Guest nezzie76 Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 TZ and I used a thing called sea going putty ( I can't remember the name exactly) to bond it on. So far ir works well and we haven't had problems. But it's pretty expensive though. We used fiberglass filler to fill in the gaps between the doors. It's seeming to work too. We are going to try to bolt the rear down. We don't like the idea of it being permenently on there ( you never know when it needs to come off again, ie in case of serious front end damage). We haven't really worked too much on it though b/c we've been spending days on the %$#% hood hinges. We'll let you know how it goes though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 Foam is an interesting medium but some foam absorbs water.You will need the closed cell foam. The problem , I see with direct fiberglass to fiberglass bonding is that you are introducing new poly ester fiberglass resin to old fiberglass polyester resin after the curing window closed. The new fiberglass will not make as strong a bond as the initial lay up did.On the other hand two pieces of fiberglass can be bonded together with cloth or mat and then overlayed with more cloth or mat to make a strong combination but impossible in a door skin application.Air bubbles in fiberglass is a strength killer. Fiberglass resin is a brittle substance with no strength but when added to fiberglass strands .. the strands are very durable. Sea Going Putty is a two part epoxy made by Permalite Plastic in Newport Beach California (1-800-633-0302.The putty was orinally made to do emergency under water repairs to boats. This is the epoxy used by Blue Ray/Stable Auto Works and is GOOD.The epoxy has to be completely cured before introducing any polyester resin around it. I would suggest using an epoxy bonding medium for fiberglass to metal and if you are making metal body mounts after the epoxy bonding process....you can layover fiberglass cloth to the metal for an added insurance to the epoxy bond. Clean and use abrasive discs to all metal and fiberglass to score it. A lot of these kits have wax added to the last application of polyester resin to aid in curing to seal out the moisture in the air.The wax does not bond to anything and must be removed. Saran wrap will provide the same moisture barrier if your resin is slow in curing. Ramble on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatbum Posted September 25, 2002 Author Share Posted September 25, 2002 Thanks TZ - I was hoping that would be right. What is your experience with bonding the door skins and the rear tub? The guy who did a bunch of work on the '64 speedster for us was very against using the foam and epoxy. He was pretty adamant about using glass to tie it all together. Just cannot afford his shop rates to have it do it. Anyway - I have seen quite a bit of differing opinions on the way to do it (on this site) but John Washinton seems to think that everglass for bonding does a great job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Washington Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 It's me again! I AM still alive. Teo told me that there had been quite a bit of traffic on the boards about VR and related matters, so I surfed around a little. Thanks to everyone who has had kind things to say about me and the Velo Rossa. I feel bad sometimes that I may not be providing enough support to my customers due to time/money limitations inherent with the one-man-band business model. I'm glad everyone has been able to get good results and is happy with the stuff they have gotten from me over the years! The "other company" still has all the tooling associated with VR Engineering and I'm not sure when that situation will be resolved or what the outcome will be. I'm pretty certain, however, that they will return the tooling to me. It's just a matter of time, letting them realize that they can't do anything with it without me (OK, humor me a little ego), and that it is the right thing to do. I will keep you all posted. I'm doing other stuff now having sold my building subsequent to the merger, reinvesting in and managing other property, pursuing some non-automotive new product designs (and newly inspired by Teo...see www.cellsock.com), etc. However, I have a few customers in the local area who are selling parts, and one completed car that is for sale. See www.reactionresearch.com/williams.htm for more info on that baby. If you need something, let me know and I will see if I can scrounge it for you! A few specific comments relative to this thread: 1. I appreciate what a few have said about the installation manual. I have been wanting to do a rewrite for a long time, however, it takes time and I'm not sure what form it should take. I would like to post it on the web for free. However it would be easy to plagiarize, and in its revised and expanded form it would occupy a bunch of space and be pretty damned difficult to view. It would also be difficult to recoup my investment of time. My thinking has always been that I should sell the manuals. At a historic ratio of about 50-1 (manuals to actual kit sales) this helps me keep the price of the parts down for the guys who are serious enough to wind up purchasing something. 2. Bonding is a process that works very well if you keep a few basics in mind. There are three main factors in getting a strong bond. A) surface prep, strength of the bonding agent in pounds/sq in, and c) number of square inches of bonded area. With fiberglass you need to scuff the shine of the INSIDE of the parts to "open up the pores" of the glass. The surface to which you are bonding should heavily scuffed as well. Use a grinder with less than 100 grit for both jobs. The total bond strenth is equal to the "unit" (pounds per square inch, for example) bond strength of the bonding agent, multiplied by the bonding area. If you have plenty of bond area, you don't need much unit strength. I once bonded on some door skins with Bondo, got one a little crooked and attempted to "pop it off" to redo it. Well, I wrecked the doorskin and the door! OK that's my 2 centavos for now. As always, I don't have much time to surf the boards, so if you have a significant question, flame, etc. that you REALLY need for me to see, please send it directly to john@reactionresearch.com. If there are significant postings that I need to address that have not been sent to me directly, someone please cc me or send me a link to the appropriate board. Thanks again guys...you have no idea how much enjoyment I get from vicariously following your projects, seeing how different and how awesome they all turn out! John Washington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 John, I bought one of your manuals. Only to see your frame stiffening method. If you decide to redo it, I say sell it. I'd hate to see you put a ton of work into it and have people just stealing it. We buy the JTR manual when we want to do a SBC into a Z. Cheap info, I say. Some information should just have to be bought. Without the incentive of making a few bucks to pay you for all your time to do it, good documentation won't always be forthcoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Washington Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Thanks for the advice, guys. I do want to keep VR going until someone can take the torch from me. I am eager to resolve my issues with the current owners and move ahead. As far as retooling the kit, I can't tell you how many times I've said, "I should have done this," or "I should have done that," all the while thinking about making a newer, better (but more expensive) VR. I even carried the line of thinking out to the point of having conversations with the Cal Spyder guys ( http://www.calspyder.com/ ) about using their FANTASTIC tubular chassis as the basis for a new VR. That route would have the car wind up with a Ford small block (the usual engine for the calspyder) which is why we are all chatting on the HybridZ forum! The only shortcoming would/might be non-independent rear suspension. But, the newer mustangs have IRS... However, it's lots of bucks invested for a car that would be VERY nice, but sell for a LOT more money, and selling in much smaller numbers. AND it would still be a front-engine car (see www.reactionresearch.com/moreautomotive.html ) for my latest thinking on that subject. So, someone who is enthusiastic about the front engine roadsters needs to buy all this stuff off me. I will share all my improvement ideas, including the ones that make more sense financially! Why don't a handful of you guys get together and form an investment pool to buy it together. I will give generous terms to someone who is enthusiastic and has the business acumen to keep it going. I know all of you have the talent when it comes to producing the product...that is overwhelmingly evident! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 John , I have seen the Datsun rebody manuals and yours is the best and most informative. Try to keep the Velo Rossa alive. I would suggest that adapting to the 280ZX would be appropriate since they are really cheap and available now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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