Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 The following is sometimes an overlooked re-inforcement modification to a z convertible's windshield posts. We picked up two sections of 3 ft X 9/16 diameter all thread at the scrap yard for $1.75 to ram down the windshield posts for added strength. We could not find any "rebar" for this task. Nezzie, had been driving his Vello Rossa without any re-inforcememnts to the windsheild posts and I suspect that the windshield posts had moved a little since the side glass window guides fit tighter to the posts when they were recently re-installed. The 9/16 all thread rod was a perfect fit for inside the windshield posts. We used a pair of vice grips and actually screwed the threaded shaft into each post.What a fit! This did not require any welding after installation and definitely made for a more rigid windshield frame.I had gooed up some rebar with body putty to fit inside the Tomahawk windshield frame posts in addition to welding the tops.We replaced the Vello Rossa fiberglass windshield cap/flange and bonded it on with the "glass fiber" resin auto body putty. Our next step is to fit the top and it's flange to the windshield cap. The convertible top flange was made seperate from the top and at this time is still not bonded to the top.The Origin top flange was custom modified to the Vello Rossa windshield cap/flange. Once everything is alligned the top and it's flange will be bonded together. We have found a latch that we hope can be modified to secure the top to to the windshield frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drewz Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Sounds like the end is on the edge of the horizon!! You have a lot of "sticktoituvness" in reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 We located an adjustable generic 4 inch draw hasp web page picture #31 By "National MFG.Co Sterling Illinois 61081" # N210-872 V35 at a local hardware store to secure the convertible top to the windshield header utiliZing the three (3) mounting locations of the mirror and sun visors.A piece of 3/16ths thick X 2 inch wide by 3 inch long flattbar was drilled to accept the 3 windshield mounting holes for the mirror.Initially,the metal male end of a Datsun seat belt was found to provide the approprite attaching end slot and strength for attachment of the adjustable draw hasp.....but The seat belt end was found to be too hard to drill,too short for a proper fit with a slot too narrow to accept the draw hasp's hooked end.......The seat belt slot was widened and 2 inches of the metal male end of the Datsun seat belt was sawed off to weld onto the drilled flat bar made to mount to the mirror holes( diagram of flat bar and seat belt blade un "My Yahoo Pictures". The prototype adjustable draw hasp was attached by drywall screws to the fiberglass convertible top header flange for a trial fit. This combination appears to be a viable solution to "lock" the top to the windshield. Of course longer metric attaching screws will have to be obtained to mount the mirror and sunvisors over the 3 new "seatbelt/flatbar" windshield attachment points" The seatbelt/flatbar direct attachment sections will have to be modified with proper recess holes to allow the special mirror and sunvisors' adjustment movements (or ie "hogged out" to fit everything flat on the new attachment pieces.The seat belt metal blade was welded onto the top edge of the flat bar to give it an offset for better attachment to the draw hasp. What is interesting is that since the mirror was lowered slightly with the addition of the 3/16 inch flatbar attachment, the total view in the mirror fully captures the outline of the convertible top's rear window which means that there will be good "rear view" out back. I got some better film for my camera and hope to have some more pictures posted of this "major" attachment modification. I was getting a little worried about this "lock down" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 I took a few more pictures but cannot post until I get the film developed.. web page ......Top lock down......... The 3 adjustable hasps to lock the top to the windshield flange require 3 bolts for each hasp..We decided to obtain some grade 8, 10-32 button head screws and weld 3 of them on 3 seperate metal plates and insert the plates between the convertible top and the convertible top flange before these two fiberglass pieces (top and top flange) were bonded together. The adjustable hasps fit into the the protruding grade 8 with fine threads with nuts and washers and can be tightened and re-adjusted with out much fear of snapping off or tearing thru the fiberglass....... Bonding flange to top. We bonded the plates with the welded grade 8 button heads onto the inside of the top flange after fitting the hasps on the other side.Then trial fitted the flange and temporarily attached top to the windshield frame.The top and it's flange locked down properly to the windshield flange. We screwed dry wall screws to the top for alignment prior to final bonding of the top to it's inside flange.Initially bonded the top and its flange together with "Bondo Hair Resin" held securely in place by drywall screws. ...........Extending the top 2 1/8 inchs to fit over the Vello Rossa co*kpit. We used 2 inch masking tape placed behind the side windows and across the rear of the top and used this as a marker to cut off the rear section of the top with cut-off wheel to extend the top 2 1/8 inches.The Origin convertible top was about 2 inches too short for the Vello Rossa and extending the new "copy top" was about the only practical way to resolve this problem for the Vello Rossa prototype. To make another Vello Rossa top we would have to make another mold off the Vello Rossa prototype. Cut 8 flat bar straps to join the front and rear convertible top pieces back together with a 2 1/8 inch gap between them. Filled in the gaps on the exterior side with metal sheathing attached by drywall screws flush across the front and rear top pieces to act as a "mold"........ Flipped the top over and began the lay-up of fiberglass onto the the metal sheathing to fill in the 2 1/8 inch gap. Also glassed in the edges of the top flange to the inside of the top to complete the bonding of these two pieces into one solid piece.......... NEXT we will attach and bond the rear bulkhead flange to the rear of the top and then fit the side glass to the Toyota Celica door window molding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Began bonding the fiberglass top to the rear bulhead falnge on rear deck. We originally made the rear bulkhead flange very thin by basically waxing the rear deck and applying gelcoat and fiberglass over the body.............Today We trimmed the bulkhead flange and attached it to the body with drywall screws and then placed the top over the flange secured with small pieces of aluminum angle placed against the top and screwed to the rear deck and to the top to prevent movement. Cut the bottom portion of the top to provide a gap between the bottom of the top and the flange to allow the addition of "bondo hair to fill the gap. After the "bondo hair" cured, shreaded glass and resin was appplied to the "bondo hair" filled gap on the exterior. ...........Hopefully this incomplete bonding will hold the top and bulkhead flange together to allow removal from the car to completely bond the interior area together and add more glass to the bulkhead flange. The top area behind the driver's window is a little warped and the bulkhead flange at this stage of the build up may not be able to hold the warp in check unless the top is attached back on the car. The added 2 1/8 inch to the top length really improved the looks of the top on the Vello Rossa. I also noticed today that the mold for the "original" Origin convertible top was cast off the Z roofline from the side drip rails from the windshield gasket to the rear hatch with a "wrap around" fiberglass panel for the backside from one side of the door glass to the other. No wonder the rear looks so chopped off on the Origin convertible with it's flat rear deck.. The 2 1/8 onch extension really complements the shape and curves of the Vello Rossa's rear deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I would just like to say. WHOA!!!! Where can I get my grubby little hands on the Tomahawk kit. This is the concept I've been looking for ever since I've bought my z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Z Raven... an elusive fellow by the name of Rory Bateman/Native American Craftsman 2444 Elkhorn Blvd Suite D Rio Linda California 95673-3817 makes the kits. The kits are extremely well made and I understand have escalated to $10,000.00 a piece with a waiting list with less than 35 examples in existance.A lttle over 20 cars are known by Tomahawk owners. Mine was the 8th made and I paid $3100.00 for it about 7 years ago with a lot of work and acessories thrown in. Contact Eric Nyerlin at web page. Eric has a picture show case of Tomahawks and may know of one or two for sale since there was an unfinished one offered on eBay that Eric was in contact with the seller. Zee on steroids. The car has massive proportions totally masculine with no feminine qualities like the Vello Rossa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Although alittle rich for my blood it truely is a thing of beauty. Who knows I might win the lotto an be able to get one of those bad ass kits.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 We glassed in the rear bulkhead flange to the top today rather quickly and re-installed the top back on the Vello Rossa to prevent possible warpage on the driver's side rear quarter that wanted to stick out... ...The design of the Vello Rossa windshield flange caused the copy of the "Origin convertible top" to ride about one inch too high over the side windows. It was decided to drop the top drip rails closer to the side windows. The drip rails were cut out with a disc grinder. Roof sheathing was cut to form a "mold" to extend the roofline closer to the top of the side windows. I had this hare-brained notion to bend and shape the sheathing to the roof line before screwing it in place.It did not work and the bent sheathing was kinked . Looking for an alternative suggested by Nate , we stumbled onto a way to extend the roof line over the side windows and do away with the "UGLY" drip rails .Actually the 1 inch higher roofline and 2 1/8 inch extra length of the top coupled with the rounded roofline minus the drip rail extending over the door glass is beginning to fashion a hard top worthy of the Vello Rossa /250 GTO lines and curves. web page You can see in the "photos" a picture of the original Origin top and the "drip rails".Those drips will not be missed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nezzie76 Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Hey