Owen Posted November 9, 2000 Share Posted November 9, 2000 OK, I've started a new thread because the other ones have other topics like what is DOM or ERW, or is the S&W cage ugly, etc. I hope this doesnt confuse anyone. I've been scouring the net looking for roll cage installation articles and have seen one in which a 8 or 10 point cage was installed in a Porsche 911. What intrigued me was that it was test fit then removed, totally welded outside the car and then re-installed. Anyone know of any methods that will let us do the same? I can weld the hoop to the halo first but after that, it looks like the rest will have to be done in the car since the tranny tunnel will be in the way of the front cage legs (if they were welded on first) I also saw a page where the tubes were test fit and then tacked together, but the cage itself was not tacked to the floor. The cage was tipped over so part of it would stick out the door, making welding the roof areas easier. Just looking for tips or tricks to make this easier for me. Owen ------------------ http://www.homestead.com/s30z/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 9, 2000 Share Posted November 9, 2000 Owen, I was planning on tack welding my cage together before welding in the car. It just seems that it would be much easier getting to all of the difficult areas if I could move it around in the car a bit. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted May 27, 2001 Share Posted May 27, 2001 Have you learned anything more since this post????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted May 27, 2001 Share Posted May 27, 2001 Well, I'm 'bout ready to order up a tubing bender from Northern and get some DOM tubing from the local steel supply house (gonna buy a notcher too). I'm gonna put a cage in my wife's Travelall first. It's huge and it should be an easier project overall versus the Z. One thing that bothers me is the ability ot paint the inside of the car. I'm hoping to do the Travelall such that the paint can be done after the fact. But I may end up conceding and having it's interior painted before I finalize the cage. For the much more restrictive Z, I have less hope. For instance, I am very worried that the cage is going to seriously infringe on the tiny amount of interior space that is currently there. I'm planning on using 2 inch tubes for instance, instead of (what I imagine to be) the standard 2.5 inch. I hope to be able to put the car on the track, which is one of the main reasons I want to cage it - seems like most track events require a cage. Helmet plus small cabin plus rollcage can't equal comfort. So it looks like most all of the interior (paint color hiding) trim will have to go. Does anyone with a caged Z still have the interior trim (esp. those thick-ish roof trim pieces)? I may end up just painting the inside grey. I don't know what color I'll end up with for the exterior, but grey's got to be neutral. Everything's orange-red right now and I hate it. Not sure if I'll decide on grey, silver or blue for the final exterior color. Ugh. Planning ahead is no fun. Ah, to be rich and be able to live moment to moment. I can recall the Malasian guy on Zcar.com who had his car painted, decided he didn't like the color, so had it re-painted a different color! Not me - ain't gots the dough for that. Anyway, I am going to make my own cage, so, wish me luck. Yes, I appreciate that it will be difficult. One thing I don't want, and the main reason I'm not just ordering the 10 point from S&W, is that diagonal door bar. This car is a daily driver and there's no way I can live with that huge ordeal for entry/egress 6 times a day. I 'm gonna do a rear 4 point with belt bar and diagonal, a hoop, and front rollover bar. But no door diagonal. I'm planning on putting in some major beefy inner door braces. The real trouble will be in convincing whatever track officials that what I've got is as good as a 10 pt. I am prepared for defeat on that one. It'll suck, but......trade-offs. Some people go and buy a C5, others tirelessly try to duplicate one piece by piece by bead of sweat.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted May 27, 2001 Share Posted May 27, 2001 quote: Originally posted by jeromio: One thing I don't want, and the main reason I'm not just ordering the 10 point from S&W, is that diagonal door bar. This car is a daily driver and there's no way I can live with that huge ordeal for entry/egress 6 times a day...But no door diagonal. Jeromio, I'm 6'2" and I'm going with diagonals, but I'll use clevis joints so i can yank them if I want. Take a look at Scotties GNZ site--you'll see what I mean. I think it is the best of both worlds. Put the clevis in and then you'll be legal for racing, but yank the diagonals for the daily grind. Think about it. