Guest larkja Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 I'm thinking of selling my '73z: Here's a partial list of the new items: 1. 6 month new Rebello 3.0L w/ 9.8:1 compression (so I can use pump gas) 2. Recently rebuilt triple 40 webers (500 miles ago). 3. New Corbeau racing seat (driver) 4. Headers 5. Borla stainless exhaust 6. 16x7 star rims with Yoko AVS Intermediate tires - 225/50/16s all the way around. 7. New MSD box 8. New Holley electric fuel pump with pressure regulator (presently set at 4psi) 9. 5 sp 10. 3.7 diff Body is straight but has a rust spot on passenger floorboard that I patched. It's under the carpet so cannot be seen. The paint shows well (that shiney persimmen color - not the burnt orange) but upon closer inspection has some small bubbling below the doors. It really is a nice looking car. In the last year, I have literally spent $8K+ on the motor and misc items. The mechanic has conservatively rated the motor at 270hp (flywheel) but I have never had it on a dyno. So what do you think I should ask for the car? Thanks Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest larkja Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 Also new brakes all around: 1. Front cross-drilled with ss brake lines 2. 4 piston calipers 3. Rear aluminum drums with new shoes Thanks Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest larkja Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 Check out a couple pics: http://www.vettechrelief.com/240/front.jpg http://www.vettechrelief.com/240/leftrear.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 Why would you be selling it? Sounds like you really have a lot of time invested in some quality mods. BTW, I must say you have good taste. Coincidentally, my car is almost identical to yours in terms of setup and even color. See as follows: Your Specs: 1. 6 month new Rebello 3.0L w/ 9.8:1 compression (so I can use pump gas) 2. Recently rebuilt triple 40 webers (500 miles ago). 3. New Corbeau racing seat (driver) 4. Headers 5. Borla stainless exhaust 6. 16x7 star rims with Yoko AVS Intermediate tires - 225/50/16s all the way around. 7. New MSD box 8. New Holley electric fuel pump with pressure regulator (presently set at 4psi) 9. 5 sp 10. 3.7 diff 11. Front cross-drilled with ss brake lines 12. 4 piston calipers 13. Rear aluminum drums with new shoes My Specs: 1. 3 year old Rebello 3.0L w/ 9.8:1 compression (so I can use pump gas) 2. Weber 45mmDCOEs w/ 38mm chokes 3. New Corbeau racing seat (driver) 4. Nismo Headers 5. 2.5" exhaust (shop made) 6. 15x7 Panasports w/ Dunlop SP8000 225/50/15s all the way around. (soon to be Kumho's) 7. New MSD6AL box 8. New Holley RED electric fuel pump with pressure regulator (presently set at 4psi) 9. Rebuilt '82 280ZX 5 sp 10. Rebuilt 4.11 R180 diff 11. ClutchMasters 4-puck racing clutch 12. Ligthened flywheel 13. Autometer Gauges 14. Fully rebuilt suspension w/ adjustable coil-overs and 5-way Tokico's. Polyurethane all around. 15. Front/Rear sway bars 16. ss brake lines 17. 4 piston calipers My car is orange, but not persimmon, more along the burnt look. You can check it here: www.geocities.com/dave240z BTW, 270hp flywheel is probably about right. I've seen some dyno sheets from Rebello on some other 3.0L and they ranged from ~270-290hp depending on their level of build, cam ,etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest larkja Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Nice car Dave. I guess I'm a bit frustrated. I took the car to Dandos and literally with the purchase of the webers, installation, rebuild, tuning, MSD, fuel pump, reulator, and misc hoses and connectors, I was looking at close to $2K. I spoke with Andy and he told me that I would have some top-end problems because I only have 40s not 45s or 50s. I don't understand this. My little dual SUs only had 30mm openings and went like snot with the proper jets. Now I have triple webers each with two jets feeding into separate intakes - so basically six jets into the engine. Why would the engine stumble at lower RPMs, go like snot (with some stumbling) until about 5500RPM and then plateau. It sounds like either I have the wrong jetting or it's been tuned incorrectly. But Dave Rebello recommends Andy. Thanks for your help Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 sounds like conspiracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest larkja Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Thanks for the information. So, anybody want to buy some (basically) brand new triple webers with intake, linkage, air horns, and re-useable filter elements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Although I don't think it's a conspiracy, Andy and Dave do seem to work in tandem with each other. Andy sends people seeking engines to Rebello and Dave sends people seeking installs to Andy. Mostly I think this is because each guy specializes in a different thing. Andy works on cars but doesn't want to get involved in building engines and Dave simply wants to build engines and not get involved with maintenance and installations. Makes sense from a business standpoint in "doing what you do best and letting the others do the rest". Webers are a tricky animal though, as you're finding out the hard way. Andy is right though, 40mm carbs are a bit small for a 3.0L, especially if you have any sort of cam in it. This is the main reason I run 45s on mine. It's difficult to explain in e-mail the reasons why a triple setup of carbs may actually flow less than a dual SU setup, but suffice to say this can be the case. In terms of your hesitation and what not, it's all in the tuning of the webers. The beauty of webers is that you can tune them for all kinds of rpms since they use so many jets. But, this is also their main problem as it makes tuning them all the more complicated. My experience with Dando's is that they're not particularly adept at tuning triple setups, but then not many people are. It's sort of a lost art. Peter seemed to be the best at it, but last I heard he no longer works there. Dando's still does stuff the old fashioned way from what I can tell by simply listening to the engine for changes. What really needs to occur is a rich/lean test using EGTs as well as tuning on a dyno. If you're looking for just a simple solution, I'd say go out and get a set of big bore SUs and use those instead of webers. They'll cost you a bunch less in the long run, and will offer more mid-range power as well although they'll probably fall short ~20hp in the top-end when compared to properly setup webers. But for simplicity, the 20hp sacrifice may be more than worth it. At any rate, I don't think this is a reason to sell your car. It sounds like it's quite fixable with a little investment of time and money on your part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast240z Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Larkja, I