TheNeedForZ Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Been reading about the GenIII GM engines for a while and was wondering : will the 6.0 genIII iron block truck engines with 4L80E automatic transmission be a good swap for the Z? What's the main difference between 4l60e and 4l80e? capability? weight? size? I have searched but didn't see questions like this. I don't think anyone has done the swap.... Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete84 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 The 4L80E shares a very good portion of its components with the Turbo 400, most notable difference is the overdrive and electronic shifting. THe 4L60E is the electronic version of the 700R4. Correct me if I'm wrong, but imho the 4L60E would be plenty strong for a Z. http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/gm_4l80e_automatic_transmission_review/ Picture of the 4L80E, 4L60 / 700R4, and Turbo 400, article on the 4L80E in hot rod applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I agree that the 4l60 is strong enough for anything but huge power if built accordingly. There are people running 2004r (700r4/4l60's smaller brother) behind big blocks. Personally I think the 2004r is the ticket with the closer gearing and lighter weight however I'm not sure about mating it to the gen3 block. I think the 4l80 is overkill for anything under say 500hp to be conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusterZ Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Check out SilveradoSS.com web site (I dive one every day) and do a search. There's quite a bit of tranny swap info for the LQ9 6.0L motor. Its been done there on quite a few trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNeedForZ Posted March 8, 2007 Author Share Posted March 8, 2007 thanks to you all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burrl Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 My daily driver is an 03 Silverado SS w/a 6.0 and a Radix intercooled Magnacharger. I'll have to say that thing blows my mind every time I punch it all 4 wheels go up in smoke. I consistantly red line it and it never complains! I run 9 psi of boost but, even before the supercharger it was an amazingly powerful engine, and smooth!! I'm going to put this setup in burrl after this season. 6.0, 4L60E, rock solid! :icon2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlkrich2003 Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 The 4L60E is the way to go for a Z. This is the electronic version of the 700r4 and can handle anything you give it. That is, of course if you have it built to handle it. The 4L80E is overkill and is used in very heavy trucks, mainly for hauling heavy loads. The weight difference is i quite alot. I have a built 4L60E in my 4X4 truck (handles 550 HP), and a 700r4 in my 240z (handles 550 HP as well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeshoe Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 The 4L60E is the way to go for a Z. This is the electronic version of the 700r4 and can handle anything you give it. That is, of course if you have it built to handle it. The 4L80E is overkill and is used in very heavy trucks, mainly for hauling heavy loads. The weight difference is i quite alot. I have a built 4L60E in my 4X4 truck (handles 550 HP), and a 700r4 in my 240z (handles 550 HP as well). What is the weight difference between a 4L60E and a 4L80E? I think many of the members of the 3rd and 4th Gen Camaro websites, as well as the ImpalaSS forum and any other site that might disagree that the 4L60's will hold up to "anything you can give it". They break them regularly, the trucks guys break them regularly in stock applications. I saw this often at the GM dealership where I worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 What do you think about the 700r4's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeshoe Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 What do you think about the 700r4's? A 700-R4 is the same as a 4L60 (GM's nomenclatured changed although the transmission did not), a 4L60-E is the later model electronically controlled version of the 700-R4. Below ~400-450 HP they work reasonably well. Particularly in a lightweight Z car for street use they would be fine, above that and I would recommend using some other transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusterZ Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 "What is the weight difference between a 4L60E and a 4L80E?" If I remember correctly the 4L80E is both heavier and longer than the 4L60E by quite a bit. You can modify the 4L60E to handle more power but i'd agree with jakeshoe, in the much lighter Z the 4L60e would work well. Traction will limit quite a bit of the shock. The all-wheel drive on the SS helps to punish it on launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeshoe Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Buster, I know the weight of a 4L80E, and can weigh a 4L60 if needed but I know the 4L80 isn't as heavy as most people claim or think. What