High Volume Oil Pump

[Guest woodyhooten]

I got my block professionally rebuilt by a friend of a friend and got a pretty good deal on it. The mechanic included a high volume oil pump from a local shop that he highly recommends for no charge. I have been trying to find a screen to fit it, but nothing has been able to fit. Should I try to get another pump, should I keep looking for screens (I've tried all the ones at Kragen and none slide in, even with quite a bit of effort) or are the oil screens supposed to be ridiculously hard to put on? I asked the mechanic and he said that a standard screen should work with it, it just needs to be welded on. Thanks

[Guest DaMeat]

Yes, they are a VERY tough press in fit...

[grumpyvette]

oil pump pick-ups don,t normally just slide in.

 

you MUST remove the spring from the bye-pass system in the pump BEFORE welding or brazeing (I prefer brazeing or silver soldering because it tends too allow metal to flow around and seal the pickup tube better than a tack weld does, sealing off even minor posiable air leaks in the oil pump feed. and don,t drop the hot pickup/oil pump cover in water to cool it it can slightly warp the mounting surface, allow it to air cool) and you MUST be very sure the pump pickup is 3/8"-1/2" above the oil pan floor when the pump is installed with the oil pan in place,(don,t forget to reinstall the bye-pass spring or to install the high pressure spring)

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1763&prmenbr=361

most problems are caused by not brazeing the pickup so its at least 3/8" above the oil pan floor or failling to remove the spring durring the welding/brazeing process (that un-tempers and weakens it!) oh and while talking oil pumps don,t forger to loctite the mounting bolt/stud and nut that holds it in place and to radias the oil passage entrance into the main cap, oh and be very sure that the pickup does not extend into the pump enough to jam the impeller gears if your useing a 5 bolt bbc style pump

 

 

http://users.erols.com/jyavins/solder.htm

http://www.tinmantech.com/html/faq_brazing_versus_soldering.html

 

http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm

 

silver soldering is basically lower temp brazeing , the soldering metal flows over the surface and into micro cracks in the surace of the other metal forming a almost unremoveable bond to the other metals surface it allows you to stick iron to steel or brass to steel, it works more or less like normal solder does on copper but at higher temps and has a much stronger grip in addition too working on iron and steel

 

http://www.wondermagnets.com/cgi-bin/edatcat/WMSstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=0001

 

one of these in each corner of the oil pan is a big help in capturing metalic dust

The bottom of a Chevrolet distributor housing can be modified to spray pressurized oil onto the distributor drive gear. The extra lubrication will reduce distributor gear and camshaft gear wear. This is especially important when the gear is used to drive non-standard accessories, such as a high volume oil pump, or a magneto that puts additional loads on it and the cam. When the distributor is installed, the bands at the bottom of the housing are designed to complete the internal right side lifter galley on all small and big block Chevrolet V-8 and 90° V-6 engines. If you hand file a small vertical groove .030" wide x .030 thats the diam. that crane recommends Ive always used the larger groove with no problems deep on the bottom band (above the gear), pressurized oil running between the two bands will be directed downward onto both the gear and the cam This procedure is recommended for all Chevrolet engines no matter what material gear (cast or bronze) or what type of camshaft (cast or steel) you are using keep in mind the groove MUST be lined up with the cam gear when the distrib. is installed

http://www.chevytalk.org/forums/Forum64/HTML/008887.html

 

 

BTW I always stick four of these magnets in the corners of the oil pan sump , you will be amazed at how much metalic dust they pick out of the oil and keep from getting to your bearings,(either one works fine)

 

these are NOT THE REFRIFERATOR MAGNETS YOU PLAYED WITH AS A KID!....ONE OF THESE CAN PICK UP A CYLINDER HEAD

 

high volume oil pumps are a part of a SYSTEM,of matched parts,you should not run JUST a high volume oil pump

high volume oil pumps are designed to be run in engines with a windage screen that speeds the oils return to the pump AND a BAFFLED oil pan that has at least 6 qts with 7-9 qts being even better,the stock big block pump SHOULD WORK FINE IF CORRECTLY INSTALLED.

SHIMMING the return spring will not accomplish a damn thing and may cause problems, because that spring holds a small piston in place that covers a pressure relief port in the oil pump that only opens after the pressure reachs about 65psi-75psi depending on the type of oil pump and spring in use, since the engine never even gets to 65 psi shimming the spring to up the pressure threash hold at which the bye pass port opens is a waste of time.

your problem is more than likely bearing clearances that are to large or a pump pick up thats mounted to close to the oil pan floor.

don,t forget your oil pressure guage could also be wrong (NEEDS TESTING) and that some oil filters cause problems . and theres a plug in some big block oil passages under the rear main cap that needs to have been installed correctly (the mark V & mark VI)engines I think

 

BTW, before you weld or braze a oil pump pick-up to the pump body you should remove the bypass spring and piston from the pump, and re-install them AFTER the pump COOLS to prevent the spring and piston from being heat damaged , and let the parts air cool slowly, dropping hot parts in water could potential warp alignment of the pump parts.

it also helps to install the gears with a light coating of vasaline, then coat the pump all over with oil, to allow the pump to get a good suction seal almost instantly and to prevent rust if your not filling the oil pan and priming the engine within a day or so!

