Guest tejas74260 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Alright, lets start out basic. I have a 260z (feb.74) and after getting an offer from a friend at work for a almost new t3/t04 hybrid (dont know the exact specs but i dont think it's too much turbo) for 300 bucks (thats what he's offering but i can prob get for less, prob from somewhere else too), i've been putting a lot of thought into turbo'ing my z. The problem that has plagued me for some time is that im only 17 and still learning a lot about working on cars. When i bought my z, the entire fuel system was sludged (it was sitting with gas in it for 8 years). after re-doing the whole system (including installing some 1970 SU carbs), i've managed to get it running and tuned well, as well as perform a little maintenence on it like thermostat, oil, plugs...basically a lot of stuff that you guys would consider incredibly mundane. Although my mechanical skills might not be the best (im learning a lot though), my knowledge of internal combustion engines has immensely grown in the past couple years, so here's some questions i have about this turbo process for you. alright, i'll probably do what seems to ya'll as the easiest way to start and purchase a L28et. and i've read enough to know what to look for with those engines. ok, heres some other stuff i bought a r200 with 3.90 gears that came from a 280zx, so no need to wrry about overwhelming the 180. but, as far as the transmission is concerned, will my stock 4 speed be able to take about 250WHP (hopefully that much) with a strong clutch or does it need to be upgraded? because i heard the non bw 5-speeds are basically the same design with an extra gear, and arent too advanced as far as strength is considered (i might be wrong) Fuel management, prob one of the most important items (at least when it comes to my abilities). Is megasquirt something that can be taken on by someone like me or do i need to try to stick with the stock ECU? THATS MY MAIN CONCERN about what i can and can't do. everything else as far as FI conversion (new tank, FI pump, main and return lines) i think im ok with that. Intercooler, i can do enough research to find a design that's sufficient. BUT, would ya'll happen to know what kind of flow characteristics (CFM) the intercooler needs to have if it's going to be pushed a max 15 PSI? thats another one. well, im not sure i can include anything else, because thats all i can think of that i might have an issue with. if ya'll can come up with anything else that would be very helpful. let me know what you think. thanks Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Don't just buy that turbo without knowing the specs. There is a huge range of T3/T04's, some will work well in a Z, some distinctly not so well. Find out the A/R's and trim of that particular turbo first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tejas74260 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Don't just buy that turbo without knowing the specs. There is a huge range of T3/T04's, some will work well in a Z, some distinctly not so well. Find out the A/R's and trim of that particular turbo first. yeah, thats why i wasnt sure if i was gonna buy the one from him, he hasnt had time to give me them, well, he keeps forgetting. However, i learned how to read a compressor map, and found out that a very well/matched t3/t4 is the one with the to4e 50 trim compressor. so if he doesnt have that, i'll search elsewhere. anyway, i'll see what's out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 T04E with a 50 trim, and 0.63 A/R would be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Yeah but the turbo itself is only the tip of the iceberg.... (as is this sentance in yet another long post ) You'll need an efi intake, turbo exhaust manifold, the efi system itself stuff of course, but by the way you CAN get away with running the stock 240 fuel tank, I have for over a year and have had no problems with it... with that hybrid turbo you're almost definately going to want some method of better fuel control and the stock EFI alone will not be able to supply enough fuel for a T3/O4 or at least, really wont do it well without some compromises. I've also been eyeing the megasquirt for months and months and though it looks like getting one and getting it together and working on it's own doesn't seem TOO hard (mind you I've always been technically inclined with electronics and computers), tuning it is a whole 'nuther issue and one I personally know I wouldn't trust myself with. Give me too much stuff to mess with (all those parameters) and inevitably I'm mess something up. On the flipside, there are a couple guys out there who've already got them up and running and could probably get you a long ways in with the basic tuning, just by giving you the maps they are using. Optionally you could just go with bigger injectors on stock EFI, 370cc or 420cc's, and maybe an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and you can fiddle with the stock efi/afm enough to get that running pretty good all around, and then get maybe a couple additional injectors and an additional injector controller to give you more fuel only on the top end if you're gonna run a lot of boost, where the stock ZXT efi ALWAYS seems to be insufficient. Alternately you could just start out with a mostly stock setup... just get an entire motor and EFI out of a 280ZXT or just get the whole ZXT. This would get you started pretty quickly and would work well, and with a good intercooler, fuel pump, some extra fuel (me and a few other guys are running a rising rate fuel pressure regulator and getting good results with stock injectors, most would suggest just going with bigger injectors though), boost controller and some other things you could easily get very close to 250hp to the wheels with the stock turbo, even more than 250 if you push it a bit. You can get the car running and up to 200hp to the wheels w/o touching fuel at all and w/o even running an intercooler. For the clutch, I'm running a 100% STOCK clutch disk, and a heavy duty Daikin pressure plate. This set only cost me about $130 vs. much more expensive Centeforce, ACT etc. clutch setups. The pedal is a little stiffer than stock, and