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted May 27, 2001 Author Share Posted May 27, 2001 "Have you learned anything more since this post?????" Installed the cage last December. The only part I could do at once was the mainhoop to halo tack weld. Did the rear diganols from the hoop to next to the rear strut tower reinforcements (that thing with the holes). Skipped door bars because couldn't get them to fit around the seats. It's a daily driver. Did the front halo supports in the car, but didn't do the front support bar which connects the two legs. For those who have this, how is knee-space in there? I had the S&W cage but no bender or notcher. I used the pieces of some extra prenotched ends to trace the pattern onto other pieces and guesstimated from there. Have a lot of pipes left over too. Full interior is intact, including the qtr. window panels, which I put on later. Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted May 27, 2001 Share Posted May 27, 2001 I have part of a S&W cage I got from Myron, but have been looking at what Hoover did with his for interior room. I am also looking at using chrome moly tubing in a smaller dia. Maybe 1' .095 anybody seen a cage done like this... Also I am looking for how some of you have done your attaching points for the main hoop..both mounting locations the upper and the seatbelt box... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Jeromio wrote: I'm planning on using 2 inch tubes for instance, instead of (what I imagine to be) the standard 2.5 inch. (Me) You'll want to check this, but I believe 2" is the standard, with 1 3/4 DOM being the alternative to welded pipe. The smaller DOM saves weight without a sacrifice in strength/safety. Jeromio continued: I hope to be able to put the car on the track, which is one of the main reasons I want to cage it - seems like most track events require a cage. (Me again) Most marque club events do not require a cage or even a roll bar in hardtop cars - open tops are another matter entirely. That said, I think it is wise to install a roll bar or better, even for the street. The local Time Trial series does require a roll bar, but not a full cage. If you are planning to go SCCA club racing, check the rules before you start welding - there is a limit on the number of locating points in ITS, for example. Jeromio, one more time: Helmet plus small cabin plus rollcage can't equal comfort. So it looks like most all of the interior (paint color hiding) trim will have to go. Does anyone with a caged Z still have the interior trim (esp. those thick-ish roof trim pieces)? (Me, for the last time; at least you can hope so) I bought a bolt-in kit from Kirk Racing Products in Alabama. Has removable side bars, 1 3/4" DOM (SCCA Legal) tubing, good fit, no interior trim issues. Comfort, seat travel, and use of interior space is compromised for sure, but I find the street/track trade-offs to be OK. I think this is the quick and easy fix, though not optimal. I haven't tested it for survivability, but I am quite certain that the cage will take more than the car it's bolted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Not sure where I got that 2 1/2 inch idea from then. I was poking around inside the car and it seemed like I could live with the 2, but certainly 1 3/4 would be better. I think I'm becoming convinced that the removable door bars are a good way to go for the track. I'm still planning on putting in some side impact bars inside the door, since the removable bars will pretty much be removed 99% of the time. I'm out looking for tubing benders. Harbor freight has a 12 ton for $100 which ought to be sufficient. Gonna buy a &%*$#-load of 1 3/4 and 2 inch DOM tubing and a either a notcher or a holesaw jig. The Travelall should make a good starting project since there's loads of room. Then I'll inflict all my new rollcage-ing skill upon the helpless Z. I like the idea of bolting the cage in place - maybe using some flanges that are welded to the chassis. But then the cage would have to be disassemble-able, in order to remove it from the car, right? I mean, I guess if something has to be done to the car that requires the removal of the cage, it can just be cut out. Hrm. Probably easier to weld the thing in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Just FYI, from what I researched, the requirements for tubing diameter was 1 5/8". This was for both SCCA and NHRA. Don't use this as gospel, but I would certainly confirm it for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 1.75 or 1.625 is standard depending on application... Depending on what you are doing most shops use 0.095 or .120 wall tubing.. DOM is great but alot of roll cages and dirt cars are done with seamed tube. BTW the easiest way I have found to paint a cage is to paint the bars and then weld them in and touch up the weld area... Just food for thought... [ May 29, 2001: Message edited by: Ray ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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