GEICO insurance problems

[Guest Mike]

POP

 

Yeah... they've turned us ALL into cheap whores. It's sad but true.

[Kevin Shasteen]

GreenMonster,

 

I'm sure if you looked at your policy you would find an exclusion that claims you must be have care, custody, and control of your vehicle otherwise there is no coverage and that is why they have suspended/cancelled your policy.

 

I'm not defending them as I've worked for one for 12 years. I dont know your policy yet your comment on why they suspended/cancelled your policy implies there is an exclusion in you not having care, custody, or controll of the vehicle.

 

And yes to another poster who asked if the shops have coverage. Either they have coverage and their carrier removes the shop from exposures to liability or the shop themselves are responsible for any damage while said shop is in care, custody, and control of your vehicle.

 

I typed up a walk through w/the insurance company a few years ago when another member was having trouble with their carrier and saved it. In the next post I will re-post that "long, very long article".

 

Kevin,

(Yea,Still an Inliner)

[Guest Mike]

Kevin... no offense intended regarding my rants toward insurance companies. It's just that I've been cheated each and every time I've made a claim.

[Kevin Shasteen]

Mike - no offense taken as Insurance companies are notorious for screwing people around. Here is the write up on dealing w/insurance companies I saved. Hope it helps someone.

 

1st Entry:

 

I sincerely hope you are not reading this as a result of an accident. Instead, I hope you are reading this as a safety measure in case you ever find yourself involved in an accident.

 

The following comments, on how to deal with the insurance company, are my personal assessments re-sulting from my experiences while employed by one of the top insurance companies for 12 years. I would like you to take what I say as [insight and information] regarding what goes on at an insurance claims center and not legal advice. I feel this insight will aid the reader in forming opinions that will help if and when you have to deal with an insurance company as a result of an auto accident. I believe, as in any field where two parties are competing, it is most important that you understand your opponent’s weaknesses and their strengths.

 

To be thrown in the middle of the Insurance Process and not really understand the issues involved can leave one very frustrated and confused. Especially when you hear the other driver’s carrier begin telling you your car is not worth the amount you thought it was worth or attempting to place blame on you when fault is being addressed. It is better to understand the Insurance Company and their procedures prior to ever actually having to deal with them as a result of an accident.

 

Negotiating an Insurance Loss: If your car is a Classic, Musclecar, or Hot Rod

 

To ensure there are no misunderstandings between you and a representative from another carrier, you can always record your conversations when talking to an insurance adjuster. If you are going to record the conversation then you probably should instruct your adjuster you are recording the conversation. If you prefer to not tell them that too is okay, for your personal records, as all that is required for recording a conversation is that you know it is being recorded. As far as that recorded conversation being admitted into court, should your case go to court, is another issue: for the rules of admissibility of evidence you would need to check with the laws of your state. You should be of the mindset that you are recording the conversation for your personal private records so that if and when any disagreements arise about what was said as opposed to what was not said, you can simply refer back to the tape. It is usually a good idea to let the other party know you are recording the conversation. This will keep the relationship between you and the insurance company in good standing.

 

A perfect place to begin is the process in how an insurance claim arises, gets processed, and concluded from A-Z. Before we go through this exhaustive list of the behind the scenes elements of a claim, it is important that you the reader realize – every claim from an insurance company’s point of view is handled from the get go as if that claim will be heard in front of a judge and or before a jury. So keep this in mind when you are speaking to the insurance company. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law if settlement is not reached outside of court and the file goes to litigation.

 

The Insurance Company is not your friend. They are merely a facilitator in that they hold the check pos-sibly owed to you in light of damages.

 

What determines a righteous act verses a reckless incident, which results in an accident, is in the relation-ship of a duty or responsibility that exists from one individual to another. A duty can be contractually and explicitly written, or in the absence of a written contract an expectation can be an issue of safety that is merely implied. Regardless of the scenario, what behavior actually determines the innocence of a party involved and any and or all monetary reward as indemnification for damages received from the accident, can be summed up in one tidy equation. This equation has four short categories. The categories are found within the time frame from which the incident occurs to the moment the damaged party is made whole. Here’s the equation:

 

Incident Occurs = Beginning of Claim

 

1) Duty Owed

2) Duty Breached

3) Fault Proven, Accepted, or Denied

4) Damages Awarded or Dismissed

 

Damages Paid, Complaint Appealed, or Claim Dismissed = End of Claim

 

This formula is an over simplification of any legal process. Once you have a basic understanding of the insurance process, you should be able to use the formula for determining exactly how close you are to concluding the claim. The term Indemnification is the vernacular used by the legal process. Indemnifica-tion is a word implying that you will be put back where you were economically prior to the accident. So if your car is totaled and your person injured it is implied that you are out of pocket a great deal. Not only for the cost of your car, as well as the fact you no longer have a car to drive, but also the expenses in-curred for the treatments of your injuries and personal responsibilities you are no longer able to perform as a result of those injuries. All this adds up to money out of your pocket.

 

In using the above formula you find yourself on the other end of the phone with the other driver’s carrier for the first time it should be obvious that Fault has not been accepted, even though you think fault should be accepted without question. The Insurance Company can not arbitrarily accept fault without first inves-tigating the facts. This “First Contact†between you and the Insurance Carrier implies that you are at the beginning of the process and not the middle or end game. Therefore, just like the game of Chess, the in-surance process has an Opening Game, Middle Game and an End Game.

 

If you begin to understand which stage of the game you are in, and it is a Game, you will then know which rules are controlling both you and your opponent. If you don’t approach the Insurance Company as a game and play it to win, you will play it whether you like it or not. Unfortunately, you are probably go-ing to lose. Losing while playing the game against the Insurance Company means you will lose MONI-TARILY, this means your pocketbook suffers. So either you learn to play to win or you will lose due to a lackadaisical attitude.

 

The Insurance Process: A Game You Better Play To Win

 

By educating yourself in the insurance process you will be able to make educated decisions as oppose to merely accepting everything they tell you as fact simply because they said it was so. Let us start by defin-ing the insurance process. In other words, what events should take place if and when an accident occurs?

 

 

 

 

 

The Itemized Insurance Process is:

 

I) Accident Occurs

 

A) Confirm All Passengers and Drivers are Okay

 

If there are Injuries be sure and call an Ambulance

 

1) You may wish to call an ambulance anyway – many times following an accident an injury will surface the next day after post trauma shock diminishes

 

C) Exchange Insurance Information

 

1) Witness Involved

 

a) Obtain Witness’s Name, Address, Ph# they can be reached at during day/night

 

2) Other Vehicle Information

 

a) Driver’s Name, Address, Phone#,

 

Passengers Name, Address, Phone#

 

c) Driver’s License, VIN#, Year, Make, Model, and Color of the other car

 

D) Police are / are not called to the Scene

 

1) Police are called to the Scene and an Accident Report is completed at the accident site by the Police

 

2) Police are not called and the Accident Report is completed at the driver’s convenience: hopefully within 24 hours at the Police Station.

 

3) If there are no witnesses then you need to call the Police (people lie all the time)

 

E) Citations are written if any wanton, reckless and blatant behavior is evident

 

II) The Insurance Company Receives the Notice of Loss

 

A) How the Claims Center receives the Notice of Loss

 

1) Either you call the claim in to your Agent

 

a) To which your agent will fax or call the Notice of Loss to the Claims Center

 

2) Or you yourself will be required to call or fax the Claims Center

 

III) What Proceeds after the Claims Center receives the Notice of Loss

 

A) Insurance Company receives your Notice of Loss

 

1) Routes the claim to the appropriate regional dept who handles your state

 

2) The Regional Manager

 

a) Codes the claim

 

Determines which adjuster is best suited for this type of loss

 

c) Passes it along to the group support department

 

 

 

3) The Group Support Dept receives the claim

a) Enters the data into their computer system

Their computers generate a claim number assigned to a claims adjuster

c) The claim file is then returned to the appropriate adjuster for immediate attention

 

Claims Adjuster receives their new loss

 

1) Most claims offices have a 24 hour contact rule

 

a) Claims Adjuster must contact you w/in 24 hours of receiving the claim

 

2) This first contact, by phone will be followed up by a first contact letter

 

3) When they call you be sure and get the Name of your adjuster

 

4) Obtain the Claim Center’s phone number

 

5) Obtain your adjuster’s personal phone extension

 

6) Obtain the Claim Center’s mailing address

 

C) During the first contact from either your carrier or the other vehicle’s carrier

 

1) Ask what they will do for you [THEN SHUT YOUR MOUTH] and listen

 

2) You’ll need to know if they have contacted the other

 

a) Driver

 

Passengers

 

c) Witnesses if any

 

d) Police Officer who wrote up the police report and gave citations

 

3) Ask your adjuster if they have heard from the other party’s Carrier

 

4) If they have heard from the other carrier-has fault been accepted yet?

 

D) If you don’t hear from your carrier within 24 hours then you need to Call the Claims Center or your Agent

 

E) Your adjuster will most likely want a Recorded Statement from you for their records; this is okay, unless you adamantly object-that is your prerogative.

 

F) The Other Carrier will also perform the same duties

 

1) When you hear from the Other Carrier you will be asking them the same questions you asked your carrier

 

G) The Other Vehicle’s Carrier will also want a Recorded Statement. To throw their adjuster a curve during this recorded statement-when they ask you for your social security # tell them no. When they ask why, just tell them they are not the IRS and therefore they don’t need to know your SS# (just a little posturing-to get their minds off track). They can not legally use your SS# for identification as this violates the Right to Privacy Act. So once you refuse to give it, don’t buckle in and give it later on down the road.

 

1) Confirm if Fault has been accepted yet

2) If Fault has not been accepted you will want to know why?

 

H) If you are handling your own claim; then the other carrier will be dealing with you and not your carrier.

 

1) If you are without a shadow of doubt and know the other party is at fault then you can han-dle your own claim

 

2) It always helps if you have witnesses and a police report when handling your own claim: DO NOT handle your own claim if you don’t have witnesses or a police report.

 

3) CAVEAT: a Police Report is only evidence of an accident and is not looked upon as first hand knowledge: Make Sure You Have Witnesses before handling your own claim.

 

I) Both Carriers will contact all Parties involved and confirm the facts

 

J) Both Carriers will tie up any loose ends “He Said She Said†scenario’s

 

1) Fault can not be accepted nor denied until the contradictory statements are cleared up

 

K) Both Carriers will want their own Appraisers to Inspect the Damages of both cars

 

1) Confirm an appropriate time and place for a meeting

 

2) Obtain a copy of the damages on your car and the other car; for your records

 

L) If your car is Inoperable as a result of the accident

 

1) Obtain a Rental car either from your Carrier or the Other Party’s Carrier

 

2) Confirm who will be responsible for paying on the rental and what time period the author-ized rental is good for

 

a) Is the Rental on an Hourly Basis?

 

Is the Rental on a Calendar Basis (24 hour clock)?

