Guest Anonymous Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 Does anyone have any thoughts on using propane as an alternative to gasoline? The advantages appear to be higher octane rating than pump gas, even air/fuel mixture, and lower emissions. However, the range issue and safety has me concerned. BTW here is an interesting site: null [ August 08, 2001: Message edited by: Paragod ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 I think the saftey issue could be solved with a parameter of steel encasing the tank. The motors last longer as I said in another post due to less dilution of the oil. Its clean burning as you mentioned, range I think you'd have to find a LGP group to find out what you might get out of a certain sized tank. You can run more compression, but it has less heat energy, so you need to get the motor hopped up pretty good to make up for the difference in energy between Gas and LPG. Just some thoughts, but it'd be neat to see it done. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 Yeah, damn near had the worlds first turbo propane Z. 110 octane stuff. Its common on vehicles up here to run on propane. My dads truck is propane powered. Oil stays golden brown for 3000miles every single time! Its such a clean burning fuel. Propane is 10% less efficient than gasoline when burned, but the extra octane really helps you build an engine to make up for those deficencies. As far as tanks and propane goes, its harder to ignite than gasoline. (hence the higher octane rating) Less explosive, less volitile, less flammable. From a safety standpoint it is superior than gasoline. I does require hardened valve seats, and can be hard on head gaskets however. (dries them out apparently) As well, the tanks tend to weight more than a similarly sized gasoline tank. (needs to be thicker to hold the high pressure) I ruled it out for my Z mostly because of the weight of the tank. For trucks or other cars where weight isn't a concern, it rules! (almost every taxicab in canada is propane powered, its also a lot cheaper than gasoline) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 LPG is a good alternative. The weight of the tank is a drawback, but if it is mounted in the car you can get stainless steel tanks that weigh bugger all (around 9kg for an 80ltr tank.), i dont know if there legal in America though. It is hard wearing on standard valves and valve seats, because it doesnt produce any carbon build up on the valve seats to cushion the impact, but if your running it on a standard engine you can get a an additive (basically tranny fluid) that is drawn in through a vacuum line on the inlet manifold. There is a couple of twin turboed 351 Clevo's in my area that are run purely on LPG, and they FLY! Check out a couple of the motors on this site, Gas Research Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zpeed Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 My cousin is currently building his ford 289v8 turbo to have gas research, which he has done alot of reseach about how he can get it to work the best etc.... he says gas research will give him alot of power, maybe even more than normal normal petrol, but i'm not sure... if you do it right, its worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 How about those Carbon fiber tanks? Have they been used in cars yet? Properly built a 110 oct engine should put out at least or more HP than gasoline. What about a power additive like NO2 and propane mixing should be very even. Or port injected propane? Just some thoughts hitting the rock inside my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jason Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 I had a thought that propane injection would be a good use for a turbo. Maybe you could just have propane kick in with an extra injector under boost. You'd have the advantage of higher octane as well as the substantial cooling effect as propane changes from liquid to gas. When not under boost, you could just have the car run pure gasoline, so you wouldn't need to carry a big propane tank around. I think propane is about 140psi at room temperature, so you might be able to get away with a normal fuel injector to spray propane. You might have problems with the injector icing up, although I don't think it would do any harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 Propane guru Franz Hofmann e-mailed me with a reply to a safety question concerning propane tanks. He says they can take quite a shot before rupturing, has seen a school bus t-boned by a car (who's driver was killed) directly hitting the propane tank. The tank absorbed the impact by deforming, with no serious injuries by the 20 kids inside the bus. The carbon fiber tanks are attractive as far as weight is concerned, but I dunno bout them taking a hit like that! Hofmann said he's seen or helped with several propane powered Zs, and reccommends 2 smaller tanks, 1-30" x 16" and 1-30" x 12", fits nicely inside the cargo area. I am now even more seriously thinking about this conversion, since the Chev 350 engine I have is kinda high in compression (about 10.8:1) and propane would pretty much exempt me from smog legalities (as far as I am aware of). I wonder what the handling characteristics would be like with that kind of setup with all that weight in the back? Can anyone say "snap oversteer" [ August 09, 2001: Message edited by: Paragod ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 I've heard the claims that Gasresearch throttle bodies can give more power than normal pump gas, but i think that its based on an octane rating only comparison and not taking into acount the real pro's and con's of using LPG, but on a well tuned engine i think the differances would be negligable. Ive never heard of a carbon fibre tank, does the company making them have a homepage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Adkins Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 I saw a webpage from someone in Europe who had a propane tank that fit in the spare tire well in the trunk.... I wonder if those type of tanks are available here in the US? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 Composite tanks are used all the time industrially for shipping inert gasses, etc. I doubt you'll ever see a non-inert substance in one, because though they are strong and light, they are brittle. I don't think you'd want one on a car. (because of cost, and because of brittleness) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 If Compressed Natural Gas is the topic, a bunch of people here where I work have done some of this (along with Lincoln Composites). The tanks are Carbon Fiber/glass fiber/epoxy with an outer casing. They had to take a bullet shot to pass muster. To read about this, here's a link: http://www.jhuapl.edu/programs/trans/ANGV.htm Here's a technical paper that the two organizations authored (Need Adobe Acrobat reader): http://www.lincolncomposites.com/techpapers/ngv_98_iss.pdf Pretty cool stuff. Hmm, maybe a blown SBC on CNG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Rich Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 Out here (Texas) you see vehicles that have been converted to propane/LPG fuel all over the roads - and a high percentage of them are big mutha work trucks - crew cab 4X4s and such, so there must not be any problem with horsepower and/or torque! In fact, not long ago the State of Texas started an innitiative to convert a certain percentage of their state-owned vehicles to propane fuel, and those state pool vehicles rack up a huge amount of mileage, so reliability has to be there too. I also wonder if some of the same spun aluminum tank forming technology that's used in the manufacture of 3000+ psi rated SCUBA tanks might not be applicable? Probably not as light as CF/Kevlar composites, but should be lots cheaper. Just random thoughts bouncing around - I've always wanted to try Ethanol mixes, too! "Lead me not into Temptation, I'm getting there just fine on my own!" Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Adkins Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Here's link to a UK site with a pretty thorough explanation of tanks and components: http://www.aginternational.fsnet.co.uk/components.html It also shows the "toroidal tank" that fits in the spare tire well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Thanks all for the info. All things considered, the conversion is going to happen. Once the engine is installed (will be awhile, bodywork you know ) I'll put the car on a chassis dyno and share the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drewz Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 I have just installed the tank in the back of my 4x4 chev running a 454 .30 over with a 6 inch lift and 36" tires. I worked at a propane conversion shop for a year doing conversions and the owner was Glen Sali, look in the guinness book for worlds fastest propane powered car an d he should still be the holder a sfar as I know. It is not uncommon to get 400,000 and upwards of 600,000 KMS on a motor on propane since there are no deposits left behind after it is burned. It is very safe since there is a very narrow ratio of air to LPG during which it is combustible. Propane in the tank is mostly liquid but when it enters the injection head it is a gas as it is warmed via a heater hose evaporator since the liquid is not useable as a fuel. I have the use dkit in the garage I am installing into the truck next weekend so if anyone wants I can take pics of the system and its simplicity and email them. The propane flow is controlled via a vacum diaphram on the evap. unit and is adjustable. For more mileage less power you turn the set screw in a bit for more power the reverse is true. It is a great fuel alternative IMO too bad it gets taxed to death!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 In the FWIW category, there was a book written about 20 years ago by Jay Storer title (PROPANE CONVERSIONS). It has a lot of good information and is recommended. One of the most knowledgeable in the US regarding Propane/turbo and CNG is Ak Miller. He's in SoCal and I have known him over 30 years. One advantage not mentioned so far, are the "G" forces in a turn. Primarily, off road racing used LPG to good advantage. Also some boats used it for the pounding on the water. Carburetors can flood in turns, etc. For years, I have driven a 2-turbo SBC (355) in a custom 55 Chev Cameo. The tanks are hidden between the fenders and bed. My latest project is a 500 Cad for the truck. (Immediately after I finish the LT-1 install into my 77'Z. Tanks are a disadvantage, but the tradeoffs are there. Cheers Carroll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.