ImportRacer Posted May 4, 2002 Author Share Posted May 4, 2002 I live in a HUGE state, texas, there are quit a few different kinds of tracks around. If I were to build this car it wouldnt be built for just one kind of track or one preticular track. it would be street legal and do most of its driving on the streets probably at first(driving to and from the track that is ;)hehe ) Im not looking for f1 speed or handling, i'm to young to die lol. Maybe one day but not thats a whole nother ballpark from roadracing. Though its more or less the same thing but a f1 car is just crazy and not even really a car But equaly as cool in its own rightown right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted May 4, 2002 Share Posted May 4, 2002 Azel, The 4G64/4G64 hybrid is a very new swap that I've come up with for 2G DSM owners. There are a few being built up around the country as we speak, including one I'm helping with here locally. The 4G64 and the 4G63 block are esentially the same block, they've just added a few extra oil drain holes for the head (although, there was a DOHC 4G64 for one year and one model of Galant that doesn't have those holes) and increased the bore from 85mm to 86.5mm (4G63 crank has a stroke of 88mm vs. the 100mm 4G64 crank) The only custom units that have to be used are the pistons, which will run you right at $500 for the pistons, pins, rings, and locks. The 4G64 shares the same rods as the 4G63, however, they are the 7 bolt variety rods, so they should be replaced if anything over 400hp is to be achieved reliably (1G rods can be machined to fit the 4G64 crank and these rods can be found very cheaply - however, a set of Eagle rods [Hbeam type - 750+hp] can be picked up for about $350 or so) You can use the 4G64 DOHC cylinder head gasket. I've outlined the parts needed on my site http://www.dsetuning.com or...here's a shortcut... http://www.geocities.com/awd92gsx/dse4g64.html I, unfortunately, am not working on one for my Z at the moment as I picked up a nicely built 83 ZXT engine for my car. I think in the future, though, I will definitely build one. One of the biggest problems with the engine, though, for DSM's is that it almost has TOO MUCH torque. The driveline MUST be upgraded on a DSM to use this engine. The long stroke coupled with the fantastic head flow of the 4G63 head means you will have an engine that outrev most 4's, and, if tuned right, kick the snot out of most 8's Rev limit should be kept below 9k rpm for reliability reasons, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted May 5, 2002 Share Posted May 5, 2002 When I posted the info about the L28T motor, I was under the impression you needed an engine that was a proven swap and "not unlimited funds or too hardcore". If you begin to swap engines and do major changes, be prepared to be pitted against some pretty heavy hitters, you'll likely be put in Super Unlimited classes. Super unlimited means exactly that, you run what you brung. Bottom line is, he who comes with the most wins. You WILL race AGAINST unlimited funds. If you want to build a car to compete against that, then you will need plenty of HP and Torque, N/A would be easier to drive and more consistant from track to track. Are you completely against V8 power(it doesn't have to have pushrods). Aluminum DOHC V8's are all over the place and Nissan, Toyota, Ford, and Cadillac offer good examples. If you must have turbo power, I would recommend the SR20DET. I have helped swap those into Sentra's. One of them has a hybrid turbo and is quit a street sleeper. I guess you would need one from a S15 to run it in a Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azel Posted May 5, 2002 Share Posted May 5, 2002 AWD92GSX, For some reason, the "page is unavailable" message keeps popping up when I click your link. Maybe it's just me? That hybrid motor sounds pretty cool. Which Toyota tranny does it work with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted May 5, 2002 Share Posted May 5, 2002 Hmm...strange... try going through my site ( http://www.dsetuning.com ) and clicking on the 4G64 Swap on the right side of the page. There is a company in Fl I think that builds a bell housing to adapt the old Celica trannies (they've used these trannies in many different models throughout the Toyota line) to the 4G63 bellhousing mounting pattern. I can get you more info on that if you want. Also, there are quite a number of StarQuests using a 4G63 now, so I think there must be an adapter to use it on their trannies, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted May 5, 2002 Share Posted May 5, 2002 Interestingly, while looking around, I found this website... http://intermega.globo.com/allmitsubishi/4g63t.htm