 

3) If your car is inoperable due to the accident-Authorize your car to be

 

a) Moved to a Body Shop of your choice for an Appraisal

 

Moved to a Salvage Pool once damages deem your car a total loss

 

4) Obtain the Name, Phone Number, Address and Stock Number of the Salvage Pool where your car will be parked

***The Stock# is ULTRA IMPORTANT if a Salvage Pool is used***

 

M) Confirm with the Insurance Carriers every time they contact you that

 

1) Fault has or has not been Accepted

 

2) If Fault has or has not been Accepted; then what next?

 

a) Chances are Fault has been determined by the 3rd or 4th phone call

 

Fault will usually be accepted within a few days; occasionally due to circumstances a week to 10 days may pass prior to Fault being determined

 

c) MAKE SURE YOUR RENTAL CAR IS COVERED FOR THIS “UNTIMELY†DELAY!

 

 

d) Be sure when the acceptance or denial of “Fault†is dragging out that the other party’s carrier has GOOD REASON for dragging things out and the delay isn’t simply due to Laziness or an Overworked Adjuster!

 

e) Unfortunately there are times when a situation arises where fault can not easily be placed on either driver: this is when your carrier should step up and agree to “RE-MOVE YOU FROM THE MIDDLE†and take care of all your expenses until fault can be determined.

 

IV) After Fault Has been Accepted

 

A) If your car is a total loss

 

1) Negotiate and Confirm The Fair Market Value of your Car

 

If your car is repairable

 

1) Obtain a Settlement Letter or Form from the other Carrier for Confirmation of an agreed price: this letter needs to identify you, your car, and the agreed price

 

2) Understand that this Agreement may also be their Release Form

 

3) Make sure their Letter Confirming your Agreed Price to the Fair Market Value of your Car is or is not their Release Form.

 

4) Don’t sign a Release Form until all your issues are resolved

 

5) Confirm if their Release Form is

 

a) Only for the damages to your car

 

For both your car and Bodily Injuries

 

C) If your car is a total loss and Agreed Price has been reached

 

1) The other Carrier will expect you to Sign the Title of your Car over to them

 

2) DO NOT SIGN YOUR TITLE OVER TO THEM UNTIL AFTER YOU HAVE AN AGREED PRICE AND HAVE A COPY OF THEIR AGREED PRICE….With Their Wet Ink Signature on That Document.

 

3) The other carrier will not pay you until after they have received their Release Form signed by you if you are handling your claim or by your carrier if they are handling your claim.

 

4) So that your out of pocket expenses are minimized you may request

 

a) To expedite matters ask the Carrier to Fed-Ex their Documents to you with another Fed-Ex envelope inside pre-paid by them (this way you are not out of pocket any air mail expenses-they do this all the time & should not object)

 

If they object, REMIND THEM that you are in this situation as a RESULT of the NEGLIGENT actions of THEIR INSURED and you WILL NOT be out of pocket FOR ANY EXPENSES AS A RESULT. (Be Kind-this is Just Business now…not Per-sonal).

 

 

 

D) Sign the appropriate documents and forward accordingly

 

1) Call the Carrier and confirm they have received their return Fed-Ex envelope

 

2) Request a time frame as to when they will be able to process the check

 

E) Receive their check, Cash their check and go buy another vehicle.

 

F) The carrier will now sell your Car for Salvage to get back a little of what they have paid

 

1) This however does not concern you as you have already signed your title over to them

 

Don’t get too involved with the above list. Scour through it to familiarize yourself but don’t get caught up in memorizing everything listed. The main reason for the list is so that you can see just how much the adjuster has to juggle on EVERY claim. It doesn’t matter how simple or how complicated the claim may be. Every claim gets handled with the same intensity.

 

Remember, all insurance claims are handled in house as if that claim is going to court. Therefore, each claim is handled with thoroughness in mind. Now you can see why the adjuster is always behind. This is a factor you can use to your benefit during negotiations, and we will be discussing this later.

[Kevin Shasteen]

2nd Entry:

 

Behind the Scenes: Just Another Three Ring Circus

 

Before going into posturing or the demeanor you should adopt during negotiations, I feel it is more impor-tant you further understand what the adjuster has to deal with on a regular basis. A little claims 101 is a good place to start. The distinctions listed in the immediate following paragraphs are being offered as insight in what the insurance company must go through prior to ever assigning an adjuster. Each claim file must be coded based on the exposures involved which are determined by the incident that took place resulting in the claim being made. When you see an accident you probably think, “Oh, just another acci-dentâ€. Yet the insurance company probably has a couple hundred different ways of coding a claim based on the manner in which the incident occurred.

 

Always remember there are only two parties to a contract. In insurance there is the insured, which is the first party and then there is the insurance company which acts as the second party. Any party outside of that agreement will be considered a third party. Therefore, all claimants not listed on your policy as an insured, who file a claim against your policy, become a third party. As the insured, you can file a claim against your own carrier for damages covered by your policy such as in the event of vandalism or theft. This is called a first party claim. While any claim filed by someone not listed as an insured on your pol-icy will be labeled a third party claimant, such as in an auto accident whereby you were the cause of an auto accident involving another vehicle. The other party would file a claim against your insurance and this would be labeled a third party claim against your carrier.

 

It is important to grasp the fact that you, as the insured, are bound by the conditions of the insurance con-tract, whereby a third party has no contract with your insurance company and is not bound by any rules other than the laws in that state that govern indemnification for damages to third parties. So it is impor-tant that you understand it is the laws of your state that will determine how the insurance companies han-dle a claim, regardless if it is a first party or third party claim.

 

If injuries were sustained, as a result of an auto accident to you or passengers within your vehicle or the other vehicle, then these injuries will be considered a separate “Line†within the very same insurance claim. A “Line†indicates an Exposure. Each Exposure is listed on the face of the hard file so when the adjuster receives the file for the first time they can quickly access what issues can be expected. Once the Adjuster has contacted all parties and entered all relevant issues in the computer file, the adjuster will re-turn the hard file to the file room and thereafter work from the computer file. All coverages of an insur-ance policy are listed in the insured policy. Any Exposures not listed in the insured policy are not cov-ered. An Exposure is an insurance term meaning Liability. Just because there is Exposure does not mean there is coverage. Coverage can only be accepted once Liability has been confirmed. This is why the In-surance Company can not arbitrarily accept fault until after the investigation into the facts has been con-cluded.

 

An accident is only evidence of an incident and not automatically covered by someone else’s insurance policy. The actual policy coverages will indicate if a particular Exposure is covered. If the Exposure is covered, then Liability is triggered and fault must be determined. If there is no Coverage in the policy, then Liability is not triggered: and the claim will be denied and closed.

 

An insurance claim operates from the rule of: 1) Coverage, 2) Liability 3) Damages. This is the C.L.D. rule indicating which issue precedes the other. In other words you can’t begin talking about Damages if you haven’t first addressed Coverages.

 

All claims to an insurance policy will be viewed as a liability. Every type of loss has a specific code on the policy that when attached to an open file indicates what kind of exposures are at risk. These expo-sures will be further broken down into separate lines of exposures. Let me explain. Let us say an acci-dent took place involving two vehicles and no injuries. Then this claim file would be written up and coded within that carrier’s computer system indicating two lines of exposure. The first line of exposure is for the first party vehicle and another line of exposure for the third party vehicle’s driver.

 

Now take that very same accident and this time let us say that both drivers were injured. Then there would be four exposures to the same claim. In the previous example we only had the two vehicles need-ing repairs. In the second example we have the two damaged cars and now we will add the two drivers that suffered injuries, therefore a total of four separate lines of exposures to the exact same incident are now being handled by one adjuster. The damages to your car can and should be handled separately from your injuries. This means, even though your injuries are still being treated, you can conclude the settle-ment of the damages to your car while continuing treatment to your injuries.

 

Regarding settlement to your injuries, you will have to conclude treatment prior to settlement, which in-volves a release from the treating doctor. You will have to obtain this release prior to beginning the nego-tiations of a settlement towards your injuries with the Insurance Company.

 

Many times one adjuster will handle the damages to your vehicle while an entirely different adjuster will handle the injuries you or your passenger sustained. Sometimes this is a state mandated rule and other times it is merely a decision made by the insurance company themselves. Many times your claim will be divided up by multiple adjusters within the same insurance claim in the absence of a state mandated rule. This could be due to the fact that not all adjusters are of equal skill levels.

 

There are adjusters that specialize in handling claims on damages to a car while other adjusters specialize in claims on injuries to a person. In many cases an adjuster that specializes in injuries to a person will handle a claim on damages to a car; even though this is not their specialty. The process is rather simple and straight forward as long as you are automotive vernacular oriented.

 

Understanding Your Adversary – The Insurance Adjuster

 

Being an aggressive personality means your adjuster doesn’t like to lose. You may say to yourself, “Well I don’t like to lose either.†Yeah, I understand that most people don’t like to lose, but when I say that most adjusters are of the aggressive nature I truly mean THEY DON’T LIKE TO LOSE and that they hate losing more than they like winning! When I say they are of the aggressive nature I mean that those in social studies who specialize in classifying personalities or characteristics of a person have done so in such a manner that they can easily determine your personality by way of tests. These tests indicate what your strong suits are as well as your weak suits. They determine those strengths and weaknesses in dif-ferent levels. It is a proven fact that the average majority of individuals, who have chosen the occupation of an insurance adjuster, lawyer, or the policing authorities such as civil or military officers, will have ag-gressive personality characteristics. This I add, yes this very concept can be used to your advantage. The people who have chosen these occupations usually have Dominant personality characteristics. They will always be very competitive. Most folks with this dominant characteristic don’t know how to control their desire to win. This you can use to your advantage.

 

Once your adjuster has agreed that the damages to your vehicle warrant a total, the fun can begin. It be-gins in this manner. First and foremost, always remember no matter how friendly the adjuster acts, they are not your friend. They are only using you to obtain your authorization to conclude your claim as quickly as they can and as economically as they can for their company, especially if you are the claimant and not their insured. One additional issue just to prove the insurance company is not your friend is the ‘Underwriting Report’. If an adjuster thinks they have come across information (information they have obtained from you) that is questionable, they will complete a form that is titled ‘Underwriting Report’ and fax that to the Underwriter. All reports are reviewed prior to your renewal. Therefore, any negative be-havior or PERCEIVED negative behavior will be grounds for increasing your premiums or rejection of renewal. Of course the adjuster will never advise you they have completed one or more of these reports on your policy. The Underwriting Report is a form only your carrier can complete on your policy. If you are dealing with the Other Carrier then they have no connection with your carrier’s Underwriting De-partment other than conversation during negotiations with your carrier’s adjuster.

 

When you find yourself discussing the value of your car, simply play dumb at first. You do this by know-ing that their offer is going to be a low offer. They will “Low-Ball†you. Remember, we are talking about a classic here as opposed to a typical new or used car claim. The low ball offer is an offer basically thrown out as a carrot on a dangling stick and string. They are hoping you buckle under pressure and take the first offer.

