Guest Anonymous Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 For those of you who have kept an eye on my somewhat erratic posts over the last months - I finally decided what to do with my 1971 240z. My decision was helped along by stumbling across what I considered to be a great deal - a 1989 Mustang rolled with a new clutch, MAC shorty headers, K&N filter - got the complete car for $600 Canadian. Engine ran fine. I'm a busy rural physician with two children under 5 and a working wife so there isn't a lot of spare time but I am picking away at it. Currently redoing the suspension with coilovers, urethane bushings, etc. I think I've found a way to use the stock Mustang clutch cable. I'm mounting a pulley to the 240z pedal box and will also solidly mount the ford clutch cable housing to the Datsun's firewall.I'll then run an extension off the stock cable around this pulley and attatch it to the clutch pedal arm. (Don't worry, I'm using heavy duty high quality stuff). I will drill a row of attatchment points on the clutch pedal arm which will allow different mechanical advantage ratios to be selected. The cable has to move about 2 1/2 ". The Mustang clutch pedal moves 6 1/2". The Datsun clutch pedal moves only about 4 1/2 " so I will have higher pedal effort. I tried initially mounting the entire Ford pedal box into the 240z and using the stock Mustang cable setup. It fit quite well and the brake pedal actually would have hooked up quite easily to the stock master cylinder pushrod with some modification to the Ford brake pedal. However the Ford clutch pedal travels 6 1/2 " which puts it up too high from the floor. I think modifying the Datsun pedal box is going to work better and it looks like it's going to be very straightforward. I'll keep you posted on whether this idea actually works. It could save some money for the Ford conversion. As I said I'm quite busy so it won't be done tomorrow but I thought I'd throw the idea out there and see what kind of response I got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dp351zcar Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 Sounds like a great idea, it will be good to have another way to get the clutch to work. We need more ideas about the ford swaps to keep up with the chevy guys (in number of swaps). Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 I tried this, along with a bunch of other ideas that I had to use the stock cable. Unfortunately, the actual pedal hangers and assembly flezed and the pedal effort was unacceptable. I tried about 6-7 different otions, and none worked. That's why I went Hydrolic. The problem lies in the fact that you have to have the quadrant ABOVE the center of the arc for it to work correctly, and even pulleys will not work effectively. I tried it, and even with a thick rod for the pulley, it still flexed. I even tried a "pull" setup, and it was ridiculously heavy. I could see the front of the dash flex. Hopefully, you can come up with a good way to solve this, as I gave up and just went hydrolic. Glad I did, though, it works great. Let us know what you come up with, I'd be very interested in how it works out. Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 Boy, that surprises me as the pedal box seems to be made of pretty stout stuff. Thanks for the input. I am putting in a cage with a cross member running right across the dash area so maybe I'll run some bracing from the cage to the pulley mount. I'm not using the stock dash - I'm going for the "functional" look with an aluminum dash rivited to a rollcage (I'm doing this for simplicity and plan on using the instrument pod from the Mustang - speedo and tach, etc.)so I am not constricted by the original 240z dash design with regards to setting up a pulley mount. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thurem Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 How about securing the inner cable to pedal stop that also holds the brakelight switch. Then mount the outer cable on the clutch pedal itself, with a pivot so you don't chew up the cable. Obviously this would cause the whole cable to move around when clutch is depressed, so you might want to seal it to the firewall with a flexible boot (ie. leather or rubber). If you don't want to use and cut up the stock ford cable, try a cable from Harly davidson they look really stout and pretty cheap too. Thure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 Is there a reason why you cant use a hydraulic clutch setup?, they realy are far superior to the mechanical/cable type, as they cause a lot less stress on the firewall mounting points and can be made to work easily no matter how big a clutch you put in , by changing piston diameters. If you are only using the cable because you have it, Id strongly recomend investing in a hydraulic setup, its really set and forget, which beats changing broken cables every few weeks, (been there done that:mad . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 I hear you Robzilla - but it goes against my grain to toss away something that works well on the Mustang - "there's gotta be some way to do this..." We'll see. I'll keep you posted. Not a bad idea i.e. solidly mount the cable and push the housing with the pedal but I wonder if the housing is strong enough...and I don't know if that would work at the bellhousing end of things...hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 "Well" in a Mustang app? Umm, as a Mustang owner I can tell you I've snapped two cables and had the plastic "self adjusting" piece implode too. This is often replaced with aluminum and a threaded custom rod on the other end to try and get some adjustment. Heavy duty clutches just make that all worse as the pedal just gets heavier and strains everything along the line. IMO the hydraulic clutch is MUCH nicer and if it could be put on the Mustang I have no doubt people would switch in droves if it were a bolt-in. Those "custom" cables with the adjustment rod aren't cheap either - new setups use a stock cable with an adjuster on the firewall - consider something like that