It mentions using the Supra 5 spd (which if I remember right is what a friend of mine with a 4G63 powered StarQuest has) or even using a 6 speed from a Supra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted May 5, 2002 Share Posted May 5, 2002 http://www.geocities.com/piercedjd/4G63Conquest.html This is a friend of mine's Conquest. This site may be of some help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImportRacer Posted May 5, 2002 Author Share Posted May 5, 2002 The 4G63 is a very strong motor. I have one in my talon Im planning on building a street-able rally car out of it at some point but would like to do the Z first because it would be faster and easier to do. But that would be a wicked little swap. So far I think I like the sound of the 3SGTE engine the best and the SR20DET just because its a nissan engine and it would be cool to keep the Z in the nissan blood line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted May 5, 2002 Share Posted May 5, 2002 Kimbolton, Huntingdon UK - HKS Europe Ltd. recently announced its plans for entry into the LMP675 class of both the American and European Le Mans racing series. Mitsubishi’s 2.0 liter, turbocharged 4G63 engine was selected by HKS as a base engine because of its exceptional durability and performance potential. HKS plans to begin track testing of the new engine in April and has established a target launch date of May 1, 2002, in time for the 2002 Le Mans Grand Prix. "We couldn't be more excited about this opportunity to go racing at Le Mans," remarked Michael Saenz, HKS Europe's Managing Director. "There's still a lot of work to be done, but with the support of our customers and chassis manufacturers, we're confident that an HKS powered engine will compete at the world's greatest endurance race next year." For advance planning purposes, HKS will have design layouts of the engine available for race teams by December 2001. For fitment and installation, non-running engines are planned to be available by March 2002. HKS' 4G63 Group N engine has dominated its class in the Italian Rally series, winning all three Group N Championships. With the same engine, HKS won the 2000 ANCRO British Group N Championship. HKS Europe, Ltd., based in Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, builds and supplies racing engines in England, Germany and South America and distributes the HKS line of high-performance aftermarket automobile parts throughout Europe. HKS Europe Ltd. is a wholly owned subsidiary of HKS Japan, Ltd., a publicly traded company that was established Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 5, 2002 Share Posted May 5, 2002 Originally posted by awd92gsx:Lone, Hey...am I reading you right? You're in AZ now? Bill, Yes sir, down here for another week or so this trip, but then packing and back full time. But the Lone Z is in Az now! Not sure I'll get time to get together with you and John before I leave this trip, but positively when I return! , Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted May 5, 2002 Share Posted May 5, 2002 Great!!! Lemme know when you get all settled in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImportRacer Posted May 5, 2002 Author Share Posted May 5, 2002 I wouldnt rule out V8's most of them are just heavier than the smaller engines that make the same power. There are a few toyota V8's that ive thought about but it still doesnt seem as promising as one of the smaller ones. Does any one have any info on swaping the 3S-GTE? Has it been done before? So far thats the engine I would chose I think. But now with all this talk of 4G63's and everything I kinda wanna take the engine outa my talon and put it in a Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted May 5, 2002 Share Posted May 5, 2002 It's actually not the amount of boost that is a problem with the 4G64 crank. It's the RPM limit. But...I wouldn't get too caught up in that... There have been a few guys running a 4G63 (2.0L)stroked with a 4G64 crank (2.4), which brings them to just about 2.3L. I took it a little further and came up with how to run the 2.0L cylinder head on the 2.4L bottom end (the only real differences between the two bottom ends are the stroke, bore, and the deck height, which I've overcome with using the right parts from the right years of different models). Crower makes a forged stroker crank for the 4G63, but the kit runs close to $7k if I remember right, and, it hasn't shown itself to be any stronger than a 4G64 crank. I really couldn't suggest stroking the 4G64 any more than it already is, as the rod angles are pretty high as they are, but still within safe limits. One thing about the 4G64 block, it does NOT have oil