Larry the link isn't working. I think the problem may lay in the address. It says Yahoo,com and not yahoo.com like it should. I don't know if that's something you can fix??? Oh yeah and we didn't get any hardener today, do we have enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 made a , instead of a . The font is so small on this "calculator" need a microscope to decipher it and the task bar took a notion to go vertical lately....enuff hardner unles Olga mistakes it for acetone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Washington Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 This may start a thread that will wind up being transferred to another topic, but I read with interest TomahawkZ's comments about the Tomahawk being masculine as opposed to "feminine qualities like the Vello Rossa." I'm totally not offended by this, so don't please don't take it wrong, but it harks back to a series of discussions I once had at the prompting of the folks who "adopted" the company last year (one of many good things that I got out of that relationship): What makes a particular car design attractive? This question is an attempt to take a critical and empirical look at body design. I have some very strong ideas about it, but it's very difficult for most folks to put it into words. Design is very much a subjective thing. "I don't know art, but I know what I like." Most comments on the appeal of the design are related to other designs, i.e., the GTO (obviously), the front of an E-Jag, the rear of a Cobra, etc. I'd be interested to hear some more from all of you guys on this subject. It may lead to some improvements in the design of my Z products, and certainly will contribute to the eventual body design of La Bala, our new mid-engine project (see http://www.reactionresearch.com/moreautomotive.html ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 John.. I would agree the Toyota Mr 2 is becoming economically avaialable. I saw that Factory Five has a new "Roadster" web page that appears to have a Cobra Daytona front with a Cobra rear with a flat trunk. The car looks Ferarri though ( I consider the Daytona and especially the Cobra itself to be of Ferarri design). There was a similar LM 250 Ferarri after the GTO 250 of mid engine design (?)that maybe worth investigating. Could you incorporate some of your various mold pieces to form an "original" body design? No matter what: follow the early Ferrari design..it works and sells. Sex does have that effect on humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Washington Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Unfortunately, once you make molds you are constrained to making the identical part over and over until you are willing to prototype something new and make a new mold. That is exactly what we plan to do. You reference the early Ferrari designs but then the question becomes, "what makes the Ferrari's so attractive." You have to have a starting point; some empirical objective. I hesitate to share these ideas because I would like to elicit from others untainted ideas of design attractiveness. However, maybe they will jumpstart the discussion. In my opinion the GTO is attractive because it had a long (some would say "phallic") front end--very masculine. However, the aspect ratio of the front is very slender--more feminine. And the nose protrudes in a pronounced fashion with similar reference to both genders. Likewise the rear is wide. On one hand (so to speak) you could compare it to muscular, broad shoulders or strong legs. On the other hand, being literally the "rear end," you could compare it to the hips of a woman--very feminine. To complicate matters more (literally) the bodywork has a multitude of openings; slits, holes, ducts. All add interest because they draw attention and break up the otherwise smooth panels. They are also passages from the beauty you see on the outside, to the mysteries that lie beneath the surface. The exterior surfaces incorporate more complex curves than modern designs. That is to say, mathematically more complex: They have curve from top-to-bottom AND from one end to the other. However, the radiuses are "medium." That is to say, not small like at the edge of a panel, nor large like on a relatively flat panel (the radius of which approaches infinity). This point about complex curves relates directly to making the body more appealing. It is softer (again, more feminine), but "bulgier" (if that's a word) which is more muscular and masculine. It also relates to the appeal of the "modern retro" designs, like the PT Cruiser and the 350Z, to cite two examples. It also generates highlights that are more concentrated. That is to say, if the vehicle is in bright sunlight and you squint at it, you see the highlights as small, scintillating, points of light. However, you can't just round off all the sharp corners or you wind up with a blob. The design incorporates strategic "inflections" (another mathematical concept). These are found as you trace the line of the bonnet above the front wheel from front to rear, right before you get to the base of the windshield, and at the rear quarter transistioning to the spoiler, to name two. Inflections are changes in direction, adding interest and perhaps implying an exciting quality of tenuousness. OK, I'll stop with the cheap romance novel now. However, maybe this gives you an idea of the kind of feedback I'm seeking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maichor Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Here is another retro revival by Shelby. This is from www.shelbyamerican.com I'm no designer and I'm no artist. So . . . my 2 cents. John, I love the Velo Rossa because it looks classic. Here are a few of the styling pros in my opinion. 