for adjustment unless you want to crawl under the car to do it. How had you planned to setup th eadjustment for the cable? Really, the hydraulic setup is FAR easier and has been done by others. Little bit of hardware and it bolts up like the Z stuff. Master and hydraulic TO with some plumbing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 Okay, okay, I get the message, I'll look seriously at the hydralic setup. Thanks, guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 I am another new guy on the block ,I have been gathering info from this great web site.Sounds like I am at the same spot as you are .I have the motor mounts built and the motor in the hole .I bought a after market clutch cable quaudrant and ajustable hoping to make it work.I was looking through old mesagges and noticed that FIREBERN had said that he had cut of the old peddle and built a new peddle and mount that seemed to work .I was hoping he could shed some light on this subject.If I can come up with anything I will let you know. It is good to see other fellow BC ers like a ford challenge I can not wait for the end result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 Hey Firebern (Bernard) out there in la Belle Province, how about it? Is the cable setup still working? How come you were able to get it to work when Al had so much trouble? Welcome aboard, Bob in Cranbrook! If we both get ours done that will be three 5-0 240's in B.C. - must be a record of sorts! We'll have to have a convention - still there Mike? Also, Mike, you mention in a post a ways back in September that you saw a push-type slave mounted behind the mustang push fork (rather than using a Neal pull-type slave). Could we use the Datsun slave for this? From what I gather looking through past posts we actually only need about 1-1 1/2" movement on teh shift fork... [ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: Dr. Graham ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 cant remember now but i think the push type slave i saw used a different fork and pivot. so it wasnt mounted behind the 5L fork but ahead of it and the pivot and fork were like a 66 mustang where it gets pushed in. wilwood and tilton both make a pull type slave i guess similar to the neal unit. i would need to see FIRE's pics installed again but i think Dan 74_5L and myself both mounted the motor lower and further back so that would have made the clutch linkage more difficult to retain the oem fork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 Hello again I was looking threw the magazine rack and came across a posible answer to our problem.Dec Mustang & Fords there is a kit to put a cable clutch setup in a 65 mustang with a t5 installed. It uses a push rod threw the fire wall into a bracket that has a push pull system and the cable is connected at the stut tower. I wonder if it cant be done inside by the peddle. Depending were the push rod is connected and the different lenghts of the push pull system to make it work.The one in the book is made by WINSOR FOX PERFORMANCE (http://www.windsorfox.com) I went to the site but could not find a picture of it.Some food for thought it can be done I am hoping to try some thoughts this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 That is what I meant by a mechanical setup, the pushrod setup was used on the HQ-HZ holdens, it was a really crap setup, there was a huge amount of fire wall flex, especially with anything better than a stock clutch and they break cables all the time, if you can get around throwing out a perfectly good cable then id still recomend a hydraulic clutch, just tell yourself, half of it is already on the Zed and wouldnt it be a waste to throw that out to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firebern Posted November 10, 2001 Share Posted November 10, 2001 Cheers, yes I did use the cable setup, it was a lot cheaper. I can put a drawing of my setup on my web site, try this link next week: www.geocities.combern_on_yahooCableLinkage.html Basically, I made "squared" U shape bracket and bolted it using the existing master cylinder screw holes on the firewall. I cut the top part of the pedal and drilled a new hole to put a 3/8" SS bolt as a center of rotation I used a couple of very big washers to position the pedal in the bracket. I also made my own oval shaped quadrant on which the cable would sit. The more you pull, the longer the cable gets pulled, it is not linear, I got 1"1/4 out of it, which is more than plenty. The clutch never worked good when it was in this 88 Mustang but now it works fine in my Z. I did my own custom length cable out of aircraft grade steel cable 1/8 inch. It holds well but I didn't drive it a lot less than 500km. I test drove it with the engine but I don't like driving around with an unfinished project. I got ot replace the suspension and make a custom interior (carpet, console, stereo). If you can, try to get an adjustable cable that way you can eleminate the slack that builds up after time. I did find another shop that sells the hydraulic kit for 300$US or 180$ w/o the master cylinder(cause I already had bougth a Wilwood Master), I'll look through my mails to get which shop it was. I heard hydraulic was more reliable too. The liquid lasts longer than the cable. Dimensions are not on the drawing cause I didn't take any but I can take some measurements next weekend. Hope this helps, Fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 10, 2001 Share Posted November 10, 2001 Guyon's racing in Calgary http://www.guyonracing.com sells a Tilton 1" or 7/8" master cylinder for $108 Canadian and a Wilwood pull-type slave for about $80 Canadian. I think I'm going to go this way - all things said and done it isn't a lot of money for a good setup. Thanks again for all the input; this site rocks...Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firebern Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 I paid sligthly more for a Wilwood setup. It's a good deal, good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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