squirters, which, to me is a good thing. The oil squirters in later 4G63 (7 bolt) blocks is believed to be one of the culprits to excessive amounts of crankwalk. The 4G64 DOHC was made in the 1994 Galant GS. The cylinder head is actually the same exact cylinder head used on the 2G turbos (same part number and everything). If you can find this engine complete, you have everything you need. All you have to do is drop in the custom pistons (the stock pistons are 10:1 comp., the customs are 9:1 - more turbo friendly), use the 2G turbo oil pan, and turbo related components (turbo, exh. manifold, etc...) You could then run either the stock DSM ECU or run a standalone. I've had to reinstall everything on my computer, but, I built up two identical engines on Desktop Dyno 2K. Then, I did nothing other than change the bore and stroke to 4G64 specs. The hp and torque curves widened considerably and actually shifted about 1,000 RPM down, but did not lose any top end. The hybrid engine produced over 50 more ft lbs. of torque!! Once I get my CD back from a friend of mine, I'll reinstall it, build the engines again, and work with it some more...however, there is at least one engine in SC that is VERY close to completion (Epik Motorsports if anybody lives near Myrtle Beach) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 My friend is really into Starions and where I live (New Zealand) they are all 4G63 based and not really very impressive. I've been for rides in quite a few, one running 15psi through a TC06, one with 15psi through a TC05 (both of them pushing just a little over 210hp at the flywheel I think) and I wasn't impressed at all, my friends 280Z coupe with an L20 turbo running 7psi was faster than both of them. One guy we know whos like the Starion expert in our city is just dumping the whole engine in favour of a VR4 or Evo 4 engine (he already has the VR4 engine but is going to get an Evo 4 front cut). The Starion engines are pretty crap for running high HP, they aren't MPI, the air flow meter is very very restrictive, ECUs don't let you run more than 10psi, or if you get a late model one 15psi, I'm not too sure how the other DSM cars are (we don't get them here) but I'm not impressed by 4G63s. And the fact that all Starions sound like crap Wouldn't the Astron (?) engine (the 2.6L the US spec Starions came with) be a better engine to go with? The fastest 4 banger in one of the magazines we read was an Astron based car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 If I remember right, the 4G63 Starions over there are all SOHC, right? Are they the same 4G63's that are in the EVO series for you guys? From the sounds of it, the Aussie Starion 4G63 is completely different than what we have. Our 4G63's are like what is in the Galant VR4 and EVO series. It sounds like your 4G63 is little more than a G63B for us...which was put in our Mighty Max. Regardless of that fact, the 4G63 powered Starions over here (using the DOHC cylinder head) are all performing very well. A few starions running 4G63's are running 9 and 10 second 1/4 miles. There are a multitude of 9 second 4G63 powered DSM's and even a few 8 second 4G63 powered DSM's. a JDM EVO VI came with roughly 320hp (although, on paper, they're limited to 270hp). With little more than a boost controller, exhaust, intake, and proper tuning, it's not uncommon to see a 3200lb DSM running 13.xx's. Now, granted, a 4G63 will not have the low and mid range torque as an L28, but, if you build the stroker 4G64/4G63 hybrid, you will have L28 type torque, but still have high horsepower capabilities. It all really comes down to the L28 head design not being overly horsepower friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azel Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 Originally posted by DJ33:[QB] The Starion engines are pretty crap for running high HP, they aren't MPI, the air flow meter is very very restrictive, ECUs don't let you run more than 10psi, or if you get a late model one 15psi, I'm not too sure how the other DSM cars are (we don't get them here) but I'm not impressed by 4G63s. And the fact that all Starions sound like crap QB] Hmmm... I've never owned a Mitsu car before but it seems as though the 4G63 is a terrific engine that can handle lots of boost in stock form. One of the most over-engineered engines IMO hence Mitsubishi is still using the 4G63 in the new EVO's over a decade after it's introduction is very impressive. I've seen 600+hp 4G63's, imagine what Bill's hybrid motor could do and the powerband! Also, it has a huge aftermarket following. Right now, I'm in the process of dropping in an L28et with a T3/T4 but maybe down the line, I can afford another beater Z I