 

What you know, which they don’t, is that you have already been to a Barnes & Nobles or Hasting’s book store and purchased about three classic car books which have indicated the Value of your Classic. If you do have a classic sports car then you also need to purchase the Classic, Collectable, and Special Interest Car Appraisal Guide from N.A.D.A. Remember to be honest in approaching which category of a classic your car belongs, but in your honesty, don’t give away the farm.

 

A good way of knowing when you have reached a good settlement is when both parties feel they have given something up. This is where you may wish to Posture yourself in such a manner as described ear-lier. After all, you didn’t ask their insured to hit you, but their insured did hit you, and now they, the in-surance company, is expecting you to ‘Compromise’ on the value of your car! HOW INSULTING (Yes, more posturing)! Where was the compromise when their insured’s vehicle was looking for a car to hit: why didn’t they compromise and hit some other car? My point is there was no compromise.

 

Yes, this should upset you, but remember, the incident has already occurred and the time for being in-sulted is over. Now you are in a business arena where you are jockeying not only for the value of your classic vehicle, but for all the many countless hours you personally have put into your car. Remember all the busted knuckles you experienced when turning wrenches well into the wee hours of the morning? THIS IS BUSINESS, the time for emotion is gone. Not only has their insured effected you through their thoughtless incompetent act (even if it was a freak accident) THEY HAVE NOW AFFECTED YOUR POCKET BOOK! What their appraisal books don’t talk about are all the hours where your ‘Blood, Sweat and Tears’ were poured into that car. Where’s the compensation for that? Don’t just think it.., go ahead and ASK THEM those very same questions (yes, more posturing)?

 

Within this posturing what you want to do is ask them how they arrived at their offer. Their answer will be something like, “I obtained it from the N.A.D.A books†or, “Our company out sources it from another company who searches the Want Adds in your area, blah, blah, blah.†This is where posturing comes into play. You will want to act kind of miffed in your response, which will be to give an edgy chuckle fol-lowed by the question, “What do you mean advertisements from my area? My car is a one of a kind!†Their response may be a chuckle or a counter derogatory statement that your car is not one of a kind and that it is in less than prime condition. Anytime you can obtain a premeditated response from them you have them eating out of your hands. Your only response is to ask them exactly how they arrived at their Value. They’ll again give some lame excuse for low-balling you.

 

If they don’t know by now; you can advise them that you think your car is worth much more than their appraisal due to your modifications (more Posturing). To which they will tell you your modifications are of no real value or not as valuable as you have implied. You should then ask them to categorize your car’s lack of value and put it in writing. In other words what do they think your engine by itself is worth, what your transmission is worth by itself, what the wheels and tires are worth by themselves, what your stereo is worth by itself and any other modifications you may have made up to that point. If they tell you they don’t know what each category of your car is worth, then ask them, “How then can they tell you what you car is worth if they don’t know what each subcategory is worth?†After all rebuilding or restor-ing a classic, musclecar, or hot rod is done in subcategories. If they have not requested receipts from you up to this point then now is where you ask if they would like to see your receipts. They may also make some comment that your upgrades were not really upgrades at all in that all they were are needed repairs to a vehicle that has passed its prime, therefore it needed rebuilding.

 

Their reasoning is that your “Rebuilding†of any one component didn’t increase the value of the car, rather it only brought the sub rated value of a dilapidated state of existence of a car, in dire need of re-pairs, up to the average value. This mindset on their part has merit for a typical new or used car. Just re-mind them that your car is not a typical new or used car but is a classic or hot rod whatever the case may be. Be sure you make copies of all your receipts prior to mailing them. It doesn’t happen very often but files in a large company have been known to come up missing. Therefore, if you have made copies and your originals come up missing for whatever reason, at least you still have copies. You can also request in a letter that once they have reviewed your receipts they are to return the originals to you. You should also call them after they have been given plenty of time to receive and review those receipts. Then, over the phone, remind them they are to return the original receipts to you. If they wish they can make their own copies but you need the originals back AND YOU NEED THEM BACK BEFORE THEY GET LOST (yes more posturing).

 

After they have taken the modifications into consideration, they will still try to low ball you. Remember the final stage of the insurance game “Salvage†and the insurance company’s cliché of “Cost Control through Loss Control†(Yuk!-I told you I didn’t care to here that saying again). This is where you lower the boom on them in that you can tell them you accept their offer on the price of the components they listed and prices they gave you earlier on each item and that you were thinking about keeping a few of those subsystems they priced, (which you know they Low Balled). They will probably tell you they don’t allow the removal of components to which you can remind them that the car is yours and that you can do with your car whatever you want. Until they have settled with you the entire car still belongs to you.

 

Because you are going to be keeping those items, you can place them on notice at this time that you will be removing said items anyway; and they, the adjuster can simply deduct ‘Their Value they applied to that component’ from the ‘Fair Market Value’ they previously applied to your vehicle. Remember that both their Fair Market Value and their itemized Value of each component has a high probability of being Low-Balled. Therefore, the amount they will be deducting from your Fair Market Value is minimized in comparison to what the value would have been had you advised them beforehand that you would be re-moving said items up front, (to which they would have inflated their values). As a result the amount be-ing deducted for said items you are removing is less therefore the amount deducted from your Fair Market Value will also be less when your final settlement is reached: YOU WIN again in the negotiations de-partment, so go ahead and stick another feather in your cap.

 

You see, had you mentioned up front that you would be keeping the engine, or some other component, then a less than credible adjuster would have inflated the value of those items and the following deduction of the value of those items would have been higher, making the following adjustment to your Fair Market Value of your vehicle less. Either way they win in that scenario. Caveat Emptor, before taking on this approach, it’s important that you have decided beforehand on which items you wish to keep or do away with. Categorize which components are bargaining chips verse which components are a must have item. If you don’t want to keep any items then you can use the posturing to obtain the best settlement you de-sire. So don’t accept a low bid if you don’t plan on removing any items. Remember, this posturing only applies to “Classics†that unfortunately have met their demise by way of an auto accident. Remember your “Classic†possesses hard to find parts that will only go to a soulless and heartless crusher if not re-moved. If you plan on rebuilding another car, of the same like, kind, and quality, it would benefit you to obtain these hard to find parts prior to allowing them to go to the insurance company or their salvage yards for crushing or cannibalizing.

[Kevin Shasteen]

3rd Entry

 

Required Claims File Management

 

The purpose for encoding differing exposures as separate lines lies in claims management. This allows the actuarial department to know which exposures have a higher probability of occurring in any geo-graphical area. The actuarial department is the department that calculates the worth of your policy. They do this by knowing which exposures are prevalent in the area where the property or person is located. Another reason for separating each line of exposure aids in managing the efficiency of each adjuster.

 

It is an accepted norm behind the scenes that all adjusters close one claim for every new claim they re-ceive or for each new line of exposure received the adjuster is likewise expected to close another older line of exposure. This theory means that the ratio for old claims being closed to new claims being opened and received is at least on a 1:1 ratio. This is how the efficiency of an adjuster is determined. If an ad-juster is incapable of maintaining this 1:1 ratio, they are inefficient for one reason or another and the in-surance company’s computer would red flag their manager into taking a closer look at your files in an at-tempt to either identify your inefficiencies as incompetence or as an excessive overload.

 

Regardless if this inefficiency is due to a less skilled adjuster or over burdened workload, the result is the same. The result is that their claims are not being handled on a timely basis. All states of the union will regulate the insurance companies located in their state. Some states will assign penalties to insurance companies who have a history of untimely claim closures. Regardless of why the insurance company is slow to settle, you should be very aware that they, the insurance company and their adjusters, are very overworked. Very rarely will they be on top of their case load. This you can use to your advantage dur-ing your negotiations.

 

A Typical Adjuster’s Diary

 

To add to the stress of the adjuster’s work load, there is an insurance system within a system incorporated into that insurance company’s computer network. This system is called their “Diaryâ€. The diary is a sys-tem designed to red flag an issue on a particular claim that has not been handled yet or is waiting to be handled due to one delay or another. In other words, when each claim file is initially opened or set up, each file will be diaried for the 24 hour contact, 3 day follow up, 5 day follow up, 15 day follow up, 30 day follow up, and a 45 day follow up. Personal Injury claims typically have additional diaries beyond the 45 day follow up simply because they consume more time from injury to settlement where as damages to a car should be concluded within a 30 day, or less, time frame. On top of the diary reminders being red flagged to the adjuster’s file, that particular adjuster’s supervisor will also receive a 3 day follow up, 15 day follow up, 30 and 45 day follow up. So the adjuster handling the file will experience added stress not only in handling their files but also in knowing that their supervisor will be breathing down their neck if the diary falls behind.

 

Some of the follow up diaries are for the claims manager while the other follow up diaries are assigned to the adjuster. Every morning the first thing a claims adjuster will do is print their “Today’s†diary. Also added to the initial diaries will be additional diaries the adjuster themselves have added. These additional diaries act as a reminder, such as, “Has the Appraisal come in yet†or, “Has the Claimant returned my callâ€, or “Has the claimant’s attorney returned my callâ€, ect. The managers watch this diary very closely and will demand the adjuster’s diary remain current. This is added stress. If you have not figured out yet, it is extremely easy to fall behind in an adjuster’s claim load. The way of staying on top of your claim load is to keep your diary current. This is added stress to a claims adjuster because it is rare that an ad-juster’s diary is current. Some adjusters love the stress whereas many adjusters break under the stress. This you can use to your advantage. They may hold the check for your settlement yet you hold time on your side. Even if you are out of pocket you can still use this to your benefit if you play your cards cor-rectly.

 

Most auto accident claims should be handled in a 30 day period or sooner. If this claim is not handled within the presumed time allowed the adjuster will have to explain why the claim is still open when their claims manager’s diary comes up on the manager’s computer. If this happens often then this will effect the claims adjuster’s job performance review. So every claims adjuster lives and dies by how well they work their diary. Damages to a car are routine and straight forward, usually; whereas injuries to a person are not as straight forward nor are they handled as quickly.

 

 

 

Different Classifications of Adjusters

 

There are three types of adjusters: 1) Physical Damage Adjusters, 2) Bodily Injury Adjusters, and an 3) Litigation Adjusters. The Physical Damage adjuster is referred to as a PD adjuster and will handle claims on damages to the cars themselves. The Bodily Injury adjusters will mostly handle claims to injuries to the drivers, passengers, or pedestrians involved and or property owned yet damaged as a result of an inci-dent. The Litigation adjuster will usually inherit a file after a Physical Damage (PD claim) or a Bodily Injury Claim (BI claim) failed to settle outside of the court. Once the claimant has chosen to litigate their claim in court the file then transforms into a Litigation File. As a result the file is then transferred from the initial adjuster to an adjuster that is familiar with Litigation issues.

