driving around town (like a normal person) possible.

 

Maybe it goes back to my liking "road racing" more than drag racing. One of the great things about the Z is its ability to have both well covered, but I'm not so concerned with my 1/4 mile times, as I am with stopping well, turning hard, and enjoying my drive. (not that you can't do that with a V8 too!)

 

Somehow, the engine worked its way up to be my first major project on my car. I guess I can't say that straight line acceleration doesn't appeal to me!

 

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Drax240z

1973 240z - L28TURBO transplant on the way!

http://members.xoom.com/r_lewis/datsun.html

 

[This message has been edited by Drax240z (edited July 17, 2000).]

[Guest Anonymous]

Hey guys, I posted my opinion on the six cylinder forum yesterday with no intensions of stepping on any ones toes. I hope I didn't. My point was to play devils advocate but after rereading it I think some may take it the wrong way. I want to clearify my message plus I think it also applies to this thread.

I do know the capabilitys of small displacement motors. My fastest & funest car was a 2.3 turbo powered S.V.O. Mustang. With the normal hop-ups (exhaust, cam, head & manifold porting, ect...) it was unbelievable. Nobody & I mean nobody believed it was a four cylinder that was great. Popping open the hood was a normal procedure. Talk about the looks on there faces. But the cost was also unbelievable. The fastest car I ever went for a ride in was an early V.W. bug with a normaly aspirated 2.3 with duel carbs & no N.O.S. It acually gave me whiplash & was fully streetable with full deluxe interior, stereo, & no fiberglass. It did require higher octane fuel than available at your normal station though. My list could go on. I truely know the capabilitys of small displacement motors. I also witnessed them brake on a regular basis (even the realy well built ones) due to them being exteremley high stressed.

I ran into rough times and lost my Mustang. Now some years later I finaly got my finances together and wanted to build anouther car with the performance of my Mustang (it also handled great & stopped) but now I've learned about budgeting and planing ahead. I needed a car that was as inexpensive as possible, strong, light weight, as safe as possible, could handle & stop great, & most importantly haul a$$. After stumbling across a J.T.R. handbook I found my ticket. I did consider a S.B. Ford (I was alway prefered Fords) but the cost and ease of a S.B. Chevy made me go that route. I also decided that the car had to be simple & low tech like a 73 should. To me thats part of the appeal of a car as old as me. I'll leave most of the high tech to the newer cars.

I got lucky & found a running z with the J.T.R. conversion done & driving. It was pretty rough & the motor had a slight knock but it was cheap & almost rust free. The motor put out the tipical 300 claimed h.p. ( i bet thats a high est.). The z's perfomance was great but I know my Mustang was a little faster even though it weighed a little more. After driving it as a second car for a year (a primary car is a must) I broke it when I was acting like I was 10 years younger so a complete rebuild started and still continues but the light at the end of the tunnel is not only visable but its now getting pretty bright.

Ok now I'm rambling but I do have a point. I'm sure that I'm not the only one on this site thats working within a budget. In fact I'll bet we all are. I also bet that I'm not the only one that has limited time available to work on there cars. I'll also assume that most people on this site want to complete there cars as soon as possable. Its very easy to go overboard when planning a car and the more outragous & different you decide to go the harder & more expensive the car will be to complete. I think that everyone needs to keep this in mind. To me the best part of building my car will be driving it.

I do appreciate the need to be different and difference is what makes the world we live in such an intresting place. For me my car is just what I wanted and its a project I'll be able to complete. Someone elses vision may be different. That does'nt make them wrong or me wrong it just makes us different, keeping things interesting. Just keep in mind what your getting into. I'd like to see everyone complete there cars, not end up selling the partial project at a huge loss or end up parting it out.

Glenn