Guest Anonymous Posted September 24, 2001 Share Posted September 24, 2001 You have a nice car man. I wanted to ask you, how do you like it? I've owned 2 V8z's and now 2 87 GN's. I loved the v8's raw acceleration and with good springs and struts they both handled like awsome go carts. but hated the buzzyness, how loud they are and on the freeway I always wanted another gear. The grand national drive train kicks major ass with very little modifications and a support network second to none on the internet. they are just to big and boxy though, they can be made to handle but it also costs a lot of money. Wondering how you like it. Is it your daily driver, with the r200 how is it on the freeway, did the tta thdp fit ok or was it a bitch, how about the intercooler do you think a v4 or v2 would fit? Does the car hook up at all or just fries the tires down the strip, I've noticed V8z's just don't seem to do what you'd think they would at the strip. I heard someone fitted a manual trans to the GN in a z but didn't like it, did you hear about that? anyway I'm thinking this might be the best of both worlds just wanted to get your insight. there is an 87 motor in the local LA paper w/ low miles for $1800 at the moment. TIA PNagel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted September 24, 2001 Share Posted September 24, 2001 Thanks and I will resist the temptation not to write a book on this reply . quoteI wanted to ask you, how do you like it? I've owned 2 V8z's and now 2 87 GN's. I loved the v8's raw acceleration and with good springs and struts they both handled like awsome go carts. but hated the buzzyness, how loud they are and on the freeway I always wanted another gear. Not sure which particular buzziness you are referring to, but it sounds like you did not have an OD tranny and depending on the final drive, the engine could be very busy at speed. I also found that most hi-perf mufflers need about a foot of tailpipe to get rid of the drone and a muffler in the stock location just does not make it possible. quote The grand national drive train kicks major ass with very little modifications and a support network second to none on the internet. they are just to big and boxy though, they can be made to handle but it also costs a lot of money. I am not a fan of the Buick car and other similar cars, but that drivetrain is absolutely magical. Yes, you can make a Regal handle well and the GNX was evidence of that but you just do not try to compare it to say a Vette. quoteWondering how you like it. Is it your daily driver, with the r200 how is it on the freeway, did the tta thdp fit ok or was it a bitch, how about the intercooler do you think a v4 or v2 would fit? Does the car hook up at all or just fries the tires down the strip, I've noticed V8z's just don't seem to do what you'd think they would at the strip. It is not my daily driver because it does not have to be and as such I have taken liberty with that. I would say given equal HP at 400, the GN drivetrain makes a better daily driver than a V-8. No Flames, Please. Having built and a Scarab and a JTR and used them as daily drivers, that is my opinion. I had a 3.54 R-200 and with the .67 OD and lockup, the car idled down the highway to the tune of 23mpg, despite 400+RWHP. The THDP TTA DP was just a bolt-on, but remember it wasonly about 8" long off the turbo. I had a shop mandrel bend 3" SS to finish the DP. GNers are hung up on keeping their cars "stock appearing" and do not want to bother with an FMIC. I think putting an I/C between the engine and the radiator makes no sense and since the Z had lots of room, the only choice for me was an FMIC. Only way I would put an I/C in the stock location is if I was doing an air-water I/C. I run consistent low-mid 1.60s with a best of 1.55 on DRs. No traction problems. Flame Suit On As for how V-8s perform at the track, here is my opinion. Traction problems aside, there are a lot of folks who do not seem to realize that not all V-8s are born equal. It is not unusual to see 2 SBCs and have one run 14.5 and the other 12.0 because one is a garden-variety 2-bbl motor with 1.72 heads and the other is a 350 with 2.02 heads. Just because it is a V-8 with big cubes does not mean it will make a Z go fast or at least as fast as you would expect.Flame suit off. That statement will probably irk a few, but...oh well. quoteI heard someone fitted a manual trans to the GN in a z but didn't like it, did you hear about that? Did not hear about that one. The manual tranny will work, but you have to be careful with your choice of gearing. The Buick as you know is a low-revver and so a 3.30 1st-gear combined with a 3.70 LSD just will not work. HTH Damn, I did end writing a book [ September 24, 2001: Message edited by: Scottie-GNZ ] [ September 24, 2001: Message edited by: Scottie-GNZ ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 24, 2001 Share Posted September 24, 2001 I'll toss in my .04 having seen Scottie's car firsthand, buildingowning a V8Z, and loving the GN drivetrain Friends of mine have been into GNsTTAs for years and I've nearly bought a GN more than once. However GNs tend to handle badly, don't have great interiors where longevity is concerned, and nowadays finding a good one is tough. They all seem to have trans issues for some reason too. Love that drivetrain though - talk about power potential! The Z on the other hand swallows an 8 with no problems using parts you can get easily - no real fabrication. The torque is incredible and if geared right it will do fine on the highway, I love a stick! MPG will probably be worse than the GN drivetrain but can be decent if you stick to an OEM type motor with EFI and overdrive. Exhaust drone I'll handle with additional muffling - I don't mind losing a little power to do it Nothing beats feeling a motor go into boost though and the spool of a turbo is magic. Scottie's car makes almost too much power to hook on the street when the turbo spools up. If he keeps his foot out of it he can putter around fine but when he smacks it the rear breaks loose just like a V8 car does. An auto has got to make drag racing easier and traffic too but I like shifting. All in all I don't think you'd lose going either way. $1800 is cheap and getting a V8 with the potential of the GN would be tough (impossible?) at that price. You'll still have to have the trans gone through and the intercoolers you're looking at aren't cheap either, maybe a turbo upgrade? There's more fabrication involved in the GN swap too so there's plusses and minuses to both the GN and V8. Never heard of a stick GN drivetrain having been done yet but I'd bet it wouldn't be bad once rolling. Unfortunatly launching it would be slower than an auto that can be spooled on the line. I don't think you'd lose much boost on shifts but without someone having actually done it it's tough to say for sure. If I had a second Z to do, and I've been tempted I'll admit, I think I'd either make it an injectedblown Ford, a GN turbo 6, or a ZXT motor. It would be a really tough choice! Wish I had a bigger garage.