alsil Posted September 25, 2000 Share Posted September 25, 2000 What's up! I am using MSAuto lowering springs, and I know you can't use the KYB struts with them, but I was going to use the JTR advice and put the fronts in the back, and use the VW Rabbit struts for the front. Problem is, I don't know what year car. does anyone know? I'm getting pretty close to putting this car on the ground, an I want to get the right stuff. ------------------ http://refuse.netdojo.com/Zcar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted September 26, 2000 Share Posted September 26, 2000 Al, I can't remember the year, but it was a long run with the same struts. Pick anything in the 80s and you should be fine. But the only reason to put in shorter strut cartridges (240Z fronts in the rear, rabbit or MR2 fronts in the front) is because yu have shortened the strut tubes by 1.5-2". Then you'd need the shorter cartridges. Putting lowering springs on top of this combination will lower the car even further. Are you sure you want to go about it this way? The problem with the shorter springs is that they take away suspension bump travel, and you end up hitting the bump stops on large dips, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted September 26, 2000 Author Share Posted September 26, 2000 I was told by MSAuto that I could not use stock struts because the lowering springs would bring them out of range and would bottom out. I wanted to use the KYB struts with these springs, but I haven't bought them because of it. In the JTR manual they said to put the fronts in the back with a 2" spacer under the strut, and use the Rabbit ones in the Front. Is this info correct? I want to lower the car, but if it's nothin gbut a problem, then I may just stay stock height. What do you suggest? ------------------ http://refuse.netdojo.com/Zcar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted September 26, 2000 Share Posted September 26, 2000 The GTI (or MR2) cartridges are needed when you shorten the front struts. My plan is to do the front to back switcho and then section the rears by 4 inches and use them in the front with '85 GTI cartridges. But then, this plan is on hold since my engine recently became infested with demons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted September 27, 2000 Share Posted September 27, 2000 Al, I'm confused by what MSA told you. Yes, if you use lowering springs, you get reduced bump travel and you tend to bottom out more. The higher rate offsets that somewhat, depending on the rate change. If they mean that the stock struts didn't have enough damping to keep up with the higher rate springs, I agree that is probably and issue. I used MSA springs and KYBs and it road rough, maybe that was why. Putting shorter strut cartridges in a stock length strut housing and spacing it up with a spacer underneath it does nothing as far as I can see, except maybe take away from bump travel in the strut. Lowering springs and a performance strut is a proven way to get a lowered car that handles a better on smooth roads (where bump travel is less important) because of the higher spring and strut rates, and the lowering of the Center of Gravity (CG). The preferred way to lower is to section the struts 1.5 to 2" and use shorter cartridges (the stock ones won't fit in the original locations). You can do this and use stock springs, stockish front cartridges in the rear and Rabbit or MR2 struts in the front. But the stock springs are pretty wimpy for performance driving and a lot of torque will bottom them out on take off (in the rear). Hope that helps. Let me know if I'm all wet on this. ------------------ Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project - pparaska@home.com">pparaska@home.com - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted September 27, 2000 Author Share Posted September 27, 2000 You're probably right, it's just beyond my skills to section the strut tubes. My brother's a welder, he might help, but he's busy with his own project (a '43 Willys with 44" tires and a 4.3Vortec), but I don't know yet. I may just use the spring/KYB combo for now, and then figure it out later. I have only until March to have this thing done (going on Power Tour 2001, need to have all the bugs out by May, going to Oregon in last week of March), so I may have to settle on some stuff. If I find a better way by then I will use it. I'm trying to save most of my time for engine/tranny installation. Thanks for the help. ------------------ http://refuse.netdojo.com/Zcar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted September 28, 2000 Share Posted September 28, 2000 the problem is the msa springs....... i've used tokiko and susp techniques on >10 customer cars with Kyb or tokiko inserts and nO problems... you want to make sure that the car has the early strut tops (if its a 280) make sure to remove the rubber bump stops if they are on the strut. or dont waste the $ on them. coilovers arent much more $ than new oem style springs. oh and i have a set of used coilover springs i will sell cheap..... 