1) Wide stance in the rear. To me this means more meat to the street, not to mention it just looks fast. 2) Vents behind the wheel suggest racing, the lower oval is classic. If you are talking about a new car, I would try to keep some of the "womanly" curves and mix in some attitude. The huge front oval of the Cobra looks mean. Same with hood scoops. Most of all, I would like to see the vents as functional, Like the C5 Corvette brake coolant vents and rear tray etc. Take a look a Terry Oxandale's work if you haven't yet. He has done some cool stuff with his car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 The Factory Five new "roadster" and the new Cobra "retro" are very similar to me.To me what made the Velo Rossa popular was not only the looks but the "ease of assembly and price" plus a great donar car. No offense John, but the new mid engine project is no "piece of cake" to build and the style will only appeal to a younger segment of the population.I would have bought a Velo Rossa way back when I was buying all the Datsun kits had the fiberglass cheek panels been available for the tilt front end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Bought some 1 1/4 inch self tapping (phillips screw) pan head sheet metal screws at Home Depot and a 7inch wide 50 foot roll of roof sheathing. The screws are the best that I have found to drill and screw with.(or almost the best) We framed the outside of the side windows with the sheet metal roof sheathing and screwed them in place with the new screws. I will take pictures tomorrow to show how the roll sheathing forms a temporary mold for the fiberglass lay up to extend the roofline lower over the side windows..When the fiberglass cures, the next step is to install a fiberglass backing support for the Toyota Celica window moulding.....Down hill slide from there.. cosmetic sanding........ Quite anxious to see how the lowered roofline and elimination of the drip rail changes the appearance of the top......topis now a very tight fit upon the Vello Rossa body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nezzie76 Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Yeah that shelby's lines very closely remesmble the velo rossa's. It's kinda a modern version of the velorossa style. There is a hump on the rear part of the door that matches the 280zx, so maybe that would be a good kit for the zx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Have a few new pictures on Yahoo web page of the Vello Rossa top in the 3rd album. Two of the pictures show the metal sheathing screwed on with sheetmetal screws to the exterior of the top to lengthen and lower the roofline above the side windows. Temporary Metal straps for rigidity were also used to lengthen the top in addition to the sheathing.. Gelcoat and fiberglass are layed up on the interior side directly onto the roof sheathing. The fiberglass does not stick to the sheathing. The sheathing makes for a good "flat mold" for fiberglass. The third picture shows a good view how the completed top will fit the Vello Rossa. The lowered roof line and 2 1/8 inch extended length of the top did improve the overall looks and match the curves of the Vello Rossa......... We trashed the plans for using the Celica window molding for the side windows. Almost impossible to build a window molding flange to place Celica molding in the right angle to provide a good flush tight seal for Z side windows to seal against. We secured with screws and bonded on some fiberglass strips along the perimeter of the side window openings where a rubber seal can be glued on for a weather tight seal. We picked up separate rubber seals for weather stripping the wind shield flange and the rear bulkhead flange from an auto parts store. This Sunday, we will permanently glass in the side window strips from the inside for more stength. This will complete the fabrication portion for the fiberglass top for Nate's Vello Rossa ( except for a lot of cosmetic sanding due to all the modifications). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Washington Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 I appreciate the feedback on VR styling and the new mid-engine project we are doing. The mid-engine car is being designed to be substantially EASIER than mounting a new body over an existing unibody chassis. We hope to completely eliminate bonding, sanding, and painting...and of course the cutting, reinforcing, and all the accompanying work. "As I envision it," we would do the "hard" stuff: supply the welded chassis with suspension mounted, "roller" wheels and tires, and the body hanging. The customer would install the wiring harness, the drive train, and do final mount of the body including lights. In a nutshell, the customer would only have to "wrench" and not have to do anything involving dust, sparks, or paint. The styling? Well, that's a work in process. Neither Steve or I are very good at translating design elements into renderings. We'll keep you posted, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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