 

oil pumps rarely make much noise, unless, the drive shaft driving the oil pump, is rubbing on the block which will happen if you install a standard drive shaft in a 400 type block which requires the drive shaft with the smaller diameter midsection. Or you forget to install that little metal or nylon collar that keeps it aligned Or the clearances inside the oil pump or not checked, and is partly binding or in some cases of the oil pump has ingested, some small bits of metal or other foreign material.the standard high-performance oil pump drive shaft looks like the one below ,it has a steel collar and is made from a stronger than normal steel

 

It should never be used in a 400 type blocks, and I don't use them on any engine builds the AARP style with the reduced cross-section of metal is the preferred type, when you do get around the checking the clearances between the gears of the oil pump, and a removable floor plate, the end play clearances should be no more than .003 maximum, .002 preferred, you'll see one driven gear and one drive gear, I normally pull off the driven gear and carefully drill of the 1/16 inch holes in the bottom of the gear tooth slot, at three places spaced vertically, and horizontally one third of the way around an up-and-down on those seven to 12 gear teeth have(depends on the pump your using) if done correctly and carefully this modification at least in theory aids the oil flow sporting that driven gear, as in most engine mods, no one thing does tell a lot, but the accumulation of a lot of little things and modifications, makes for a winning engine combination.

 

another potential source of problems and noise that you should but know about is that, YOU must always install and aluminum bronze distributor gear on a steel cam normally these are roller cam's than normal distributor gear is made of what looks like cast-iron will not work on a steel roller cam a steel roller cam will quickly destroyed a standard gear that's why you must use the aluminum bronze gear.... unless , the steel cam has had pressed on cast-iron gear to match the standard distributor gear.

almost every sbc engine I build uses a standard voluum big block pump or a high voluum standard pressure oil pump with no problems at all, my 383 in my 1985 vette gets pulled out and checked , new rings and bearings just as a standard rebuild about every 18 months and not once has either the distrib. or cam gear show excessive or for that matter even measurable wear, the fact that I run a 9.5qt oil pan, with magnets that pick up all metalic dust, good oil filters, and 90% plus synthetic oil, a groove in the lower distributor oil band, that sprays a constant stream of oil onto the contact point I think is the main factor READ THIS http://www.melling.com/highvol.html http://www.melling.com/engoil.html http://www.melling.com/miscon.html

now think it thru,

(1)pressure is the RESULT of resistance to oil flow

(2) the high voluum pump can push about 25% more oil

(3) the oil pump bye-pass circuit limits the max pressure in either size pump to about 65lbs-75 lbs MAXIMUM before it BYE-PASSES all additional oil voluum

(4) the engine can accept and use only the max flow voluum that the engine passages can flow at the max pressure the pump provides , at any point less than max pressure the passages can flow only what the pressure and voluum provided by the pump supplies

(5)if the bearing clearances can flow more than the pump provides in voluum and pressure at any rpm level the film of cooling oil that provides a cushion between the bearing surfaces are at risk of not being supported and seperated by that cushion of oil

(6) now since the sweep voluum is greater with the high voluum pump it will reach that bye-pass circuits max pressure at about 25% lower rpms and supply a POTENTIALLY higher voluum of oil to the supply passages/bearings SO...

(7)all a high voluum pump does is provide the maximum oil flow the engine can use up to the max pressure allowed by the bye-pass circuit at a 25% lower rpm level if the system can reach max pressure, but it also supplies 25% more oil at every rpm level below that point to provide additional cooling and protection for the engine. and if the engine can flow more than the stock pump can provide the high voluum pump helps fill the need faster

(8)oil flow through the bearing clearances INCREASES at a faster rate as the rpms increase

(9) in most engines the oil flow can be provided by the stock pump IF the clearances are close to stock AND THE RPM LEVELS ARE KEPT IN THE idle-6000rpm range but if rpm levels exceed 6000rpm,or if bearing loads greatly exceed the stock hp levels, or the clearances are greater than stock the high voluum pump is a good idea

[Guest woodyhooten]

Thanks for all the info grumpy, incredibly informative as always, I'm glad we have gurus like you around. With the soldering, is this something I can do with the typical soldering iron that you pick up at RadioShack, or do I have to have an alcohol lamp and blow pipe like mentioned in the soldering article? Is this something that could be done with something as simple as JB Weld or should it be soldered or brazed at all costs?

 

Also, once I've decided on my method of sealing the pickup, what is the best way to actually get the pick up installed? My main problem is that I was having difficulty getting the pickup into the pump. Should I hammer it on (obviously never a good idea with any piece of machinery) or is there some preferred tool for installing the pickup? Anyway, thanks for all the info, those are some cool magnets.

[grumpyvette]

careful work with a flat file on the pickup tube to slightly reduce its outside dia. is what I do first, I then install the pump in a vise useing wood to pad the jaws and find a open end wrench that JUST fits the pickup tube shoulder and place it their then just a few taps on the wrench drives the tube into the pump body

I normally use a oxy-acetolee torch to braze the tube into place,J&B weld will not hold up!

I also use these AFTER BRAZEING

 

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=107138&prmenbr=361

 

btw if you use this use a LOCK NUT ON THE ASSEMBLY BOLT, the kind with the nylon ring in the threads works well.

[Guest woodyhooten]

Thanks for the tip on the pickup retainer, I'm gonna go pick on of those up with the pickup. I didn't think that JB Weld would work for this, I was just wondering since someone mentioned it... (kinda makes me wonder about the quality of their 350) Can I use a standard soldering iron and solder to seal the pickup or should I find someone to braze it for me? Thanks again, grumpy!

[grumpyvette]

I seriously doubt a soldering iron gets hot enough to melt silver solder correctly, normal solder is not going to stick or hold

[Guest woodyhooten]

rats! oh well, thanks for all the help, you're amazing