175 and 200lb with sleeves (new) ------------------ Mike http://www.fonebooth.com raceparts and brakeupgrades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian260ZT Posted September 28, 2000 Share Posted September 28, 2000 So are you saying that the Tokico and S/T springs didnt seem to bottom out as much as the MSA springs? I just installed MSA springs on my early 260 and I have been suprised at how often I hit my bump stops. I feel like they aren't stiff enough OR my BOGE hydraulic shocks arent' up to task of slowing the motion. Any other thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted September 28, 2000 Share Posted September 28, 2000 i dont know who makes the msa springs but have seen 2 cars with problems with them. susp techniques seem to be the best choice for the stock spring style, i have had eibachs and they bottomed out - stupid progressive rate things..... you need to remove the rubber bump stops on the insert...... and the inserts need to be fairly stiff.... if they are wearing out then that compounds the issue ------------------ Mike http://www.fonebooth.com raceparts and brakeupgrades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted September 28, 2000 Share Posted September 28, 2000 clarification....... i heard at one point that tokiko bought out susp tech. so i dont know who currently makes a good stock style spring. also tokiko used to use susp tech springs so they were one and the same. new tokikos look like eibach- junk . (not to be confused with eibach coilovers) thus why i have converted to coilovers. easy - fairly cheap , and unlimited choices and no issue with bottoming out or elsewise ------------------ Mike http://www.fonebooth.com raceparts and brakeupgrades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted September 28, 2000 Author Share Posted September 28, 2000 Alright, what do you guys think of Arizona Zcar's springs? I am looking for a stiff spring, but not crazy stiff. I know I could use the KYB shocks with them. What do you suggest? AL ------------------ http://refuse.netdojo.com/Zcar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 29, 2000 Share Posted September 29, 2000 ArizonaZ? Isn't that the guy who "requires" you to order a grand of fiberglass else he won't ship any? Rude as hell on the phone? He could make THE best parts in the world but if that's the guy I'm thinking of he won't get a dime of my money - ever! Me, I'm going with coilovers and once I figure out how the heck I'm going to redo the entire tail end of my car, having never done it before, I'll be ordering a set from Mikescca The price is right and not much more than most aftermarket springs and probably cheaper than some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted September 29, 2000 Author Share Posted September 29, 2000 Never ordered from them, just fishing. I have to get some sort of idea of what to do with this soon, or I may just go for the MSA springs and KYB's. I am on a budget (My daily driver just blew up-try explaining to a tow truck driver that you lost revese and 1st, and you only want to be towed back 50 feet since the car won't even roll backwards in neutral!!!!!) so I have to put this together with the least modifications, but stock I know just won't cut it for a V8 conversion. I am planning on eventually redoing the entire front and rear suspension, but that's a few years out. I need something that will work well for now, drive well, handle well, and not make too much noise or rattle my teeth. I have a set of stock springs, but I really don't want to use them. Are there any lowering combos that work for STOCK strut tubes? I got the bump steer spacers, and camber bushings, so I can adjust for most changes. Thanks for all your help!! ------------------ http://refuse.netdojo.com/Zcar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted September 29, 2000 Share Posted September 29, 2000 Al, I know this sounds like blasphemy, but a guy I know with little money has a V8 Z (JTR conversion) with big tires and flares, stock 240Z cut down springs (1 coil or so) and a 7/8" front sway bar. I think he has the old Kontrolle struts. I was amazed at how nice this car road and how flat it cornered. A very nice street ride, not too soft or too hard, and pretty darned flat throught the corners. So lowering springs (I'd go with Tokico/ST) and KYBs may not be a bad way to go. You can always add some of those cheesy looking rubber donuts under the lowering springs if it lowers it too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted September 29, 2000 Author Share Posted September 29, 2000 No, That doesn't sound like blasphemy. I have been planning on that because I have not seen a good alternative yet. I don't want the car too stiff, so I'll probably go for that. All that I need right now to finish the chassis setup is the springs/struts, I have everything else or it's on it's way. So we'll see how it all works out. The funny thing is, I know that this is the EASY part. The engine/T-5 install is going to be a challenge. I will be posting some new stuff up on my site Monday or Tuesday, since the pics I took didn't come out too great. My brother has a digital camera and I'll replace pics that didn't come out. May just wind up doing that for everything. Saves me developing film. Thanks for ALL the help!!! ------------------ http://refuse.netdojo.com/Zcar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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