the car is very easy to deal with even in traffic, and is easy to get rolling smooth. As opposed to when I was running a 6 puck metallic clutch... man that thing was a beast. It chattered very bad... very hard to get a smooth rolling start with it, and the pedal was super stiff, not good when dealing with los angeles traffic daily. Anyways... even up at estimated 230-240rwhp and 260ftlbs of torque, the stock clutch has held fine and I abuse it. You could run all this on a 4 speed tranny but eventually you would probably be happier getting an early 80's 5 speed from a ZX. Either trans will take 250hp no problem... you dont need the BW 5 speed. Then just upgrade to the better turbo and EFI setup as time and money allow... or do it all at once if said time and money are already in abundance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 T04E with a 50 trim, and 0.63 A/R would be perfect. Well, 50 trim likes high boost, like in 20 psi up. I would go with 57 or 60 trim, they will make more power per psi than a 50 trim. If you look at the 50 trim, it's got alot thicker blades than the other compressor wheel. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tejas74260 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 well, it looks to me that it's a pretty good match as shown whn plotted on its compressor map. the left to right flat area is from 3250-6500 rpm, respectively. i was thinking of running either of the two "low boost levels", that being 10-15 psi. take a look for yourself, this was plotted from a l28et: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Yeah, it does look good on map. specially if you going for 20 psi. but got to also consider the turbine wheel too. with Stage III it won't flow like the map you listed. I've seen and had a 60-1 Zcar(s) and I still think it'll make more power than 50 trim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 50 trim is pretty much 'the perfect turbo' for a street L28. At least, it is according to that link... I recently went over that link showing all the different compressor maps with the L28 plotted on them, here's the url: http://www.atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/turbo/turbomaps/index.htm 50 trim definately looks the most efficient for the L28, at least out of the turbos mapped out on that web page. You say the 50 trim likes high boost, but by that link it looks like the 60 wants way more engine than a 'shrimpy' 2.8L.. it barely get's INTO it's efficiency range, let alone passes it. Not sure how the turbine wheel affects things here... but if that page is any indicator than it definately seems 50 trim is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 The turbine will produce back pressure, more back pressure, less cfm, lb/min. Those maps are usually P trim and other T4 turbine wheels. Alot less pressure than T3 stage III wheel. And due to the thick blades on 50 trim, I think it's actually alittle bit heavier wheel than 60 trim. I'll go weight it today. what we need is a different turbo back to back dynos to really see the result. anyone with a 50 trim dyno? I got one for a 60-1/stageIII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 If you are looking for more power then by all means a 57 or 60 trim will be better. I like the complete package approach though. I like a car that is really drivable in all conditions. Fast spool, etc. Search the turbo forum a bit, there has been lots of discussion on the T3/T04E 50trim there, a couple of guys that have been through a lot of turbos highly recommended that setup as a great all around unit. If you are looking to drag race, you might want a turbo that makes more power in a narrower RPM range. Anyway, dyno results would be super, but only if they show the entire curves and are done on the same dyno/same car/same day/etc. Too much varience otherwise. Yo2001, I am not disputing your results with the 60-1/stage III at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tejas74260 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 If you are looking for more power then by all means a 57 or 60 trim will be better. I like the complete package approach though. I like a car that is really drivable in all conditions. Fast spool' date=' etc. Search the turbo forum a bit, there has been lots of discussion on the T3/T04E 50trim there, a couple of guys that have been through a lot of turbos highly recommended that setup as a great all around unit. If you are looking to drag race, you might want a turbo that makes more power in a narrower RPM range. Anyway, dyno results would be super, but only if they show the entire curves and are done on the same dyno/same car/same day/etc. Too much varience otherwise. Yo2001, I am not disputing your results with the 60-1/stage III at all.[/quote'] Totally agree with you, i want a fast street car, not a dyno queen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 exactly, so why go with heavier 50 trim rather than a lighter 60 trim or 57 trim? 60 trim would spool faster. I don't know for sure without the real number but I think there are more options than just a 50 trim. 50 trim really doesn't flow much at lower psi. 50trim is a good wheel. Specially for car like 1.8T VW and DSM's because they like high boost. 20-22 psi on pump. 28-30's on race gas. I don't think many L6 sees that much boost. And my car was 100% street car. I drove it everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 no one saying you can't drive a 50 OR 60 every day and make great power either way, but Yo what you're saying doesn't seem to jive with what those compressor maps are saying.... though I'll very quickly admit that there's no way I know nearly as much about this stuff as you do. Also there definately do seem to be a LOT more options than either of those two, you really should check out that link, like 10 different compressor maps up there. 54 and 57 trim also seem to be really good choices, but the 50 trim map shows it to stay much more efficient given the air flow of the L28, than any other turbo listed there, even at a 'low' 10psi. Why don't these maps account for the turbine side anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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