Guest Anonymous Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 I'm new here to hybridz. I'm still trying to figure out how to use this forum. I'm used to zcar.coms ancient style lol. I was unable to find any comparison between the 2 systems in the archives. I'm looking to get around 300rwhp . The motor I have is an 83ZX complete with wiring harrnes. Do I have to use one of these systems to get this kind of power? I do intend to use an I/C of course. I would also like to have as little lag as possible since I hope to autox the car when done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHANE Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 stock EFI will get you those numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Welcome to HybridZ!! The best you can do is to do a search on each one individually...sorry, I don't know of a post that deals with a comparo Hope you find what you are looking for. BTW, thanks for posting this in the correct forum!!! Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Taylor Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Not sure if you are interested or not but I am installing SDS on my car and am selling my old setup which made 350+ at the wheels. If you are only looking for about 300 at the wheels this would be a cheap way to get it. What I have is the 370cc injectors and a turbo AFM "calibrated" to work with the injectors. I am asking $150 for the setup. This also comes with a modified stock fuel rail and a turbo Fuel pressure regulator. Also have a brand new aluminum fuel rail with mounting hardware and all for $120. Give me an email if you think you are interested. JT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted November 27, 2002 Share Posted November 27, 2002 I'd argue that the GENVII is NOT the most advanced one out there! Yes, it's got many features that the older genersation DFI didn't have but there are other systems out - specifically the AEM - that I'd call better from a feature standpoint. I won't post all of the features here again but suffice it to say it's been running my daily driven Supra for months now. The downside is that AEM hasn't released their universal "race" system - yet. When they do it'll be the SAME hardware as their existing PnP boxes (shrug). The biggest most important difference between the AEM and DFI is support. I searched the WEB high and low for some sort of forum for tech support on the GENVII when I was deciding on an EMS - I never found one. AEM on the other hand has a support BBS where the engineers and users canaskanswer questions - www.aempower.com/bbs Heck, I found more support for the TEC, FAST, and Holley systems then I did the DFI Anyway, between the DFI and SDS is a tough question IMO. Both systems can run the motor but they seem to be geared towards two different audiences. The DFI has datalogging, great playback of the logs, a nice digital dashboard, W/B capability (BIG+!), knock sensing, and the ability to go full sequential. The SDS is geared towards the user who doesn't want to invest in a laptop and isn't worried about getting every last HP out of the car. SDS users just want it to start and work without hours of tuning. I'm not sure the SDS can go sequential (?) and it's tuning is coarser. It doesn't datalog nor does it use a W/B O2 to my knowledge. IF I ran an SDS I'd supplement it with a W/B that could datalog for sure. Datalogs and a W/B make tuning MUCH easier IMO. On a hard pull it's nearly impossible to watch everything and know where exactly the car was lean or rich without a log. Anyway, I guess some of this question comes down to just how much you have invested in your motor. If it's a multi-thousand dollar investment then I'd go DFI. If on the other hand it's a junkyard pull with a special turbo and bigger injectors then I'd go for the SDS - especially if I didn't already have a laptop. The cost of the DFI, especially with their W/B option, isn't to be sneezed at . Support should be important to you too so evaluate how each EMS supports their product especially if EFI is a new world to you. P.S. I've got a copy of the DFI GENVII demo software on my site. I'd suggest looking at FAST some (I find it lacking) and the Holley Commander IF it could be adapted - I think they have demo software out there too. Hrm, make sure that the system you choose can run the injectors you desire (low impedance?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zcarsmakemyheadhurt Posted November 27, 2002 Share Posted November 27, 2002 The differences between DFI and SDS...WOW! Big difference biggest being that the DFI has widow's systems programing data on a PC for tunning and SDS uses a programer box that lets you key in the needed adjustments. DFI is probably the most state of the art system out right now and once you have done a few cars and are familiar with the system tunning isn't too bad. The most kick ass part about DFI is the Datalog great grafix and when used with a wide band O2 you know whats going on with the engine and can correct the fuel curve as need. It is the better of the systems I have delt with. The SDS tells you whats going on with the sensors in real time but datalog is not a option, but the systems are the easyier of all to program and they give you a table to set the base maps on that puts you real close. I never missed the datalog when tuning the last car I did with a SDS. I also work with Microtech fuel computers and am currently custom tailoring wiring harness for the L6 engine with wire by wire install instruction's. Microtech work awsome and have the advantage of being able to fire multi coils as does the SDS. If you need more info give me a call I'm always playing with differnt types of systems and once you have a programable fuel computer that converts your car to speed density (no AFM) dialed in, you'll make the horse power. Alex Costa Precision Machined Engines 1-800-665-0405 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted November 27, 2002 Share Posted November 27, 2002 Agreed DFI support is not so good compared to the others, and there isn't a huge amount of info on the web. Strange because so many 80-90's cars were using them, practically a standard for a chev car. My old DFI has wideband capability, and sorta datalogging. The SDS doesn't have quite the fuel control the DFI does. But hey you might not notice that. If you don't get datalogging I will caution you driving fast and trying to look at a screen is very dangerous, do that in an isolated area. I like the Haltec for price and what you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 28, 2002 Share Posted November 28, 2002 Well, thanks a lot everyone! It's a tough decision for me. I was also wondering about the mounting of sensors for the different systems. Did anybody run into some difficulties when figuring out how to mount the supplied FI sensors. Will these systems run on the stock sensors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted November 29, 2002 Share Posted November 29, 2002 The AEM is the most felxible I know of regarding sensors. Coolant and TPS would be no problem for sure. Very flexible on ignition as well but you need some way to tell where cylinder #1 is for full sequential injection. Hrm, someone mentioned the Maxima distributor as a possibility, you ought to check into that. Biggest problem is that the AEM Race Unit isn't yet available Not sure how well the DFI or SDS would work - chances are you would have to retrofit GM sensors. Honestly, that's no big deal for IAT and water temp. TPS and again ignition are the ones that might be most difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted November 29, 2002 Share Posted November 29, 2002 The new DFI is alot better than the older version. I downloaded their trial software it is fairly easy to use and understand. The new datalogging is a welcome. It does have alot of flash to it, but isn't much more than the TEC II. Wideband is a nice option and certainly reduces tuning time and mistakes. I really think that most ppl don't have the use for sequential EFI. Usually the major benifit is lower emmisions and a tad better milage. There are another stack of variables to time it correctly to take full use of sequential injection. I think the only big benifits these systems have over the SDS is datalogging and Wideband O2. Personally you are only looking for 300hp you can easily get away with the SDS and have better drivablity than you old ZXT EFI. The Holley Commander has got some nice features including datalogging, I think it is in the same price range as the SDS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted November 30, 2002 Share Posted November 30, 2002 I'd have to agree concerning the sequential except that I think it may make idling larger injectors easier. It's really not a critical thing to have but something I've always looked for. Nothing wrong with the "flash" the DFI has. I've actually built a software "dashboard" for my AEM patterned off of the DFI dash. One nice advantage the DFI has over the AEM is that it will play through the various tables as you step through the datalog. That's a VERY nice feature IMO and one I've asked AEM to add. Personally I think datalogging is VERY important. Being a geek I love to have all sorts of data to crunch and it makes tuning MUCH easier. The W/B is the most critical part for me. Being able to tune cruise to 17:1 and WOT to exactly 11.5:1 (turbo) is critical. Trying to guess A/F sux (been there, done that). A 3rd party W/B with datalogging could always be used with the SDS though - both the Techedge and FJO offer this.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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