you see is many people who read somewhere that the 4L80 is a gazillion lbs and perpetuate the myth all around the internet, but most have never touched a 4L80E, or would even know what one is if they saw it. I rebuild GM racing automatic transmissions and the 4L80 is one of the units I specialize in. The other myth is that it is huge. It is a bit longer than a TH400 and 30 lbs heavier. The bellhousing and main case area are about the same diameters as a TH400, so if a Th400 will fit, a 4L80E won't be too bothersome to install. The TH400 is about the same weight as a 700-R4 or 4L60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusterZ Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Thanks jakeshoe, I thought i remembered reading on the SS site that there was about 40 lbs diffefence. I know several of the guys there have swapped out the 4L60E on supercharged trucks for the durability of the 80E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 I rebuild GM racing automatic transmissions and the 4L80 is one of the units I specialize in. So is the 4l80 what you would recommend over 450 hp. Isn't that pretty much the only other option? Would you not even consider the 2004r? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeshoe Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 The 200-4R is a very good unit up to about the 600HP level (with mods). It is a better design than the 700-R4/4L60E's IMO. The 200 can be built to withstand ~800 HP fairly reliably, however once you get over the 600 HP level, it needs alot of expensive hard parts that make the 4L80 a better choice in MOST applications. I build TH350's, TH400's, 200-4R's, 4L80E's, and occasional Glides for performance use. Notice the units I do not build for performance applications.... I do have a 700R4 in the shop currently to be built but it is for a stock application, but towing use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNeedForZ Posted March 9, 2007 Author Share Posted March 9, 2007 If I purchase a Gen III iron block truck engine that originally comes with 4L80E auto, let's say if I want to use 4L60E instead, what are the things I need to do to use the 4L60E? Does it bolt right up to the engine? What about changing the ECM since it controls the shift points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeshoe Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 If you have a 6.0L with a 4L80E and want to use a 4L60E, you have to change the flexplate, use a 4L60E converter, and repin the main connector at the trans. You'll have to add one wire to run the 4L60E. 6.0L and 4L80E for a retrofit into a customer's car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sbcperformance Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 If you have a 6.0L with a 4L80E and want to use a 4L60E, you have to change the flexplate, use a 4L60E converter, and repin the main connector at the trans. You'll have to add one wire to run the 4L60E. 6.0L and 4L80E for a retrofit into a customer's car. what pin are you talking about? I just did a 6.0 swap in my 04 silverado and all I had to do was swap the flywheel on the engine and bolt in the 60e verter. I did fry the trans and verter shortly thereafter but I figured it was too much for the 60 to handle which is what I have been told. And I would figure that no matter what application you were putting it in that too much power means just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeshoe Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 what pin are you talking about? I just did a 6.0 swap in my 04 silverado and all I had to do was swap the flywheel on the engine and bolt in the 60e verter. I did fry the trans and verter shortly thereafter but I figured it was too much for the 60 to handle which is what I have been told. And I would figure that no matter what application you were putting it in that too much power means just that. The question was about swapping a 4L60 trans in place of a 4L80E behind a 6.0L motor. If you are using a wiring harness originally intended for a 4L80E trans it differs from the 4L60E version. There are 3 wires that must be "re-pinned", one of which you will have to add onto the 4L80 harness to operate the 4L60E. A 4L60E has a 3-2 downshift solenoid, a 4L80E does not, thus the one wire difference. The 4L80E has an input and an output speed sensor, the 4L60E's only have an output until the very late models, 2005'ish or so. You will simply not connect the input speed sensor on the 4L60E. You will have to reflash the PCM to run the 4L60E. The question was not about swapping from a 4.8 or 5.3 to a 6.0L. No wiring changes necessary, just a re-tune/flash of the PCM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sbcperformance Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 ok Im just tryin to track down what went wrong with my personal swap. Note to all doing a 6.0 swap lol make sure there is no spacer between flywheel and engine if going with 60or65e tranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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