 

Quite often a BI or Lit adjuster’s 1:1 ratio will be sub par due to the fact that a PD claim will be con-cluded quicker than a BI or a Litigation Claim. As a result the claims manager will throw a PD claim to the BI or Lit adjuster. This is an attempt to help bring their 1:1 closing to opening ratio back up to par. The BI or Lit adjuster always appreciates a 1:1 closing to opening rate, yet the BI or Lit adjuster with an ego, which they usually have, will look upon the PD claim as dirt under their fingernails. The egotistical adjuster will look at the handling of a PD claim as a nuisance, not only because they don’t understand automotive mechanics, but also because they feel it is moving backwards in their climb for occupational respect.

 

Mindset of a PD, BI, or Lit Adjuster

 

Remember the diary spoken of earlier? In a BI or Lit file your diaries are basically reminders to follow up on how the injured party is coming along. Basically you are making courtesy calls inquiring if they have concluded treatment yet. In a Lit file you will be looking for status on how certain issues have been addressed by your attorney. These Lit claim diary dates are basically set at six month periods all the way up to one or two years to conclude your file. During this time the adjuster is keeping tabs of papers need-ing to be filed and answered vs not filed and not answered. In other words, the diary to a BI file or Lit file is a little easier to adapt to as opposed to a PD file which is more condensed in time. While the BI or Lit Adjuster appreciates a 1:1 opening to closing ratio, they don’t like the expediency in which a PD claim is carried out and this equates to added stress. All three claim types have their own level of technical legal-ese.

 

The PD claim is simpler legalistically speaking than a BI or Lit file, but it also is more intense due to a much more condensed time frame in which the PD claim must be concluded. Therefore, it is often looked upon as a nuisance to the BI or Lit adjuster. Another reason for the ego’s dividing the PD vs BI and Lit adjusters is due to the fact that a PD adjuster must work very hard to gain the needed knowledge prior to being entrusted with a BI or Lit file. The pay scale is much higher for a BI and Lit adjuster than a PD ad-juster. So, many times there will be animosity between the PD adjuster and the BI or Lit adjusters. There shouldn’t be yet it exists nonetheless. I always thought of each line of exposure as a claim is a claim is a claim. Yet those with egos will see the PD claim as being beneath them.

 

Anyway, back to the differences in adjusters. Because it isn’t usually a BI adjuster’s specialty to handle PD claims, barring any injuries, you can play the game better than they, and as a result beat them at their own game. Even adjusters that handle claims on damages to a car usually are not experts at the mechan-ics, electronics, or body repairs of a vehicle. This is always a thorn in the side of any Insurance Company as automotive repair shops can and often take advantage of the insurance carrier due to the in house ad-juster’s lack of knowledge.

 

 

Mitigation or Litigation

 

As a result of the insurance company and the other party being unable to resolve their differences, the damaged party decides the only way to resolve this matter is before a court or an unbiased body whose decision can be binding. The result is to mitigate or litigate. This inability to reach a settlement forces the claimant to file their grievances in the appropriate forum. When two insurance companies are in-volved many times they both will be members of an arbitration forum.

 

The arbitrator is a court outside of the Federal, State, or County court system. It is a private corporation set up for the sole purpose of resolving legal disputes. The purpose for this forum is to relieve the courts of “all those insurance claimsâ€. Depending on the arbitrator’s contract, both parties involved in the claim who are also members of the arbitration forum, will usually be barred from litigation and must take their claim before the arbitration forum for resolution. Many times only one party is a member to an arbitrator and will suggest to the nonmember about presenting the claim to arbitration for resolution. The purpose for this is to bypass the two years it would probably take if the case were to go to a state court. Keep in mind once you enter the arbitrator’s forum you are bound by the conditions of the arbitration forum’s contract. Some arbitration contracts allow the decision to be litigated afterward, but only after it has gone through the arbitration process and a decision from the arbitrator has been given. So be sure to read the arbitration agreement if and when your insurance company presents you with the idea of arbitration. If you plan on litigating (taking your case to a state court) then you need to know if the arbitrator’s decision is binding (final), or if it can be litigated after the mitigation process has played itself out.

 

This arbitration forum is known as mitigation. It is an attempt to free up the courts by purging those courts of all the insurance claims being filed on a regular basis. This arbitration process is suppose to be handled in a timely manner, however, through the years it has become as backed up as the litigation proc-ess was prior to when the arbitration companies hit the scene. The arbitration process shouldn’t take any longer than three months, but don’t be too surprised if it takes a little longer, especially if your claim was preceded by a catastrophe in the area where the arbitrator resides. This catastrophe could have resulted in a multitude of claimants, who like you, could not reach a settlement and chose to mitigate. As a result the arbitration committees could be backed up for a couple additional months, further delaying the settle-ment of your claim.

 

The arbitration decision is usually made up of adjusters from insurance companies that volunteer the ser-vices of their adjusters. It would behoove you to know that a good majority of arbitration committees are headed up by the larger insurance companies who volunteer their adjusters on a regular basis. So, even though your claim may be against [x] insurance company, the arbitration committee could very well be overseen by adjusters from that exact same company your claim is against. Sounds like a conflict of in-terests doesn’t it? Don’t worry the insurance company is assured by the arbitrator that all claims are han-dled without bias. Of course you can trust human nature, can’t you? (Buyer beware!).

 

Overworked and Underpaid: A Race Against Time

 

I’m sure the adjuster would say they were underpaid and overworked while the upper management would argue the opposite. Welcome to corporate politics.

 

Most field appraisers of any large insurance carrier are well versed in their appraisals, providing the ap-praiser is a well seasoned appraiser. In essence, what the in-house adjuster does is to basically follow a fax copy of the estimate from the field appraiser that initially inspected your car. This is where it’s better to be wise as a serpent and as harmless as a dove. Always ask leading questions which will cause the ad-juster to tip their hand or justify their decision. In other words, ask more questions than you give answers or commands. When I say “Tip their hand†I mean admit they don’t really know anything about a car. I’ll get to this in a little while.

 

As you can see, this process from incident to settlement is a lengthy process and the Insurance Company will go through this exact scenario multiple times a day. If the Insurance Company is a larger company, they may go through this process a couple thousand times a day. Yes, that’s right – I said, “A couple thousand times a day!†Now you can see why the process will drag out somewhat longer than what one would expect. In a soft economy the insurance company will have gone through a few ‘Redundancy Eliminations’ (Lay Offs or Downsizings) which will require each adjuster to absorb additional in house responsibilities they normally wouldn’t have to consider. If this latter scenario manifests, then the proc-ess can drag out even longer than imaginable. Not to worry, you can use this to your advantage!

 

The underlying essential ‘Dynamics’ of an insurance adjuster is that they are incredibly overworked; due to in house regulations and county, city, state and federal rules. As a result of all these rules, an adjuster sometimes will have to jump through untold red tape just to conclude the simplest of claims. How this helps you is it should be looked upon as added pressure to your adjuster. Each claim requires the adjuster to perform anywhere from six to a dozen in-house responsibilities after the claim hits their desk. These in house duties must be done prior to the adjuster ever making a single call. These responsibilities consume time and I mean A LOT OF TIME.

 

While the adjuster is attempting to ‘prep’ the claim with these untold time robbing responsibilities, the adjuster’s phone is ringing off the wall, the company’s receptionist is dropping messages from ‘hell’ on their desk from claimants, attorneys, accident reconstruction specialists and their own insured’s who also are wondering why their claim has not been handled yet. Let us not forget to mention their email and voice mail is filling up with messages. To add to all of this the adjuster is expected to do their own faxing and retrieve their own fax confirmations. There will always be the agents who on behalf of the policy holder are calling wondering why you paid a claimant on a claim against one of their accounts they feel should not have been paid. Where oh where does it end? If you are the adjuster, it doesn’t end. It only gets worse.

 

With the advent of email the issue gets even worse. Every issue the insurance company wants their em-ployee to be privy of will be done so by way of meetings. These meetings end up being put into remind-ers by the directors to the employees. Then the supervisors will also email their adjusters under them on the exact same message. So the adjuster may end up with two to three emails from different levels of the corporate latter all on the same topic. This equates to more time being consumed to check needless re-petitive emails which usually require a response which of course robs the adjuster of more time.

 

Another item to be aware of is the fact that as the adjuster is trying to perform these six to dozen file prepping duties, which must be done prior to actually contacting any parties involved, they are constantly being lambasted with calls from parties on claims the adjuster received prior to your claim. This is added pressure, tweaking their stress levels. The typical adjuster usually has a case load of anywhere from 60 to 200 lines of exposures. These will always be outstanding claims that preceded your claim.

 

Meanwhile, your adjuster knows they probably won’t be able to get to their new losses of the day due to interruptions. This means that tomorrow morning is already booked solid. So while your claim is sitting on their desk in the ‘Things to do Today’ category and they, the adjuster, are being hammered by other problems which prevent them from getting to your claim, the pressure cooker is building. Yet they can’t take that pressure out on you as it would be considered “BAD CUSTOMER SERVICEâ€. Can someone say “Stress Managementâ€?

 

This is the comedy of being an adjuster. Some deal with it and love the pressure while others, and most, don’t deal with it so well. Also keep in mind the typical adjuster is pumped up on coffee, nicotine, and for breakfast they probably ate donuts and drank a big-gulp. Can you say “Wound up tighter than a cork ready to pop?â€

 

To make matters worse, the adjuster has to type in a paraphrased chronological report in the computer un-der the claim number after each phone call. This report is of the conversation they just had on the phone for whatever claim they were discussing with you, an attorney, the police, experts, or other insurance car-riers. While the adjuster is attempting to type the previous conversation in their computer, they are being bomb barded by all the above mentioned interruptions.

 

As a side note, if you really want to get under the skin of any adjuster, try talking e-x-t-r-e-m-e-l-y s-l-o-w, and then ask your adjuster to repeat themselves multiple times. Just don’t tell them I told you to do this, as every adjuster will be out for my neck.

 

Because most adjusters are grossly overworked and chances are they have handled hundreds of claims similar to yours, their minds are four steps ahead of your questions. They already know the answer to your question before you ever realize you even needed to ask the question. Very few times will a new circumstance arise that a seasoned adjuster isn’t prepared to handle. In fact, the typical adjuster has han-dled so many claims similar to yours they already know how your claim will settle. It is simply a matter of you agreeing to the terms they offer and the claim playing itself out.

 

Because of this, the adjuster must go to extra lengths to ensure they don’t project the mindset of boredom or pushiness to you over the phone, or else you would think they were not giving you the consideration your claim deserves. This is where most claimants fail miserably. For most of us an automotive accident is something that has never happened to them before. Those that have never experienced the insurance process don’t even realize that a process for settling their damages exists. It is for this reason that most individuals lose when dealing with the insurance company, simply because they are not prepared.

