dj paul Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 it looks wierd and offcenter in the pictures but they are nice and straight and strong, no funny creaking noises after jumping on them and beating them with the hammer. in the picture of the frame, the front part has been welded since then, im at school right now killing some time and i will get some more pictures up later. the other frame rail is still in place so i can line up the suspension points and make new ones, i have made brackets inside the welded joints to strenthen them and i plug welded them in place. im going to spray por-15 all over the place so what you see on my car never happens again.http://photobucket.com/albums/a172/djpaul8/ please tell me what you all think and any suggestions/ideas because this is my first time welding, body work, frame work, almost any work lol. thanks in advance paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 The only thing that looks a little iffy is your welds on the frame, The beads looks like they are sitting on top of the metal. Are you sure the weld penetrated? This weld has to be strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj paul Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 ya the welds penetrated, i just got it as hot as possible, im using a gasless welder and ive used a welders hammer to verify these welds arent cold. i also welded from the inside and i made a strong bracket for the inside of this joint. thanks for the concern though man. ill show you pictures of it later when i can and youll see what i mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj paul Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 I still have to grind them down and make them nice, gasless welders are hard to make the welds look good but their bead is nice and hot. but theres the bracket and i made another bracket on the front side plugwelded in thats going to help hold the fender skirt part. i also have a very strong bracket that i had machined to hold suspension and sway bar in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 You're right the welds do look like they are on the cold side. If you could get an argon gas kit, it would help. That patch from the back side looks pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWRex Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Argon gas is a must.especially for the thin stuff.Pratice on some scrap for a while,it'll save you alot of grinding wheels!Did you install subframe connectors while you were at it?Are they under the floorboards?Ground clearances?Keep it up!http://memimages.cardomain.net?member_images/1/web/2101000-210199/2101023_12.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okimoto Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I've been lurking for a while, looking at other people's frame repairs due to the situation my car is in. How much would it have costed in comparison to doing it yourself? Did you ever consider getting it done by a dedicated body shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj paul Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 I've been lurking for a while' date=' looking at other people's frame repairs due to the situation my car is in. How much would it have costed in comparison to doing it yourself? Did you ever consider getting it done by a dedicated body shop?[/quote'] yes but the cost was way too much for me, they said over a grand and they werent promising anything. i believe these rails will be much stronger. i have a friend who owns a frame and body shop and he said this would be ok with the brackets in place. the welds look different because its not setup for gas. i use flux core wiring. the welds dont look as nice but i believe they are a little bit stronger since gasless welding is hotter. this cost me nothing because my neighbor has a machine shop and made the rails out of 18 gauge steel and they are very very strong. and i borrowed a welder from a fellow zcar owner who just got done with his car, which was supposedly in a clint eastwood movie. lol. oh and for the subframe connectors i havent added that part of the frame in yet. the rail under the floorboards isnt there yet im going to get it up on my friends rottiserie to do the underbody stuff. i tried to and i burned myself numerous times with molten metal =( oh and the reason i knew it penetrated is because the backside of the welds were glowing hot all along where i had welded, and then i jumped on it. when it was just the top part welded. i think it was a perfect weld actually. i tested it with the welders hammer, and then with my weight, so i guess its ok. but that would suck if i was going one way and my engine and suspension go another! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj paul Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 but do you all think that is going to be strong enough with the welds being good and everything? especially the way the front is welded on. does that look strong enough? i have a little bracket in there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj paul Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 mike you were right about that weld. i ground it down and redid it. now its perfect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Good! You can't be too careful, especially with the frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj paul Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 ya man, definately, thanks for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusPuppis Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Flux Core wouldnt be any stronger than argon MIG welding. The heat doesnt have (to my knowledge) any real effect on the strength of the weld itself. The wire, base metal, prep work and penetration do. Of course, more heat means more penetration but with thinner metals a 100+amp MIG should be more than sufficient to get all the penetration you would ever need, gas or gasless. Granted, when welding thicker metals you could get more penetration with Flux Core allowing for a stronger weld. I have a 100amp Lincoln MIG I run Flux Core through and its a real pain in the *** on thin metal. I have practice metal from my pans (what little there was..) and Ive been trying to run test beads on it.. I burn through that stuff as fast as I can get the arc started. I'm kinda concerned with my machines low-end capabilities. Its a staged machine (I dont remember the term off-hand.. tapped voltage? or something) meaning my amp adjustments are pre-set. I choose A, B, C or D, lol. Wirespeed is fully adjustable though.. Which has a real effect on heat and penetration but even running as low as I can go I have real trouble holding an arc without burning straight through the moment I try to form a puddle. What machine did you run and what settings? Just curious. I see your in Kentucky.. Ever come down through Lexington? Thats where I'm located. Oh, and for subframes, check out 240Hoke's website. He did some great frame repair work. I'll be emulating his subframe's when I get my steel later this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silicone boy Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 My my subframe welding looked like that in places, mainly because I didn't have the car on a rotisserie and I had to weld in an awkward position (with a Lincoln 135 mig) I debated whether to grind the welds clean, but a welder friend of mine told me to leave it alone-it would be stronger with more metal glopped on. What do you guys think? It's not pretty, but it sure is solid and I've even welded on extra steel reinforcing plates as a backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusPuppis Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Well, you can grind the welds down. If their penetrated properly they will be as strong, or stronger than the base metal itself.. Leaving the beads there will increase strength but I dont know that it would matter in any way. Others more experienced will be able to confirm or deny that though. Me personally, I like the look of weld beads. I'd dress em a little bit. Grind em down some and even it all out but leave some buildup for strength and appearance. You could also grind em down a little and use body filler to kinda mold a smooth "hill" in for looks. Assuming your going to paint the area of course. mainly because I didn't have the car on a rotisserie and I had to weld in an awkward position (with a Lincoln 135 mig) Yeah.. I'll be in that situation before long. I'm hoping to get it as high as I safely can on jackstands to make a little more room. I also thought about getting an engine hoist and hooking it to the engine mounts on the crossmember (engine and such will be removed by then) and using the hoist to lift it way up. Not sure about how safe that would be though. Not that I think a 2 ton engine hoist will drop a car with nothing but the suspension left attached - but since the crossmember isnt meant for that sort of thing I kinda worry it would damage it or something. I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWRex Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Hey Muspuppis,I've got a the same welder,with the argon hookup.I usually set it on the B setting, wirefeed at about2.5,and the gas at around 20 psi with the argon gas for the sheetmetal.leaves a good penetrating bead.If it's on outer panels(quarter panels,etc)stitchweld,let cool,and finish your bead.Sheetmetal warps easily from too much heat!C setting,wirefeed at around 3,for the gasless for the thicker stuff(1/8"subframe connectors,etc.)don't forget to change the leads on the inside of the unit when switching from gas to gasless!The only advice I can give is prep the surface completely,and practice on some scrap until you get the used to the unit,This is a novice talking,But if you practice,you'll lay some strong penetrating welds in no time.Stock up on grinding pads and cutoff wheels too.Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silicone boy Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Yeah.. I'll be in that situation before long. I'm hoping to get it as high as I safely can on jackstands to make a little more room. I also thought about getting an engine hoist and hooking it to the engine mounts on the crossmember (engine and such will be removed by then) and using the hoist to lift it way up. Not sure about how safe that would be though. Not that I think a 2 ton engine hoist will drop a car with nothing but the suspension left attached - but since the crossmember isnt meant for that sort of thing I kinda worry it would damage it or something. I dunno. Actually, the dual engine stand thing works quite well as a rotisserie, but I just wasn't sure how safe it would be with the engine already in the car. I hate welding upsided down with hot slag falling on you (ouch) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Z Draci Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 Wow, that's more work than most people even dream of doing! And they say cancer is difficult to cure . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Looks pretty good to me man, and don't worry, it's gona be a little ugly no mater what with the flux core wire. Just make sure you clean the slag/splater off really good before you paint, trust me. Where it attaches to the firewall looks a little weak to me.. I'd try to fill that in a bit more with weld or maybe even some more metal. Something I've found when welding thin stuff (like body steel) with my little lincoln is you sometimes have to go in 'spurts' as oposed to laying a big long bead. Basicaly, a long run of little spots overlaping will get the same result, but the little bit of time between the welds lets it cool down just slightly, so you don't get blow through. I have a Lincoln weld pack 100 and I COULD get the gas kit, but I like being able to just plug in and weld anywhere. Out side or whatever, there's no gas to get blown away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silicone boy Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Yeah, it's a lot of work but not huge in the overall scheme of things. Besides, the comfort of knowing you have a solid chassis is priceless. I'd do it again in a heartbeat even though I didn't have as much rust as most people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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