could transform into an competent autocrosser. Bill's hybrid would be great. However, instead of running a turbo, I'd go with a Paxton Novi blower instead, just for kicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 Kimbolton, Huntingdon UK - HKS Europe Ltd. recently announced its plans for entry into the LMP675 class of both the American and European Le Mans racing series. Mitsubishi’s 2.0 liter, turbocharged 4G63 engine was selected by HKS as a base engine because of its exceptional durability and performance potential. HKS plans to begin track testing of the new engine in April and has established a target launch date of May 1, 2002, in time for the 2002 Le Mans Grand Prix. "We couldn't be more excited about this opportunity to go racing at Le Mans," remarked Michael Saenz, HKS Europe's Managing Director. "There's still a lot of work to be done, but with the support of our customers and chassis manufacturers, we're confident that an HKS powered engine will compete at the world's greatest endurance race next year." For advance planning purposes, HKS will have design layouts of the engine available for race teams by December 2001. For fitment and installation, non-running engines are planned to be available by March 2002. HKS' 4G63 Group N engine has dominated its class in the Italian Rally series, winning all three Group N Championships. With the same engine, HKS won the 2000 ANCRO British Group N Championship. HKS Europe, Ltd., based in Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, builds and supplies racing engines in England, Germany and South America and distributes the HKS line of high-performance aftermarket automobile parts throughout Europe. HKS Europe Ltd. is a wholly owned subsidiary of HKS Japan, Ltd., a publicly traded company that was established Yes I heard about this about 4-5 months ago, but unfortunatly I havent heard anything new about this. I forgot....are they using a whole new chassis of their own?....if so, that will be a disaster, it will never be competitive against the Reynards or the MGs. But the engine seems like a logical choice....the average HP for the 675 cars is around 350-400HP....that seems just plain easy with that engine they chose. IF they were able to get the whole package right, it would be super fast. The MG(which also has a turbo 2.0L 4) will definately be one of the fastest cars in the whole race. At LeMans last Year(ITS FIRST YEAR!!) it was up to third place overall!! And then the electronics got soaked. And at Sebring which I was at, the MG KILLED the track lap record and made the pole possition, and that is over all the LMP900s like the Audis, Panozes, ect. I was sooooo rooting for the MGs, but electronics once again was their downfall. Unfortunatly, we will have to wait till 2003 to see any Lemans Talon engined cars.......the preliminary tests have already been done, and no HKS was present. Although there was a Morgan Aero 8, HAHAHAHAA: http://www.lemans.org/course/aco2002/statique/equipages/fiche_equipage_1_2_2_205.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZROSSA Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 The starion engines we got were all single cam. I dont recall them being that easy to tune without a heap of head work. There was one that used to race in the old group a over in aussie and even with the nasty race gas they used it would only put out 320 flywheel hp. In saying that my father in law has a new evo 7. Fastest car I have ever been in and 280 hp standard. Some say more. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImportRacer Posted May 6, 2002 Author Share Posted May 6, 2002 The engine you have is not the 4G63 engine we have. Most 4G63 engines could produce 300rwhp, or AWHP in some cases , very easily with just a few simple mods. But does anyone know anything about swaping a 3S-GTE engine into a Z? Or has a 4g63 swap ever been done before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Yeah, the engines we get in the Starions are 4G63 SOHC with centre point injection and either TC04s or TC05s. My friends car was actually a Galant block with a Starion head on it, it had slightly higher compression. Do you guys get the Sirius Dash 12 valve heads over there? One of our other friends owns a VR4, hes just converted it from auto to manual and its apparently pretty damn fast. I guess you guys are kind of down on engines to base swaps on though, since we get pretty much everything and anything here. Skylines ahoy I know there are probably plenty of Mitsis that run 10s over in the US but there are probably plenty of Zs that do the same too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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