Guest Anonymous Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 rods need to be redone and the heads... well ones a head from a boat engine the other head is the right one but has a big crack in the valve gide so its trash too good news... the crank is good and the block from what he could see was good hes going to drip it again to get all the crap off so he can have a better look it it he said there was alot of gunk on it well this sucks I guess I have to look at this on the + side since now if I put nice heads on it I can push 400BHP+ easy but I don't want to spend the cash... anyone have good heads if not he was talking about dart heads $849 from summit 72cc rods 220 or 240 depends on what kind I get and pistons... hmmm this is starting to hurt rods pistons everything else even crank I don't care but heads.. ouch ohwell tomorrow he will let me know if the block is for sure good or not he still said its not bad for 50 bucks since it was never bored and clean looking so far other then dirt kinda dirty Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 Theres probably very few people on this board that wouldn't cry when they totaled up their receipts. I think its probably worth it in the end. Also, keep an eye on Ebay, occasionally there are good deals there on heads... ~Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 Yup, welcome to the wonderful world of High Performance. It ain't cheap. A good head for the budget build is the Vortec L31 head. At about 420.00 a pair assembled, it is really decent. Same size valves as the old small fuelie heads at 1.94 intake, 1.5 exhaust, the rest of the stats are here: http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?action=prod_detail&catid=277&pid=140 They make a higer performance version for about 600.00 per set that has better valve springs for lift to .550 its stats are here: http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?action=prod_detail&catid=277&pid=782 Both of these heads require a Vortec bolt pattern intake manifold (Edelbrock makes one in the performer line) If you want to go aluminum, you can get a set of Corvette aluminum heads for about 770.00 its stats are here: http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?action=prod_detail&catid=277&pid=147 Just some options to the more expensive edelbrock or Dart heads, they may flow more, but cost accordingly. $.02, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 thanks thats an idea for a cheap fix 400 bucks is not "as bad" =`( makes me think 1000-2000 bucks later I could have a nice SDS fuelsystem in my Z all I would need is a new turbo with pistons and rods to hold the boost=) I guess this is still cheaper anymore heads out there? thanks so far =) Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 Jeff, Lone has made some excellent suggestions. A couple of alternatives would be the Edelbrock Performer RPM and Trick Flow 23* from Summit. Both have some decent flow numbers, are aluminum and are available complete for less than a grand... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 talking to my mech shop today about the vortec heads he said I would need a new intake "knew that one" but also would have to do some mods to the block to make it work he said he would not do it if it was him but to keep doing my homework and to call him if I have any questions on anything=) I really like this shop so far I just talked to my old boss tonight about keeping an eye open for some heads he might be able to find something for cheap if not Im looking at 800 bucks or more.... atlest they come with valves springs and so on Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 I'm with Chris - Edelbrock has at least on eset of heads that's not AS expensive as some of th eothers and flows well - it's what I've got Trick Flow has one too I think. All in all $800 for heads isn't bad! Never heard that you've got to modify the block to run Vortech heads - did he detail what this mod was? Super Chevy loves those heads! Go aluminum if you can though, you can run more compression and the weight will be less over the front axle. The Edelbrock "Performer" heads run $935 in Jegs (350-6089) and on a 350 with 9.5:1 compression, the right intake etc. made 420hp. These are what I've got I believe (I'd have to check to be sure). Look at GM's PM rods too. I'm not sure where the $200+ figure you got was from but the PM rods MIGHT be cheaper, I'm not sure. However GM claims that they're stronger than the old "pink" rods and cheaper too so they ought to hold fine for you... Keep us posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 He told me what kind of mods but it was like me talking to you about music track 8 was weird and when I changed it to a .mid from .orc I lost my reverb and pedal also for some reason I keep losing a note on cha10 with that drum roll... get my point? lol he said something about needing a jig to do the job and that he did not have it but could get it hes pretty much leaving everything up to me hes not pushing for me to do one thing or the other he told me today to hold off till I do my homework before doing anything else to it so far for baking the block pulling all valves and everything from the heads checking the heads rods and crank baking the block again to clean the rest of the junk off since it was so dirty he has my tab at 50bucks is that good or bad for price? sounds good to me looking at summit for prices summit rods are 219 for pressed pin or 239 for bushed pin talking to the sells rep at summit he said the cheapest heads they had would be the world products heads atlest the crank is good =) any one have any figures on the HP this engine would put out with dart heads with cam and intake to match? hmmm not sure what CR but I want something that will run on 93 gas 420BHP sounds fun for a 2800LBS car =) what kind of 1/4 mile times do you see? Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 Jeff, what were your short and long term goals for this project? (I don't recall if you did say) $50 deals can grow to a grand or more pretty fast. If your budget is tight you may want to keep looking for another motor and just accept your $50 loss (may get that for core fee). It's a great option IMO how you can install a cheap/decent used motor and do all the conversion work and later on as funds are available build up the motor you want, meanwhile driving a fun V8Z the whole time:-) (what I did) Your mech. may have thought the vortec's 64cc might result in too high a comp. ratio (but if you need new rods that should still be variable??). The Vortec's go on any normal/older sbc block with no mods. You do need the newer intake (not much chance used their, others you can get %70 new and below) which ads to the cost. And for expandibility mods to the vortecs as mentioned to get into any midline lift. If you go with alum. heads the edelbrock seem to have the best quality IME. I found too many Twisted wedge crack/return stories to go with their 'newer' product, maybe it's improved in the past two years. Also seemed odd the chevy mags have many edel. heads on motors in articles but I v. rarely read about a TW head. I would not go with the Vette L98 heads (old design now), vortecs outflow them handily. The L98 sluggish exhaust ports are the reason the ZZ4 cam has such a dual pattern/higher exhaust duration on it (accomodates slow exhaust on L98 ports). The money to step to an edelbrock Al. head or similar is v. well spent if Al. is desired. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 Jeff, I agree with Jim regarding the powder metal rods, and Scoggin Dickey has then for $204.95 per set. They advise they are rated for up to 550hp. Scoggin Dickey also has Edelbrock Performer RPM head for $904.95. You may want to check them out at htt://www.sdpc.com They have some pretty decent deals. You may also want to check out Doug Herbert Performance as they have some decent deals on roller cams and roller lifters if you are leaning in that direction. Their address is http://www.herbertperformance.com/index.html Good Luck and let us know what components you decide to use... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nosz350 Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 JEFF, the vortec heads are the best head for the buck.we run them on a dirt track car.we took off a set of 461x heads and replaced them with vortec heads, we thought GOD had layed a hand on the car.no mods to the block,only thing i would say to do is cut out the exh. side(behind the values)if you can wait save your money and buy the FAST BURN heads. it's a aluminum copy of the vortec.check some of your mag. they had write up in there about how vortec out flowed the bowtie heads.hey man you talking about what a machine shop cost, i've got $1700 in a set rods, piston and crank. i took may block to machine shop to get it roughed in (don't ever buy a bowtie block)they told me $500 its never ending!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 For roller rockers you can't beat the value of this sale at Sallee on Comp Cams chromoly's at $225, usual is ~$300 and they are a v. good rocker IMNSHO. I pasted in the some info below. They're commonly used on up to 700hp setups (ie. last step before girdle etc.http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/sales.html Comp Cams Pro Magnum Rocker Arms Limited Time Offer Incredibly Strong, made of 8650 chromemoly steel. Pro Magnum Rocker Arms have less weight (5%) at the valvethen most aluminum rockers. Super Duty Large Diameter Trunion with more needle bearing. Other features include and integral pushrod seat that insures accuracy and saves weight, a unique rocker design also provides plenty of clearance for most high performance valve springs and an affordable price. 1311-16, CS 1.55 3/8 Pro Magnum, Chevy V8 265-400** $225.00 1314-16, CS 1.55 7/16 Pro Magnum, Chevy V8 265-400*-** $225.00 * - Must use screw-in studs and guide plates. ** - Will not replace late model rail rocker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 I want to talk to my mech shop monday about the heads again take down some notes so I can fill you guys in last night I ran across Premiun Performance Heads 76CC 2.02/1.6SS Valves $429 with hardened seats $469 thats for a pair anyone know about them? vortec heads sound like the way to go so far but I still want to go over my options Ross for starters I want atlest 350BHP right now I have around 280-300BHP running 14-15PSI boost I don't want to go down from what I have now main thing is getting everything installed so it works in the end I want as much power as I can get "in the end being 10-20 years lol" 500+BHP sounds great running 1/4mile under 12secs is even better under 10 would be great also SCCA what can I say I love speed Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 17, 2000 Share Posted December 17, 2000 Could always build it for 350hp with a strong bottom and add some juice for close to 500hp. If you can hook it up, that should get you probably in or damn close to the 10's. Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted December 17, 2000 Share Posted December 17, 2000 I'm still leaning towards the EdelbrockPM combo. Jim Pace sells them in the $190 range in my (free) catalog, not sure on the heads as they aren't GM. I highly recommend getting a GM parts catalog and reviewing some of th estuff in it. For instance - those Vortec heads were first used in a 1996 pickup truck with the RPO L31 option. If they cost $209 new what do you figure they would cost at a wrecking yard? Possibly attached to a motor? They have other hi-flow iron heads too in the under $400 range. I still liek the aluminum though. It's lighter, can be repaired, allows higher compression, etc. etc.. Yeah, it's more expensive but imagine buying iron now and later on buying aluminum - you'll have thrown away money. As for machining the Vortecs - he may be talking about the valve guides (I think). Apparently to run a decent lift cam the springs won't fit over the seals and they musy be machined down. I think the Vortecs are a great bargain head but... I guess I feel that at a certain point of cheapness you're past the point of diminishing returns? Make sense? Try to figure out, total, what you'll be out building this motor before you get too cheap. Penny wise pound foolish could bite you on the butt! I do think a strong end with a shot of NOS is worth considering... P.S. Factory "race" blocks liek some of the GMs? You shoudl see what some fo the Ford blocks require. Finishing of the lifter bores?! Some of that stuff is WAAAY rough. A shame NOS got bit by that - $500 on a Ford block for finish machining would be a bargain (gulp). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 18, 2000 Share Posted December 18, 2000 An article was just writter about a 383 build-up in one of the Chevy mags. I think it was Super Chevy, but I can't remember for sure. I have the mag, it's just not with me right now. Anyway, they dyno'd several heads including the Vortec and the Trickflow. The aluminum Trickflow made about 30 hp more than the Vortec, it also made more torque. I think the final number was somewhere in the 420's gross. They also mentioned the mods needed for the Vortec to fit I believe it had something to do with the pushrods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted December 18, 2000 Share Posted December 18, 2000 Yup, it was Super Chevy. An article on the Vortech heads too. The only thing I recall on pushrods was to use the rail rockers - since rollers would have problems without mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Bayley Posted December 19, 2000 Share Posted December 19, 2000 Jeff, I think I may have a $50 solution for you. I currently have a set of Cast Iron 1977 Camaro Z28 heads sitting in my shed collecting dust. I'd be willing to get rid of them for $50. They are a little "grungy" and could use a touch up, but they don't leak and they lay flat. The chamber size is 76cc and the valves are 1.90 in, 1.50 out. Obviously not the choice for high performance, but I'm trying to provide a cheap alternative. The springs are original and have never been replace, as are the valves. The water passages look ugly and there is a bit of carbon in the chambers. I think a good hot tanking at your local shop will take care of this nicely. While these heads are not all about high performance, I still managed to run off a couple of high eleven second quarter mile passes with these heads. Let me know if you are interested. I don't think shipping them would be the greatest option, as the courier (sp?) chargers would be greater than the price of the heads themself. If you are interested, I could possibly meet somehwere in Ohio and drop them off (I live in Detroit). E-mail me off line if this sounds like something you would like to pursue. Otherwise, You might want to check your MIDI sync track on the auxillary loop channel and make sure your effects (I assume your running some sort of DSP) aren't feeding back into the monitor lines... I hate it when that happens -Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 20, 2000 Share Posted December 20, 2000 lol I was just saying stuff lol but it does seem to drop reverb and the sustain Im using MOP if you know what that is midi orc plus I don't use midi files that much since alot of my soundsare not GM so a low hit will sound like a hi hat "is it hi or high?" do you have any midis I could hear? ok about the heads the guy I bought the engine from had some heads laying around but it sounds like if I go used Im going to need mech work done sounds like a good valve job with mech work will run around 300-400 bucks "from what I have priced today" I can get the vortec heads for 400 or so bucks I need to find a intake for it with roller rockers and pushrods once I find the total price and see how much more/cheaper it would be then I will know more on what to do thanks for the offer btw Im in Maryland thats a nice drive lol Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Bayley Posted December 20, 2000 Share Posted December 20, 2000 Yes... The wide open fields of farms, that is.... OHIO. Truly an American experience. I'm glad to hear you are thinking about putting some money into a set of heads. The heads I got would have worked, but they really could use a $300 - $400 "touch up". Let me know if you change your mind. As for midi files, my recording days have gone the way of the Dodo for the past three years. I started playing around with cars, and at the same time, my recording partner (who owned the studio) had a nervous breakdown. It was time for me to get out. Sorry, no old midi files. -Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.