Guest Anonymous Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 OK. Before you guys want to crucify me, please hear me out. Several here at Hybrid have helped me out and given me their skinny on a fuel injection management system. I have just about been convinced that I need true datalogging to take advantage of the system. Well, I spoke with the guru at Kinsler injection today. I figured these guys probably have the skinny on all the aftermarket systems. One thing is for certain: they require true datalogging in a good system. Of all the systems they have worked with (Haltech, TECII, Motec, SpeedPro, etc.) they choose SpeedPro for any engine. They say it will virtually tune itself and is the only system that is really time proven. Hmmmm. Thing is, to get coil packs, crank trigger and wide band closed loop operation you are looking at $2500-3000 and a system that is not housed in one unit. Ouch. I know I should just make up my mind. I can't afford $3k. Heck, I can't really afford $1k-1.5k but the wonderful world of credit makes it possible Anyone out there used or know of anyone that has used Speedpro? I simply can't believe that with all of the systems on the market, there isn't one that blends all of the good stuff into one package: multiple auxiliary outputs, crank-trigger, coil packs, datalogging and laptop interface WITH hand controller, (insert your favorite function here), etc. Truth is, if I could find that imaginary system, I would pretty much pay any half-way decent price to get it. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 I think that the Haltech E6K is a good option and should fit the bill nicely . It has good fuel control features and a simple to use software system . It has decent datalogging as well as crank trigger capabilties. I think they are in the ballpark $$ wise as well. You may be able to find a good Tec-II used for a decent price . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Yes, TECII is at the top of my list right now. Wolf is running a close second. If I could combine the two, I would be one happy camper! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 SpeedPro time proven?! That system has been out what 3 years? If that? Electromotive has been around FAR longer and has some pretty awesome datalogging as well as waste fire and coil packs. Pricey though and I've heard mixed reviews. DFI and Haltech have also been around longer than SpeedPro. To say the SpeedPro is the only time proven system is pretty funny All systems have pluses and minuses - there's nothing perfect. The Motec might have everything you want but costs gazillions! At some point you've got to settle on "good enough" and just go with a system. Try finding out if there's anyone in your area experienced with a particular system. If you run into problems and the local guys know a totally different system you'll be kicking yourself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 before you buy try the sample software from the makers websites.haltech and speedpro have free downloads.the haltech is dos based but it doesnt take long to get the hang of it.i am thinking of running haltech on my z turbo because i got some free coil-on plug coils and a harness from a 2000 model f150 pick up so i have all the connectors i need to build a nice harness.just got a free laptop too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 OK, guys, thanks for the input. I guess Kinsler might have a reason for backing Speedpro or they just plain like it. The tops for me at this point is TecII but I just keep coming back to the Wolf. There are my choices. Now I just have to bite the bullet. THAT, however, is my problem I won't post on this again. I know I sound like a broken record. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 I found an on-line retailer selling complete TECII systems, with Wintec software and your choice of trigger wheel and map sensor for $1699. I think this is close to the SDS system once you add on all the extras you need. I don't know about the others. You can also download the Wintec software for free from Electromotive's 'secret' web page (no more stupid, expensive licensing agreements!). Unfortunately, I don't have url's to either of those sites here at work, but I'll get them over the weekend and post them on Monday. I've played around with the Wintec software (don't have a TEC II yet) and it has a lot of interesting features and looks pretty straight forward to use. Plus, you can share your .bin files and data logs with others for comparisons. A good forum for TECII can be found at www.vishnuperformance.com. Go to forums and select vishnu engine management. Vishnu Performance sells TEC II kits for Subarus and Miata's but the subjects discussed in the forum are typically universal to all cars running TEC II systems. Sorry if this is old news, but I just started following the forums on Hybridz. Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Nigel, I would love that information. Especially the link for the online retailer. Thanks, Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 $1699 isnt "close" to the pricing we got on SDS. the loaded F system with coil paks and 2 bar map etc ended up around $1200 to me $500 isnt in the same pricing area.. and for $1700 does that even include the coil paks from Electromotive? at this point who has a TEC2 or other FI thats outperforming a SDS one? (in our category) ------------------ Mike mike@fonebooth.com http://www.outlaw-brakes raceparts and brake upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 quote: Originally posted by idealz: ....I simply can't believe that with all of the systems on the market, there isn't one that blends all of the good stuff into one package: multiple auxiliary outputs, crank-trigger, coil packs, datalogging and laptop interface WITH hand controller, (insert your favorite function here), etc. Truth is, if I could find that imaginary system, I would pretty much pay any half-way decent price to get it...Craig Craig, Sounds like your ship has come in (theoretically)...all you have to do is invent that "Imaginary