 

If you haven’t figured out yet, what I’m leading up to is the intent of the adjuster’s mindset. It is one of boredom, stress, haughtiness, ego, and a desire to be an efficient adjuster so they can climb the ladder of significance within their field; aka, get a raise. Now, if the adjuster happens to be a green unseasoned ad-juster, you can factor in confusion on their part. Once you know these underlying elements behind the scenes of how your claim is handled, you can use them to your advantage.

 

Another overriding factor will be the damages. Any competent insurance company will always gear their adjusters to be cost conscience. The cliché is “Loss Control thru Cost Controlâ€. If I have to hear that one more time I’m going to up chuck. Anyway, what I’m getting at is the adjuster will low ball you if and when they can get away with low balling you. Usually the larger insurance companies, as hard as it is to believe, will actually give a fair offer to a claim on a new or used car. This doesn’t include a classic, col-lectable, or exotic sports car. It is usually the smaller insurance companies that will attempt to low ball you on everything, simply because they have not been sued enough for bad faith.

[Kevin Shasteen]

4th Entry:

 

ACV: Your Car’s Worth or Worth-less?

 

ACV stands for Actual Cash Value. The reason most people don’t understand the insurance company’s offer is because they don’t understand how ‘Value’ is accessed to their vehicle. Value on a new or slightly used vehicle is rather straight forward. Value on injuries to an individual’s person is not a straight forward process. This is why most accident attorneys prefer handling the BI claim other than the PD claim, as there is zero lee- way on the PD claim, while on a BI claim the sky is the limit and only lim-ited by the attorney’s ability to negotiate.

 

Value on your vehicle is deemed whatever your car is selling for in your area. Usually an insurance com-pany will want at least two and sometimes three estimates on the damages of your vehicle. How they go about getting these estimates is either in house or they out source the appraisals. Most companies will have N.A.D.A books, Black Books and the Blue Books. If you have a classic then your car is somewhat of a paradox. However, N.A.D.A. does have a separate book for specialty cars entitled “Classic, Col-lectible & Special Interest Car Appraisal Guideâ€. Keep in mind these books have two price values. One is wholesale while the other is retail. As a third party claimant you obviously want the retail price. If the book you are looking at allows for low mileage price adjustments then be sure and factor in your low mileage. If you car has high mileage then you need to factor that in as well. The larger insurance compa-nies will be on the N.A.D.A mailing list and will receive their new books on a monthly basis so their of-fers will usually be appropriate.

 

The out sourcing of the appraisal will come from possibly two sources. Most adjusters will find your ve-hicle in one of the four books mentioned above. They will also out source a fax request form to a non-related company that specializes in offering advertisements of like, kind, and quality (LKQ) cars in the area of your address’s zip code. Usually these cars will be found in your local Auto or Truck Traders or found at local dealerships.

 

Earlier I mentioned that most insurance companies will make an acceptable offer that most individuals, to whom the offer is being made, aren’t aware of how that value is determined. What I meant is simply most people have a loose understanding of the term value relative to their car. If a person still owes money on their car, then that person will assume their car is worth somewhere in the neighborhood of what their car was worth when it was purchased added to the amount they actually still owe to the bank. This is not always the case and the subject of many a scorned owner who is forced to deal with the insur-ance company when their vehicle has been totaled and they still owe on the bank note.

 

Fair Market Value does not take into account the automotive dealers unreasonable profit nor does it take into account the profit the banker placed on their contract when you agreed to allow them to finance the vehicle. If you stop and think about it, what you as the consumer are paying if you allow the purchase to be financed when buying a new or relatively newer used car is the actual value of the vehicle, the dealer’s profit, and the banker’s profit built into the note.

 

Let us say you were to buy a brand new car. For this example let us say that the dealer took advantage of you in that you paid in and above the average price of that vehicle. Let us also state that you paid cash for that vehicle. Now, let us say you had an accident six months later which is plenty of time for depreciation to take effect. The insurance would not owe you the dealer’s excessive profit on the car and if you had the car financed, the insurance company would also not owe you the price of the banker’s profit built into the note. What the insurance owes you on a brand new car are reasonable retail profits; based on what your exact same car is being sold from other dealers in your area. The finance company’s profits are still not owed. Surprise!

 

On a wholesale basis, if you are a new or used car dealer and have an accident in one of your inventory cars then the settlement on a total to one of your inventory cars will be based on what dealership had in-vested in the car and not the potential retail price that car is selling for on the window sticker.

 

What the Insurance Company owes to an individual on a brand new car that is totaled would be the actual value of the vehicle and reasonable profit, without the excessive profit from the dealer and without the profit of the banker’s note. When an accident occurs on a vehicle that has been financed, the auto dealer already has their money as the banker paid them off when you agreed to allow the banker to finance your note. So, the banker who holds your certificate of title would be coming after you if and when your vehi-cle is totaled from an accident and you still owe money on the note excessive to the settlement of your damaged vehicle. This is what most people are completely unaware of, up until they are forced to cross that bridge due to an accident whereby their vehicle is totaled.

 

This is why it is of utmost importance that you understand what ‘Fair Market Value’ means. If you don’t posses the title, you don’t own the car. You are merely a lessee. For a “Certificate of Title†is not owner-ship, but merely an admission that someone else other than you has a superior claim.

 

The true title of ownership to an automobile is known as the “MSOâ€, rather, Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin. Why doesn’t the dealer or banker give you the MSO when you “Purchase†or “Own†your vehi-cle? Good question, perhaps you should take that up with the dealer. Better yet, why don’t you take that up with your State Congressman? Because if you don’t possess the “MSO†then you don’t own your ve-hicle, as the one who possesses the “MSO†is the true owner of that vehicle.

 

Improvements and Upgrades

 

Anyway, back to the insurance claim. You should always keep receipts on any upgrades you have made. Upgrades are improvements or modifications you have made to your vehicle. The insurance company will attempt to adjust the upgrades by factoring in “Bettermentâ€. Betterment is simply a fancy word for depreciation. An adjuster worth their salt will attempt to deduct 10% Betterment for each year the com-ponent has aged up to 50% Betterment, or whatever the adjuster thinks they can get away with. So al-ways keep your receipts on any and all upgrades. If the item in question is totally dilapidated, then Bet-terment can be close to 100%.

 

To understand why 100% Betterment can be factored in, you would have to realize that excessive wear and tear to the component damaged by an accident basically means that the component in question, if it were to be sold, would be worthless due to its dilapidated state. So, in essence, this component was actu-ally worthless prior to its failure or being damaged in an accident. The logic behind such extreme Bet-terment is simply due to equity. Why should you get a brand new “something†in exchange for a worn out “something†simply because it failed due to an incompetent repair shop or auto accident? It’s an at-tempt to give equity in exchange for equity. In other words, equal indemnification exchanged for an equal loss.

 

 

Posturing Your Demeanor

 

Once you reach the point where you are corresponding with an insurance carrier, either verbally over the phone or by mail, you will want a copy of their documentation on how they determined the ‘Fair Market Value’ of your vehicle. Keep in mind, what I’m suggesting you do by way of inquiry isn’t always to Control the conversation, rather, it is to Posture yourself in such a manner that the adjuster must take no-tice. They may take notice subconsciously; but if you play the game correctly, they can’t help but take notice consciously at the same time.

 

They won’t know why you always seem to be two steps ahead of them. Some adjusters are very aware of the mind games being played while other adjusters are totally oblivious to posturing. To the totally oblivious adjuster, it will be similar to them sighting a UFO. Upon sighting a UFO it will be obvious you just witnessed something out of this world but you find yourself wondering if you really saw what you just saw, or was it all simply an overactive imagination. Anyway, whatever posture you take on – don’t be rude, don’t be demanding and don’t make threats. Treat them with respect just like you want them to treat you. Now, after saying that, I would also like you to ‘Posture’ yourself in such a manner that you are respectful, but also mostly stern.

 

Posturing is the same thing Jesse Jackson does when he goes into his diatribe of “This is an Outrageâ€. It is your demeanor you are purposely relaying to those who are listening. Its purpose is to slightly set your adversary on edge. Don’t go overboard with your posturing as a seasoned adjuster won’t put up with ob-vious theatrics and you will get called to the carpet rather bluntly. Yet, if your posturing is done respect-fully the adjuster will notice. In their mind they will be thinking, “Even though this claimant is on edge, they are still working with me toward the closure of their claim†and will be less likely to call you on your intensity. Remember this claim is also ‘The Adjuster’s Claim’. So it benefits them to reach closure equally as much as it does you. The sooner they conclude your claim the quicker they can get on to the next unhappy camper’s claim.

 

All adjusters are taught in all their ‘Anger Diffusion’ training classes, that many claimants will be going through the process for the very first time. As a result the adjuster is told to be courteous and expect the claimant to be slightly upset. So, if the adjuster expects you to be upset and they are taught how to react to your displeasure, why not use it to your advantage? My point I am trying to make is that your postur-ing isn’t to be looked upon as an excuse to be upset, rather you being upset is what your adjuster expects. The fact that you have been involved in an accident that was out of your control and has resulted in your being out of pocket should upset you. What I am saying is that the adjuster will be expecting this nega-tive energy. So use this expectation tactfully and allow your adjuster to lead their attempt to diffuse your pretended anger.

 

This will give the impression to your adjuster you are working with them. At the same time your adjuster will harbor the thoughts that all their training for diffusing anger is actually working. This sets up a false sense of security their minds can’t see. In the mental score board you just scored and your adjuster doesn’t have a clue you just baited them and they fell for it.

 

Negotiating an Agreed Price

 

Now that you have a copy of their estimated damages on your car, you can begin the ‘Agreed Price’ stage of the game. If your accident was a bad one and your car was totaled, then you will also want their documentation on how they will reach the ‘Fair Market Value’ of your car. The reason you want both the estimated damages and Fair Market Value documents is simply as tools in determining if the damages to your car warrants being deemed a total. A vehicle is considered to be a total loss when the cost of the re-pairs exceeds the price of your car’s Fair Market Value.

 

Most states will have rules that demand a car to be totaled if it has sustained a certain amount of estimated damages relative to the “Value†of the Vehicle. In flood states their books will have codes enforcing a total of a car if the water level of the flood reached a certain height on the vehicle. As a result of the wa-ter reaching a specific level on the car, that vehicle will automatically be totaled. Many times if the water in a flood surpassed the bottom of the door, it is a total. Every state will be slightly different so you will have to confirm this if your loss is a flood loss. Usually an insurance company prefers to total a car if the damages amount to 85% of the car’s Fair Market Value.