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted September 24, 2001 Share Posted September 24, 2001 ive discussed this with a couple of folks who have had run the gnx drivetrain/car, the stick gnx that is. they also say yes it can be done, but you better be the fastest gun in the west when it comes to shifting hard, that motor spins to redline really fast up to a 5200redline, i would love me a gnx/muncie combo, donno, im really fond of muncies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 24, 2001 Share Posted September 24, 2001 Eh, wouldn't sweat the X in GNx. In the case of a swap candidate the GNX turbo isn't one I'd pick. Just get any 86,87 GN drivetrain and put a couple of tweaks to it and you'd be fine. The ceramic turbo in the GNX isn't one I'd want to run. Heh, 5200RPM is a pretty low redline. Scottie - can it be raised much? Is it worth it? If it's that low then perhaps an auto really is best with some tall gears to force the motor to pull long and hard. Hrm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted September 24, 2001 Share Posted September 24, 2001 FL327, a Muncie behind a GN engine would be awesome until you get over 100mph then you run into the problem I have been facing. If you run a "normal" tire, say 24.8" diameter, a 3.54 and keep the RPMs reasonable at 5400, you would have a whopping 109+mph top speed. Bumping it up to a 26" tire, you top out at 115+mph. With a 3.36, you get 115+ and 121+. Of course, the problem is easily corrected with some ported heads, a mild cam upgrade and 6000RPM redline. Now you are approaching 575+ lb/ft of torque through the stock suspension . I wonder if GM had a clue what they had when they bred this little jewel? Picture this. The GM engine gurus just finished the design of the "new" 262" small block V-8 and one of the engineers say "yeah, and in a couple of years we can punch it out to 400". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 that was a great reply! thanks 2 years ago I was at Pomona at the "street legal" drags..basically anything from kids stealing there parents suburban and "running it" to street legal pro street cars there was a porsche turbo that didn't appear to launch hard you could tell he backed off at the finish line and he ran.......honest to god...9.8 I've never gotten that picture out of my head...there's no way I can afford that! But 2600 lb 240z w/ nice gn drivetrain.... I guess anythings possible I think the only really viable other option would be a supercharged lt1. BTW if anyones into the lt1 drivetrain you can find them in the paper here practically every week. www.recycler.com also about 10 to 20 240's every week...good luck finding a stock one but none have rust here in So Cal. Believe it or not there was even a free 71 last week, just tow it and it's yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 Yeah well you know the GN engineers had a major party when the big wigs bought off on it. Probably approached them with the powerplant being "Economical, powerful, light and fuel effecient" for our Larger buick cars. Meanwhile back at GN R&D "Your BS'ing me right? They bought that stuff?" Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 i guess the best way to run gnx is the auto, thats what theyre best suited for, unless you can shift REAL fast. i always wondered what gm was thinking when they put that bad boy out, and why they did not follow through with further inovations of the sort, like a production one hit wonder. oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 Hey gofastZ, you are in CA so I do not know if you are referring to Eddie Bello's 930. Couple of years ago he drove it down from NY to South FL, ran 9.40s @ 150+ and drove it home. He avoided the waterbox, did a short burnout to haze the tires, big wheelstand off the line, lifted the wheels on the 1-2 and the 2-3 and did all of that on 255 Toyo Proxes A-1s shaved down to 4/32" . I heard he had the car in the hi-8s but is now in jail. Turns out he headed a major intl stolen car ring. Takes a lot of hot cash to finance a streetable 750hp Porsche Turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 Hrm, shop in Glen Burnie Maryland used to turn out 1,000HP "streetable" Porshe's. Custom headers, big turbos, and TEC II on all of them. They were on the cover of Turbo Magazine with one of them and had several features done years ago. They also had a really neat 914 - at least I think that's what it was. Little car that sounds like a VW? Was completely redone and weighed about what a go-kart would. Sick fast! However I wouldn't recomend them to anyone - "Turbo Performance Center" had my Mustang for 50 (count them!) 50 weeks doing my twin turbos. This from a bolt-on kit! They had a Nova looking car out front as well that a customer abandoned. It had a 400SBC, 4speed, and a big intercooled turbo on it. They claimed the customer drove it once and was terrified of it. They did some awesome fabrication work though, a shame they weren't more timely (ahem). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 7, 2001 Share Posted October 7, 2001 I don't know who it was..I was just at the races with my girlfriend and out of the blue this car did this....there are definetly rice rockets and vw's down here that run 10's...miles bautista et al...so maybe it was just some rich punk...don't know. don't know about even driving something like that on the street either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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