System" & the World will be your Oyster! If you're wanting that kind of a system imagine there are probably millions of individuals out there thinking the same thing. I know you cant just wave a magic wand & presto....but any invention begins w/a need....or just an idea! Necessity is the Mother of Invention! Now, where did I put my magic wand? Kevin, (Yes,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 SCCA: Good question. Still, if I were going to go without datalogging I think I would have to try the Wolf setup. Perhaps not, though. $1200 is very good for the whole setup including coil packs. What about the machining for the crank trigger? The issue that I have run across is that if you are gonna have a digital system then you should be able to get and analyze the data from it. Kevin: You are correct. If I had a bit more knowledge in this area I might even think about it more. Yes, the thought did actually cross my mind. If Z cars were my ONLY business, I would probably jump right in. Why re-invent the wheel when others are so close, though? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Personally I would not go with the Wolf, the high, low datalogging is a joke . Either pay extra $$ for Tec-II datalogging or buy the SDS. Many very well tuned fast cars use SDS, I don't think the datalogging is worth $700 or more. Datalogging is a very nice option, but it isn't the end of the world if you don't have it . I haven't checked the price on the Haltech E6k, but it has crank fire and decent datalogging . Check into this one !! "People have biased opinions, when it's not their money they are spending" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 It is not the datalogging of the Wolf that I like. I don't even consider Wolf to have datalogging at this point. I like the fact that their new units (due out next month) have a boost-timer built-in, multiple auxiliary outs and the hand controller (which SDS has). Memory cartridges are also a nice feature. Datalogging is left up to the others. Your point is taken about the SDS, though. The price is definitely right. Craig Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Well, if you look at the SDS website, the base price for the EM-3F is $1300. Plus, you have to buy about $300 in sensors and stuff. That's only $100 less than the TECII. If you got a special deal, then great, but if you compare advertised prices, it's not such a bargin. And that TECII price I quoted is for everything (but not engine specific mounting brackets and such). Any one of these systems will make your engine run and run well. I've only ever considered the TECII and SDS because they seem to be the two most popular systems. The TECII does have several capabilities that the SDS does not and when I compare advertised prices and see the TECII for only $100 more, I'll probably choose the TECII when the time comes. Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 NIgel, i arranged a 20% discount for hybridz members last month so subtract that off your pricing........ Mike ------------------ Mike mike@fonebooth.com http://www.outlaw-brakes raceparts and brake upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 Hey, I'm just thrilled that Electromotive has dropped that damned software pricing! I get copies of their software "backdoor" but one of the biggest reasons I didn't go with their stuff on my Mustang was the cost of the software - it was nutz! Since then I've been getting it from a friend but still - this is awesome news. Mike, take a look at the TECII software. The datalogging is damned nice - graphs and all done in a manner that can actually be read (and that was th eold DOS version - I've not yet loaded up the WINTEC). I don't mind the laptop requirement and their shop is literally just up the road.... Hrm, perhaps it won't be a FelPro system put on my Z next Winter after all Still, I'll be interested to hear how th eSDS works out for folks with V8s. There are times when too many bells and switches to pull can just mess you up rather than help and the TEC certainly has zillions of those! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonZ Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 I'm biting the same bullet. Nobody mentioned DFI gen 7. Though it is not out yet, on paper it sounds pretty nice. Software based sequential, and wideband O2. http://www.mrgasket.com/dfinew.htm#DFI I called a place locally about the SpeedPro and he told me that DFI gen 7 was due out in 2 weeks. That was about a month ago. Price was supposed to be 1600 with wiring harness. I haven't had time to get back to him yet. Anyone else interested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 even though i have seen tec2 units mounted to roll cages on off-road race cars i dont like the fact that tec2 ecm mounts underhood-it gets up tp 115 degrees where i live plus water in winter.i think the ecm should be inside car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 DemonZ: I am willing to hear about the DFI a bit more. The software looks sweet! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonZ Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 IdealZ I just talked to a guy today who said they did testing on a DFI prototype last week. Said they tested in a Corvette and a Cobra (vert). He thought it was awesome. He sounded like the salesman but claimed to be a customer. The guy had a Speedpro in his Cobra, and said the DFI Gen 7 was more user friendly and had a ton of drivers for everything you could want. Said it had a lot more features. (I don't know if that makes it more complex to tune) He raved about the 30min datalogging. The main draw for me was the sequential and wideband O2. He seemed to be enthusiastic about everything. Said all the new boxes are sequential. When we talked about pricing he assumed it would cost more than SpeedPro (2600). I was quoted 1600 DFI by the shop owner. They must be having problems with the software because the feature set was slated for some time. Keeping my fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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