 

Let us say your car was worth $5000.00 and the appraisal reached $3500.00, which is not hard to do nowadays with the advent of collapsible body panels and collapsible steering wheel columns. Simply di-vide the value of your car, $5000.00 into the amount of the damages, $3500.00, like so:

 

$3500 / $5000 = 70%

 

We now know that your $3.5k in damages is equal to 70% of your car’s $5k Fair Market Value. Ah shucks you say, as you really wanted to total that car as you were already looking forward to buying a newer car with the insurance settlement. Not all is lost. Any adjuster realizes that with any extensively damaged car there are going to be ‘Supplemental’ estimates. A supplemental estimate is one that occurs after the initial estimate has already been written. The value of this supplemental estimate is then added to the value of the initial estimate. An appraiser can only appraise damages they can see with their eyes and feel with their hands. This does not take into account the hidden secondary damages that the body shop will find once they begin the tear down of the seeable primary damages. It would be in your best interest if you make an inquiry to the handling adjuster exactly how will these probable ‘Supplements’ effect the outcome of your claim, specifically relative to your vehicle being a total, or not being a total.

 

As I have said before, once you ask your question, “SHUT YOUR MOUTH†don’t say a word.

 

It is human nature to want to argue, to be the expert, or the one in control. This means that arguing comes natural with us. When involved in a legal issue, it is always best to make your adversary do as much of the talking as possible. The reasoning is this, the more rambling – rather out of control ranting or nervous chatter you exhibit, the more apt you are to say something that can and will be used against you later. Af-ter you ask your question allow your adjuster to answer. Don’t interject what you think they just said. If you don’t understand what they just said, then ask them to explain their comment. Don’t be their inter-preter. Let them explain then re-explain, and if needed re-re-explain. If what they just said isn’t clear let them be the ones to redefine their statement. In your dealings with the insurance company, you should posture yourself in that they give you more information than you give them. Yes you have to work with them to settle your claim, yet you don’t want to be a Chatty Kathy.

 

When you speak keep your answers as brief as possible. If and when you have to answer their questions, go the extra mile in keeping your answers as short as possible. Don’t ramble. Answer their question and then be quiet. If they need clarification then they will ask a follow up question. If a misunderstanding arises later down the line due to them not asking a follow up question on a previous discussion, then that is their mistake and not yours as they are the experts – not you.

 

Keep in mind that the final decision to total your car will be the adjuster’s. Within that final decision, their in house rules will dictate which way the claim will go. How well you negotiated your end of things can also persuade your adjuster one way or the other, especially if your claim is a borderline Total Loss. Their decision will be based on the previous condition of your car, how easily the repairs are to be made, the availability of parts to make the required repairs, any concerns you may have, and the rules of the state in which the accident occurred. All these issues will be taken into account when determining if a vehicle should be totaled or repaired. If you are a blatant jerk, they will if they can get away with it, stretch your claim out to the very end. So don’t be so hasty in loosing your cool when negotiating. We want to manipulate their system through psychology, not overthrow the system through command and control type dominatrix like behavior.

 

The determining factor will be in knowing what the codes are in your state and the adjuster’s in house rules in coming close to the state mandated Total Loss Percentage but not actually reaching it. I always went out of my way to total a vehicle if and when the damages reached the 70% to 75% range simply be-cause I knew there would be at least one or two Supplement Appraisals. When adding the initial Ap-praisal to the Supplement Appraisals you could be sure the damages would be in the neighborhood of the 75-80% of Fair Market Value; which would warrant a very close look at totaling the vehicle.

 

Total Loss on a Classic, Musclecar, or Hot Rod

 

These next few paragraphs deal with a Classic, Musclecar, or Hot Rod whereby your car has either been completely restored or is in the process of being restored. The underlying discussion is for those who wish to keep certain components of your car after your car has been totaled. Let us say you just pur-chased a $5000 crate engine from some source. You’ve also spent $2000 on a high performance trans-mission and another $1000 to have the engine and transmission installed by a local shop. This means you have $8000 invested in the drivetrain alone. You may want to keep that engine and transmission for a later project if this car is in a most unfortunate accident.

 

In light of a project car that you are personally involved in where you yourself may have made many of the modifications or upgrades: you should not only count the cost of the expenses of the parts you in-stalled, but you should also keep a record on each item whereby your labor was added to the installation of those parts. This way consideration is given towards your labor if your car ever finds itself on the los-ing end of an auto accident. If you were to go to a shop and have them replace a failed component, they would most definitely charge you the Price of the Part and the cost of the Labor. So why do you not keep a record of the Labor involved when you install a component? Just because you are not a shop doesn’t mean your labor is worthless. This can be used as a bargaining chip.

 

The insurance company frowns upon you removing any items from the car as any item removed dimin-ishes their amount gained when they sell your car as salvage. Yet you know they don’t want to give you the full amount of what you have invested in the hard parts. What I am about to explain is a tactic you can use in negotiating a settlement for a new or used car but the tactics are limited in what they will yield when dealing with a new or relatively used car. These tactics mainly deal with a classic.

 

If you actually reach the point where you and the adjuster feel your car should be a total, don’t be so hasty in arbitrarily agreeing with their Fair Market Value: especially if your car is a classic. As I stated earlier, a classic is somewhat of a paradox to the insurance company.

 

To most of us the modifications being made to a classic, musclecar, or hot rod will be made in incre-mental stages. Therefore, it is to your advantage to request the adjuster itemize their values accordingly to the different sub-systems of a car. Such as the engine, transmission, wheels, tires, suspension, steering, electronics, stereo, paint and body. Just like an auto manual for repairing cars will separate that car into 10 or so different categories. You too should separate your car’s value into those same categories.

 

This will help you define how far your restorations have gone and how much further they need to go to reach completion. In other words, in your attempts at repairing the interior, how far have you gone? Did your repairs to the interior equate to a 100% upgrade or did you only make a 50% upgrade? Once you have graded each of the categories with a percentage, you can tally up each category into one lump sum. Once you have this total sum you will then divide that sum by however many categories your list utilized. This final sum will indicate how close your car has come to being a total restoration. A following is an example of what I’m talking about.

 

Restoration:

90% = Engine

100% = Transmission

100% = Wheels & Tires

60% = Electrical Wiring Harness & Components

35% = Interior

20% = Paint & Body

= 405

 

Each of our 6 categories has its own value of 100; therefore we will now divide the total of 600 into the sum of 405, like so:

 

405 ÷ 600 = 67.5% Restored

 

Now you can take this 67.5% and apply it towards the Classic Book’s value of a completely restored car. This would be a bargaining chip when the insurance company attempts to tell you how much your car IS NOT worth.

 

Those that enter into some level of restoration will already have this list on paper. This list is a prerequi-site for planning out the budget for their car prior to ever beginning the restoration process. If your car is already built or restored then you will have your receipts and your only real problem is basically to tally up. Many haven’t actually reached the final objective on a project, in that we may have actually upgraded one, two or three of those previously listed categories but not all of them. We could perceivably have a car whose exterior looks rather mundane, but in reality the undercarriage, suspension, steering, electrical systems, engine, transmission, wheels and tires along with the stereo have boosted the investment up to the $12k range. In this instance the only other items to restore will be the Paint and Body. I would add that $12k goes rather quickly these days so this example could well be on the lower end of the spectrum.

 

Well, this is where knowing your enemy comes into play. Keep in mind that your adjuster is not only pumped up on coffee, nicotine, soft drinks, and sugar donuts, they are probably bored and lethargic from their greasy fast food for breakfast or lunch and that they are overworked while in their minds also under-paid. On top of this they have to deal with family problems after hours. Another interesting fact is that most adjusters have aggressive personalities so you could throw in edgy as well.

[Kevin Shasteen]

5th & Final Entry:

 

In-House Rules

 

The insurance company’s trump card may be to put demands on you that you can not remove any parts because they don’t allow it! You keep reminding them that, “This Car Is Not Their Car and last time you checked you didn’t need their permission to remove any items from your car.†Furthermore, you can also remind them you did not ask their insured to pick you out of a crowd and hit you - ruining your car and your day (more posturing). If you are not satisfactorily indemnified then they have prejudiced you and you are pretty sure a small claims court jury would also see it your way. IN COMMERCE THERE MUST BE EQUITY so their offer must be equitable. This means you and they must agree to the value or there is no agreement there is only unjust profit. As long as the car is still your car, as you have not signed the title over to them yet, then the car belongs to you and you can do with your vehicle what you want.

 

However, in your negotiations, you must also keep in mind, if you expect them to buy your salvage, which they are bound to do once they have accepted fault and agreed to total your vehicle, you and they will have to reach an agreed price. If push comes to shove, they may not want to buy your salvage with-out renegotiating its value now that they know said vehicle will be an incomplete vehicle due to the parts you are removing. See how this works, it all depends on how you negotiate and how you respond to their negotiations. This is where you remind them that you didn’t ask for their insured to recklessly pick you out of a crowd and slam your vehicle (more posturing); go ahead and remind them that you were just fine and happy with the slow but sure progress of the restoration of your vehicle as your budget allowed (more posturing).

 

This is where the negotiations may get a little tedious, but always be respectful. Also, if they try to tell you it is against their policy to allow components to be removed, you must call them on this. You must remind them that there are no agreements between you and them, therefore their policy is simply that: it is their policy and not yours! Their agreement is with their insured and not you. This means that ‘Their Policy’ doesn’t apply to you.

 

Take this one step further, there is no policy between you and they, therefore they can not administra-tively tell you what you can or can’t do with your vehicle. Ask them for the law, in the state where the accident occurred, that prohibits you from removing any items from your vehicle prior to settlement of your claim. They won’t have an answer for this question. You just called them on their bluff and because they didn’t have a legal answer you just scored in the posturing game again. If they wish to maintain their denial of you removing any items they will have to consult with one of their attorneys.

 

Each time you and the adjuster reach an “Impenetrable Wall†always remind the adjuster that you know they are going to work with you toward a reasonable settlement and that you appreciate their assistance. Remind them that this is time consuming to you and very emotional (more posturing with a little positive restructuring). After all, this was your project, it was your baby! Remind them that many a time you en-visioned you and your spouse or a friend cruising the main street on a Friday night, and now all those dreams literally came ‘crashing’ to a halt – pun intended. Tell them you really were emotionally trauma-tized by the fact that you are loosing your car and that it took you a few days to get over this (yeah, more posturing). They must understand that you had more than simply a dollar value invested in your car. This project, in its incremental restoration, was and has consumed part of your life (more posturing): ask them if they are going to reimburse you for all your labor you have tied up in the repairs you personally have made.

 

Bargaining Chips

 

Many times an insurance company will not budge due to ‘Whatever’ reasons. In this case you can get creative. Prior to ever speaking to your adjuster, you need to know what is negotiable and what is non-negotiable. This is something only you can answer. When you hit a brick wall in the negotiations you may wish to alter your approach but you won’t know how or when to alter your approach if you don’t first know what is and what is not alterable or negotiable. In competition the winning team will always be the team that is best prepared.