too would recommend big-bore SUs for a street car. However,... You do already have the triple setup, and it is very possible to make it run correctly. From your reference to Dave and Andy, I'm assuming you are in the bay area somewhere. So I will share one of my greatest speed secrets with you. Put away ~$400-$500 and call Ken Murillo @ Classic Motorsports in Santa Rosa. He has been tuning my race car for a few years now and I swear by his skill with triples on the Datsun. The cost is a little high, but he does his work on the dyno, and does it right the first time. After installing my fresh engine this year I went to Ken for tuning, he pulled an additional 55hp out of an already tremendously powerful engine. Best of luck. Michael Classic MotorSports (707) 584-3762 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest larkja Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Michael, thank you for the tip. I will most definitely give him a call. I'm on the verge of going with the big bore SUs but will give your shop a call first before investing the $1,000 ($800 for the big bores and $200 for installation). I spoke with Dave this afternoon and he indicated that there is not much that can be done with 40s vs the 45s or 50s. I'm just tired of sinking money into the car. I just want to enjoy it. Thanks again Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Don't get me wrong, I'm a triple man myself, but he has 40mm carbs which are just too small for a built 3.0L. This leaves just two options. 1) sell the 40s and buy a set of 45s and go through all the same headaches regarding tuning a second time. And I agree that dyno tuning is the only way to go. (Thanks for the tip on another option Michael) 2) get a set of big-bore SUs which will flow plenty for a built 3.0L although they'll fall short on the top end by 10-20hp. But mid-range power will be much improved compared to the triples as will driveability and tunability. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest larkja Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Thanks for all the advice. I spoke with Ken and he also indicated that I would have to go with 45s. I sent an e-mail to Dave Rebello for some advice. If 45s are too much, I'll just go with the big bores and call it a day. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 properly set 40's will work decent on the street- but they are too small for high rpm. i have a friend with a .040 L28 and i've got it running pretty well on the 40's pulls real hard to 6500 , 3.90's etc, and no soft spots. midsize cam - header etc. we both thought it was fast until he raced my 5.0 convt Z... no contest. i guess thats why i'm installing a 5.0 into his other z now! you can taper bore the carbs and install larger chokes but that may cost more than new 45's. FYI i run 50's on a "little" L16. although it does rev to 9000+ Kenny (ken murillo) definintely knows what he's doing. the race car i have was maintained by him and Volare for a year to take it to the runoffs. i see ken at all the Nasport races, excellent work and the price is reflected in that. to save $ take the jets out and call overseasauto.com ask for Jim and he can tell you what jetting it should be likely at you can start there and see how it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast240z Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Larkja, just noticed this, thought you might be interested... 44 Mikunis on ebay Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast240z Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Sorry, let me try that again... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1808995288&r=0&t=0 Sorry for the lack of a hyper-link, it appears to be too long for the lists utility. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest larkja Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Thanks for all the replies and link to the Mikunis. I'm going to go with the big bore SUs: 1. Better driveablility 2. Easier to maintain 3. Lower long-term cost I spoke with Dave and he indicated there would only be about a 20hp difference between the two - 260hp vs 280. I doubt if I would really even notice it. He also recommended the big bores for all-around driveability and maintenance. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 ohh. So many fast Z's in NorCal... You guys all better make it to the April 6th Rio Vista meet put on by the HybridZ guys DavyZ and DanJuday right?! No excuses! I'm going to set up a caravan from the san jose area to there, so you guys better come! Back to the subject. I've always heard about big bore SU's. I believe Mike Yoes does that at Rebellos right? It would be very intersting to a set in person:) Also I may be wrong but didn't Jag's have a bigger bore SU that could be bolted on? Like your going to find a jag with SU's in the bay area but trying to remember. Hope to see 240dave and Jim there, no excuses! Everyone else too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest larkja Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 Can you provide me with a bit more info. re. the Rio Vista get together? Thanks Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest larkja Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 I know Mike well - helped me install the motor, swap trannies, diff., clutch, etc. Yes he does have the big bores and is quite pleased with them. He will be helping me install once they're done. Thanks Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jcp240z Posted March 8, 2002 Share Posted March 8, 2002 I'll also vouch for Dave's big bore SU's on a Rebello 3.0L motor. I think mine were the 5th set Dave made. Really made a difference. Larkja, if you are still wondering why the SU's vs. the 40mm Webers. The SU's are about 44mm. Due to the intake setup the intake pulse for each track gets exclusive use of the carb. One intake port opens and draws through the SU then closes. The next opens and closes, then the third intake opens and closes and the whole thing repeats. There are losses due to the bends and turbulance for the SU's but one good thing is that the air column is always moving. When the port opens the moving air column starts forcing air in. With the webers, each port has it's own 40mm port. One draw back is that the air column slows and speeds up. The port opens, air is drawn in getting the column moving. Then the port closes, the column has to stop for the time it takes for the other ports to have their cycles. The 40's work great on a 2.4L and even a 2.8L but just not enough on a 3.0L. Also the Big Bore SU's use 50mm throttle plates but I believe the total cross section is about 48~49mm due to throttle shaft thickness and throttle plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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