 

Before beginning your negotiations, list on a piece of paper about 5 components you absolutely want to keep. Then list 5 components you don’t mind letting go that may have value to someone walking through a salvage yard if they saw your wrecked car sitting there. Now, after the insurance company has agreed to total your classic, you postured your offense to their offer, tricked them into giving an itemized value to your major components. Afterward you advised them you would like to keep those 10 items. Keep in mind they will not want to negotiate on you removing anything. So you begin by attempting to negotiate the 5 items you don’t really want (keeping in mind they don’t know you don’t really care about these 5 items). What you are doing is attempting to shock them with the fact that you are going to keep these 10 items.

 

They are now offended that you didn’t tell them earlier that you wanted to keep said items or aghast that the negotiations are getting out of control and taking way too long to close this claim and blah, blah, blah: absolutely not is their response. So you and they jockey for positioning on why or why not the items are going to be removed. Then somewhere you agree to not remove said items (one or all five of the items you didn’t really want to begin with) but don’t give them up all together. Allow the negotiations to play out one item conceded at a time. Maybe one or two items every three or four days: this will wear them out mentally.

 

Remember, any time that is consumed by you that does not lead up to a settlement is time wasted in their minds. It is kind of like a football game where one team controls the ball for most of the game. Usually the team that controls the ball also controls the clock. The team that controls the clock usually wins. Same principle goes for you. The longer you keep your adjuster on the phone and the more times you require the adjuster to call you back is indicative of you controlling their clock. You may even wish to disagree about letting any of those five items go and tell them you will have to think about it. Hang up and call back in three or four days. Finally, after you have negotiated the unwanted items you can advise them the other items are non-negotiable. They are must have items. If you end up dealing with a BI ad-juster or a Lit adjuster you will literally drive them crazy. Simply because they were expecting an easy PD claim and now, “This thing is just plain dragging out!†You will be getting under their skin as at the end of each phone call they will have to re-Diary their claim for additional follow up. Mentally you win again.

 

If the negotiations get heated, don’t ask to speak to their supervisor. Usually the supervisor will simply hear your complaints and then advise you that your adjuster is the adjuster handling your claim and you will have to work things out with that adjuster. The only time you should ask for their supervisor is if your adjuster goes beyond what is considered ethically and morally appropriate. Otherwise you asking for their supervisor will be fruitless. You will simply end up talking to your adjuster again and in this scenario your adjuster just won a point in the negotiations.

 

When speaking to the adjuster, concede to them that you would really like to get this claim behind you (more posturing). You realize they are not going to budge on the issue of X, an unwanted item in your mind, but if they would concede on the issue of Y, where Y is also an unwanted item in your mind, then you would concede on the issue of X. See, you are negotiating items that you don’t really care about, all for the sole purpose of wearing the adjuster down. Once you get them to concede on one issue, it is only a matter of pride that they don’t concede on all other issues. This is your objective: getting them to con-cede.

 

After making this offer “SHUT YOUR MOUTH†let your offer sink in. Be sure the next person who speaks is the adjuster – and not you.

 

If they adamantly stand firm in their refusal to accept your new offer you can push it even further; tell them if they concede on the issue of X then you will concede on the issue(s) of Y and Z. Y and Z are also both from the “unwanted items listâ€.

 

Again, after making the new offer SHUT YOUR MOUTH and let the silence stand while they think about your offer. Let them be the next to speak, not you. Within your negotiations you end up with all or the majority of your must have items you can call your adjuster back in a day or two and advise them you have decided you don’t really want the “don’t need items†and will be leaving said items on the car. This will drive them crazy, but hey this is your car and you have the authority to take or leave the items that are yours. Apologize for seeming wishy-washy and that you have never had a project car totaled. Being forced to decide what items are needs –vs– non-needs is difficult. Then tell them you will call them back after you have removed those items, perhaps in another week. Again you are causing their claim file to remain open longer than they expected.

 

This may or may not work-simply because you don’t have an agreement with them, the settlement is only limited to your creativeness within the guidelines of the state where the accident occurred. The car is yours and you as a claimant are not bound by their “Policy†providing you and not your insurance carrier are dealing with the other vehicle's carrier. Knowing this should give you the mindset that you have op-tions. Not allowing the insurance company steam roller to flatten you in its tracks is what negotiations are all about. So just because they make a comment that lines up with their “Policy†doesn’t mean you have to comply as you are not subject to their “Policyâ€.

 

An Offer Made is Binding if Accepted

 

A less than intelligent adjuster will attempt to remove their offer from the table; they may even claim that their offer was only made with the condition that your car was complete and in tact. They can remove their offer if you let them. Yet if you got them to admit the value of each major component previously and you had recorded all your conversations up to now: then you have the value they had assessed to said items and they can not deny that they, the expert, gave you those values. It is in their contract between them and their insured that they, the insurance company, assumes the risk of liability caused by their in-sured. As a result they must indemnify you; otherwise you will or could take your claim to court in front of a jury and the insurance company knows that juries hate insurance companies. Don’t threaten this unless you know what you are doing as some states don’t allow the jury to know if and when an insurance company is involved: this is done in order to minimize a jury’s decision regarding damages. If you are going to play the “I’m going to Sue†card when the negotiations stall, be sure you know if your state courts do allow the jury to know if an insurance company is involved. Otherwise you may come out on the losing side.

 

If the adjuster attempts to remove their offer, simply remind them that their offer was made in good faith and your acceptance of their [uNCONDITIONAL] offer was likewise made in good faith. They may counter by claiming you were disingenuous when you tricked them into itemizing the value of each com-ponent. Remind them that they are the expert, not you and you don’t even know what they mean by “Dis-ingenuous†(more Posturing). Again, remind them you are only trying to resolve this situation that “THEIR INSURED†(more Posturing) created when “THEIR INSURED†(more Posturing) plowed in to your car (more Posturing) and just because your demands don’t line up with their policy doesn’t mean you were “Disingenuousâ€: it means you are trying to right their insured’s wrong in a manner that best benefits you (more Posturing) which you have every right to do.

 

Further, if you have a copy of their out sourced estimate you will notice that their form is also itemized; so, if their own out sourced form allows for itemized values for different categories of the car, and it is their form they are using as a rule of thumb for reaching a Fair Market Value, then how is it you yourself are being disingenuous; AND BY THE WAY, you still accept their offer on the value of the itemized components they gave earlier; and if you had been recording all your conversations thus far you have them on tape making that offer (which was made in good faith).

 

You can hold them to their offer and once they discuss this with their supervisor their supervisor will also tell them their offer was in good faith, which was accepted in good faith and that they DID NOT put any CONDITIONS on their offer: then they, the insurance company, are bound by that offer. Is it disingenu-ous for you to obtain the best settlement you can? Of course not, so this is merely posturing on their part; see, I told you this is only a game. You either play to win or you will lose by concession.

 

They may still come up with some legal loop hole; if you wish to push them you can tell them to contact one of their attorney’s they deal with in your state and confirm the offer acceptance policies within your state; and get back to you with their answer: this is more clock management by you. Then and only then will you be interested in listening to their rejection of their own good faith offer; besides, their offer was made to you without any prior conditions (more posturing) and if their offer was made to you, not them-as they can’t make an offer to themselves, how is it they feel comfortable in rejecting an offer they made to you? They don’t represent you and you have not authorized them to speak for you, only you can speak for you; therefore, they can not make a legal decision on your behalf. You speak for you and you have spoken when you accepted their good faith offer (more Posturing). They don’t represent you so they CAN NOT reject their offer made to you. Only you can accept or reject their offer when it is made to you. If they have not put any preconditions on their offer, then there are no preconditions on the removal of their offer; it is merely that, an offer; to which you have accepted (more posturing).

 

Everything Is Negotiable

 

The bottom line I want you to understand is that you don’t have to accept their initial offer without refin-ing their offer and making a counter offer. Your car belongs to you and you can do with your car what you want. Granted, anything you remove from the salvage will diminish your settlement. Yet, if you learn to negotiate you can diminish your losses and that is what negotiations are all about. Everything; and I mean everything with the insurance company is subject to being negotiable.

 

Even when they tell you “No†in one area, I can bet you somewhere down the line, if I am allowed to comb their files, I will find a claim where in they have said “Yes†to the exact same circumstances to which they are now saying “No†to you. The only difference is that when they said “Yes†in another pre-vious claim, they only said “Yes†because it benefited them; and you can take that to the bank.

 

In my final comments I want to remind you of the tension between the different classifications of adjust-ers. Recall there are PD, BI, and Lit adjusters. The adjusters will only place real value on themselves only when they have risen to the realm of a Litigation or BI Adjuster. What is humorous is the fact that any insurance company attributes the majority of their unnecessary losses due to excessive settlement payments to Body Shops that “Padded†the estimate with parts or labor that really wasn’t needed. These losses by themselves are minimal but due to the fact that the insurance company’s bread and butter claims are PD claims, the insurance company will be subjected to a higher ratio of PD claims than BI or Lit claims. This means the probability of unneeded costs are going to be higher on the PD side than on the BI or Lit side of settlements. So there will be more PD claims than there will be BI and Lit claims; thus set-ting the insurance company up for more little hidden losses above and beyond what should’ve been paid out in the first place: due to padded estimates. This is one main area where the cliché “Loss Control through Cost Control†(Puke-Yuk, I can’t believe I said it again) is emphasized. You really have no idea how many times this cliché is verbally thrown in the face of an adjuster as they rise through the ranks.

 

What I’m getting at is tension between the pecking order of a PD, BI, and Litigation adjuster. This atti-tude only exists in an individual who has an ego that is easily bruised. The insurance company, just like any other place of employment, is full of egos. Because this rift does exist between the three categories of adjusters; many PD adjusters are out to prove something. They want to prove what a great PD adjuster they are by handling as many claims as they possibly can in as little time as required. This way they will hopefully be called upon next time an opening for a BI or Lit adjuster rolls around.

 

The problem arises in that most PD adjusters are not mechanically inclined. So they make decisions in-volving payments where they really don’t owe payments or they will make a denial based on ego rather than propriety. Sure, they are sent to the numerous powder puff mechanical training courses that exist; but if auto mechanics or auto body repair isn’t in your blood then there really isn’t anyway you can intel-ligently debate a mechanical or chassis repair issue.

 

Most attorneys don’t have a clue when it comes to auto mechanics either. This lack of mechanical knowledge on the part of your PD adjuster is also something you can use to your advantage. We are talk-ing about bruising the ego of your enemy. You do this when the adjuster attempts to tell you your dam-ages are not that excessive or your car is not that valuable. You can ask them, “Where were they all those mornings at 1 or 2 pm when you were busting your knuckles by star light at any one of the many up-grades made to your classic? Where were they? They were fast asleep, so don’t let them get away with that nonsense (yes, more posturing), it is the truth but it is also more posturing.

 

So, if your vehicle is not a total and the insurance adjuster is attempting to tell you how minimal your damages are, you may find a little Posturing is required. Keep in mind, when we posture, we really don’t care about their initial response; we are setting the adjuster up mentally, regardless of whether they know or not, and they have to respond to your mental challenge. If they don’t respond then you win because they are attempting to ignore your comment (posturing on their part); if they do respond you still win be-cause you forced them to respond to a challenge; either way they are not in control of the conversation.

 

They may respond by telling you how crazy you are: yet this is a response you forced from them: because you forced them to engage you in a manner they would have preferred not to puts you in control again. In other words it is engagement on your terms and as a result they have lost control of the negotiations and when this occurs, their poor little dominant egos will be highly bruised.

 

Any response is good as it is setting a tempo. This tempo is being set on your terms and not theirs. This is usually reversed: in most cases the insurance company sets the standards and most people never chal-lenge them. You can challenge them simply by asking them what past experiences or what degrees they hold in repairing the mechanics of a vehicle, or a chassis/carriage of a vehicle. Unless they respond with the answer that they worked as a technician for [x] amount of years at [x] dealership or private shop or that they were a field appraiser recently brought in house; unless they are accredited they will have to give you considerations for your demands. Even if they admit they hold no automotive degrees other than an adjuster’s license to handle claims-you have again forced them to admit they don’t have any real knowl-edge in repairing automobiles. If they have no real knowledge on repairing a classic or a hot rod, how then can they pretend to place a value on the individualism of your car (More Posturing)?

 

The more time you force them to “review the fileâ€, which simply means they consulted with their super-visor, makes them look stupid in the eyes of their supervisor as well as incompetent in your eyes. Again you are bruising their precious ego.

 

If they are accredited, then you can use this to your advantage. You can applaud them in their achieve-ments and inquire, “Since you have this working knowledge of auto mechanics, then you can understand my concerns?†Either way, you win. A seasoned field appraiser has been diligently trained and has writ-ten so many appraisals on damages to cars, homes and other property that they know the PD side of de-termining damages. If they don’t have any past previous experience then you just won the “Credibility†battle. You just called their bluff. You just won the battle in forcing them to admit “They don’t really know what they are doing!†Yes they know how to fill in a blank insurance form of one kind or another but you have just forced them to admit they don’t know anything about cars. Can you not see the humor here? They just admitted that they are incompetent in determining the value of your car! YOU WIN.

 

To add insult to injury, in a nice way, if you get the adjuster to admit they know nothing about cars you can chuckle and say something like, “I sure wish I could get paid doing something I know nothing aboutâ€: then just chuckle as in your statement was meant as humor not a jab. Even though it is a jab and more posturing on your part-it gets the point across: again you win in that area.

 

Even if they give you a round a bout answer; you still won and they know it, even if they won’t admit anything you busted their inflated ego and this is why most BI/Litigation adjusters hate PD claims. If they ask why you inquired to their automotive skills you can say you are just making sure that your claim gets handled as correctly as possible as you want to ensure you are properly reimbursed for your damages THAT THEIR INSURED CAUSED (more posturing). If they didn’t answer your previous question as to their ability to assign value to your car, be sure and not let them off the hook that easy: ask your question again, “What experience do you have in determining the damages to my car?†Chances are good your adjuster, on a PD claim, is merely an individual without any prior experience in cars, attempting to work their way up the pay scale to a BI or Lit adjuster.

 

Reading from the Appraisers Estimate

 

Once they receive the estimated damages on your vehicle the fact is they don’t really understand it. They would like you to believe they understand the estimate-but they don’t really understand it. You must keep in mind when you come across an adjuster with an ego, that this kind of an adjuster places extreme value in always having the right answer. So when you have pushed them to the point of admitting they are in-competent without actually admitting that they don’t know what they are doing, then you have just hum-bled them in their field of alleged expertise. If they do admit they don’t know how to interpret value to a classic or a hot rod then you know they don’t have an ego and that they are neither fluid nor eloquent in their bed side manners of claims negotiations, and that they just made a public admission that they don’t know what they are doing as an adjuster. Again, your posturing has scored you another score in the in-surance game.

 

Let us say your car is not a total and therefore your car is repairable. We find ourselves having their esti-mate in your hands. Once you and they are once again on the phone you can ask them as many questions as you like about the estimate; especially how the labor time on repainting the vehicle is generated. Unless you were a paint and body man most adjusters don’t really understand how the labor time of the paint process is determined. In painting a vehicle you will always have overlap and blending time. Ques-tion them on every issue of importance you can come up with: just make sure your questioning takes on an air of reality. By doing so, you will have again challenged them in a manner that forces them to admit their ignorance (more posturing on your part) combined with clock management in you favor if they have to ask someone else for an explanation-and then call you back. Their pat answer will either be made up or they will admit they simply go by whatever their field appraiser’s estimate says is needed; if it says it is needed then it is needed. Or your PD adjuster will put you on hold while they walk a few desks away to ask their favorite knowledgeable PD adjuster, who does have experience on how to answer the question you just asked.

 

The message I’m attempting to send is this; every adjuster regardless if they are a PD, BI or Litigation adjuster, will take “PRIDE†in their knowledge of handling their claims. This is not a normal pride one usually takes into “doing a good jobâ€: this pride of an adjuster is a must win pride. They must posture themselves in a way that gives you the perception that they always have the answer: otherwise they are incompetent and will always be overlooked when a BI or Lit position opens.

 

The adjuster from day one of their training is taught to sharpen their “Negotiation Skillsâ€; aka, more pride. It is this “Foolish Pride†that becomes their weakness. Once you have successfully attacked and weakened their pride their tone will change and more than likely from there on out you will be seen as a worthy claimant; you are a tried and trued Gladiator. They will either get defensive or they will soften their attitude. If they get defensive then you have moved them out of their comfort zone. If they don’t get defensive then they will be less likely to argue and try to settle your claim as quickly as possible: this too is a win for you as you have softened their defenses. Providing you posture yourself in a respectful manner, you will find your negotiations will be less tedious when dealing with the insurance company.

 

The insurance game is but a game, an illusion; but one that is forced upon us by the world. There are many other illusions that are forced upon us. Try and think of them for what they are, hollow and they only carry the force that your mind gives them.

 

Kevin,

(Yea,Still an Inlner)

[Oldestzguy]

Mike is so very right.

 

In my personal life and professional life, I've dealt with the smallest of claims and many other claims; one as high as $36 million and have won them all even though each and every one was a death battle. I have paid one company on time for 27 years and was then the only guy on a cu-de-sac to not get roof damage covered immediately that was caused by a very rare hail storm. My company was a different company than all the rest. The reason was that their corporate home office decided all the claims would cost too much with this big storm so they did not pay any of them. The only people that got paid were the ones that could sue them and they knew it. They paid me after a two month argument and promptly cancelled me.

 

My sister in law used to be a hot sweet woman with an honest personality. She became a claims adjuster and now she is a fat, pissed off, divorced, man hater, that assumes everyone is a damn liar from the get go and she can't wait to kick them in the balls to get her tiny bonus. I have watched her lie to demolish somebody over a claim she could easily pay and then do high fives all around the room and brag she is the best when the claimants finally give up whether they were crying or not.

 

My advice is play the game to break even. They have made liars out of all of us just to break even and maintain our own dignity by not being abused. In other words, if you are in a street fight; don't be bouncing around with your fists up looking for the referee. Anticipate, adapt, and win at all costs, just exactly like they do. Bite, kick, lie, protect your family and your assets. You have no choice against them and never will.

 

I don't even have life insurance. I don't want my wife arguing after I am dead with some poor 24 year old brainwashed guy that used to be nice that thinks he is doing the right thing when he won't give her money for food. I've handled it another way.

 

I respect the Mafia more, and the ones that don't haven't had enough claims yet either in business or personal.

 

PASS THIS ONE ALONG:

We have all been late with a payment once in a while and the companies do not worry about it because you have a well documented "grace" period where your coverage does not lapse if you are a little late on your payment. They will tell you to your face that there will be no lapse. If you call them they will tell you over and over and over that you have coverage if you get the payment in late but it has to be within the "grace" period. YOU HAVE NO COVERAGE. YOUR COVERAGE STOPS ON THE EARLIER DATE PERIOD!!!. The "grace" period only means they will not cancel you for future coverage if you get the payment in during that period. IF YOU HAVE A CLAIM WITHIN THIS GRACE PERIOD, YOU ARE NOT COVERED AT ALL. You could just as easily go get insurance somewhere else. I mean what could be better for them than you giving them more money for no exposure on their part for that little time period. Their grace period is just their way of keeping you as a future continuing customer by letting you continue the policy (actually quickly re-upping the policy) and they just make you think there is no interruption in coverage. THIS IS NOT TRUE !! There is interruption in coverage but not premium. The salesmen I have talked to usually don't believe this. Have a claim and see what happens. Read your policy. They will keep you only if there is no claim leading to expense for them. They are trained not to tell you this. I have received this same info from every insurance company I researched so far. Ask your lawyer.

 

One day I might tell you about "mysterious disappearance" homeowners insurance that sounds wonderfull. What a rip off.

 

Claims are set up to be a death battle instead of "good hands" and "neighbors".

[Guest Mike]

Oldestzguy is RIGHT ON EVERY COUNT!! IMHO, this is FAILURE of our elected officials to protect the consumer. Insurance is BIG BUSINESS and we all know WHO SLEEPS with big business. Sorry for the politcal rant but we cannot expose the CAUSE of this rotten limb without digging up the roots!!

[Oldestzguy]

As far as the original thread subject goes; I have only seen "care, custody and control" usually exclude coverage if the car is somewhere up-for-sale like at the supermarket parking lot or on a car sales consignment lot which in their opinion opens them up to higher risk of theft/damage, etc.

 

DO NOT expect a repair shop's insurance coverage to cover your vehicle as they are liable only for negligence such as if they parked your car next to an open flame and a 5 gal can of gas and it burned up. HAS NEGLIGENCE EVER BEEN PROVEN IN COURT. I doubt it. If something happens out of their resonable control then they are not liable. If your car is stolen at a shop and the shop can show that the shop was locked, had outside lights, and the car was inside; they are not liable and this is when your own insurance takes over as it does at any other time as if it was in your own garage and someone broke in there.

[Guest akhido]

My experience with Geico. Talk about bad luck, a couple years back i bought a new Cadillac CTS. One week old and i'm leaving a restaurant parking lot and the guy in front of me decides he doesn't want to go out that way and with me honking the horn backs right in to me. I had a witness and got his license and insurance and such.. Called Geico and they said. " what do you want us to do?" I was stunned. Well I want you to handle this claim with his insurance company. The rep said well if you handle it yourself you wont get any points on your record with us. If we handle it your rates will go up. Didn't matter that i was not at fault. So I called his insurance AAA and took care of it. They were quick and efficient 6 months later i got my renewal and Geico raised my rates from $950 a year to $1850. Mind you i have no speeding tickets or marks of any other kind. I went to Triple A and got insurance and even renters insurance for only $1025. 2 months later i was broken in to and they handled everything great. The only thing about that stinking lizard is that he forced me to go to Triple

I still swear at the screen every time i see that stupid gecko:cool: