HarrisonTX Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 my plans for the t-5 and 302(yes chevy 302) are still in the works, but coming along real slow due to the expence of the 302 parts, and the WC t-5s costing $500+. I located a 283, from a '63 vette with a holley and aluminum intake for $200 complete, minus dizzy cap, and starter. I have a spare 4 speed (super t-10) with a shifter. Got all my gauges, so it looks my only expensive parts coming up is the JTR kit, and a bellhousing and clutch parts, and exhaust, thats gonna be killer. im pumped! fyi, the motor has been sittin for a while, so im actually building a run-in engine stand to test her out and see if it gets oil pressure so i know if ill need to rebuild it or im good to go how it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 302(yes chevy 302) are still in the works, but coming along real slow due to the expence of the 302 parts, What's expensive about them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario_82_ZXT Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Cool! I was actually searching around and I like the idea of the 302 because of the revs and the ability to use the SC I have. Mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrisonTX Posted March 8, 2007 Author Share Posted March 8, 2007 What's expensive about them? I used to see them at swap meets for $300, now they are atleast $500, plus bellhousing. Mario, i think the 302 will be cool. I'm running 180cc afr's and a mechanical roller cam. The 283 is just to get the car setup. Whats an SC? supercharger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Mario, i think the 302 will be cool. I'm running 180cc afr's and a mechanical roller cam. oh, now that might be interesting. That's a lot of head for that engine IMO which is not a bad thing. I always think of the vortec heads as being a hot ticket for 283,302,305 engines. How high are you going to spin the engine? Now I see where the money is going.....haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario_82_ZXT Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Whats an SC? supercharger? Yep, supercharger. I've seen a few 283s on craigslist here, but they seem to be higher in price then what you can find them at. Mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrisonTX Posted March 8, 2007 Author Share Posted March 8, 2007 383, Im shooting for around 7500-8000. so far i have Forged crank, forged h-beams, high-comp pistons, block, afr's, and my solid rollers. My big question is what cam, intake, and carb. Mario, 283's are out there, just look on ebay, and swap meets. Im sure theres lots around AZ. You can get a 302 with a 283 crank in a 4inch bore block, as long as the crank journals are the same. some are small journal, which is 2.00 and large which is 2.10 mains... i think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 What kind of power are you looking to get out of it? All top end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrisonTX Posted March 9, 2007 Author Share Posted March 9, 2007 Pretty much all top end, but with 3.90 rear, it shouldnt be too bad around town. lol, no offence to you, but i dont get why guys build 383's, or any other tourqy motor thats just gonna make brute low rpm tourqe, and them complain about abliterating the tire. i want the car to be rollin before my power comes online. I dont really have a hp goal in mind, from all the 302 builds 350hp is pretty much given to you, with a solid roller cam, and afrs, i should be around 400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 lol, no offence to you, but i dont get why guys build 383's, or any other tourqy motor thats just gonna make brute low rpm tourqe, and them complain about abliterating the tire. i want the car to be rollin before my power comes online. Haha, well since you went there I don't see why you would buy all new internals and blow BIG buck for a 302 when a 350 could make the same power with less than half the money on stock internals and you wouldn't have to crank it to high heavens. The 350 will live longer especially the valvetrain because you won't have to run as much lift or see as many rpm's. When you spend that much money on an engine I would think you would want to get as much power out of the application as you could get across the powerband. Up until some time (tuning) ago I was getting great traction in all gears and I'm still running 195/70/14's. With a pair of halfway decent tires I personally would get amazing traction. In general once you get these Z's to squat (atleast the later ones) traction is pretty impressive. If it doesn't then the peddle is how you get the desired traction. Having too much power is not a problem. Anyway let's not start an argument, I'm just stating my opinion as you have yours and I respect that. WITH THAT SAID, I like how you're going about building this engine and it sounds like it will be a blast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Good answer. I'd like to see what the 302 can do in the Z. I KNOW what a 383 can do Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrisonTX Posted March 9, 2007 Author Share Posted March 9, 2007 280z. thanks for keepin it civil. i will admit 350s are cheap, the 302 isnt real expensive, i just dont make too much $, so when i make around $1300 a month, and spend $1330 on heads, it seems more $ than it is. Like the pistons are forged speed pro's, kindahard to find, and they were only $350, and block was $200, and the forged crank (that lists on mortec as a 283 military tank crank) was only like $200, its not too much more than a 350. And 7500 maybe "high heaven" to a 350, but not so much a 302. Heres a quote from one of my books. The 302 ".....When prototypes were dyoned at 8000 rpm the exhaust, which was piped directly outside made people nearby think they were hearing an air raid sire..... it was the stroke and big bores that made these engines such capable revvers. ..... what they lacked in torque they made up for in horsepower" I do agree with you, about the valve train not lasting as long, i will use high quailty parts. I dont really have to run crazy lift either. I have a build sheet for a 501 hp 302, heres the cam card .448 lift (exh) 282 degrees at .050 .444 lift (int) 290 degrees at .050 12.1 (eek) compresion holley 830 (just one ) RPM Hp 5500 364 6500 447 7500 483 8000 501 ... and thats with ancient stuff, my afr's and new cam tech will really come into play here now, i have built 2 350's, and they are fun i will admit. I have a 406 on my engine stand that im about to build, i picked up the 283 last night, and the 302 is also in the works. Im just tryin all kinds of small block stuff. 302's dominated the trans am series in the 60's i cant wait to run her around a track. Everyone builds 383's and 355's im just doing something different, and getting hell from alot of people (not so much you tho) and im loven every minute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 1.) I need to be on your budget!! 2.) The duration on that cam is insane! 3.) With one of your projects why not build a 350/383 that you can rev up like you want to. Heck people take big blocks up to 7k on a regular basis. I've taken my 383 up past 7k a few times (not on purpose usually). I'm running the stock roller lifters and pushrods out of a '97 truck so I kinda shy away from that. Also, there is never anything wrong with doing something different especially when people ridicule you about it. Sometimes that is the force that drives people to greatness. It's also known as spite but that takes away from the nobility of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 lol, no offence to you, but i dont get why guys build 383's, or any other tourqy motor thats just gonna make brute low rpm tourqe, and them complain about abliterating the tire. i want the car to be rollin before my power comes online. That is because you are building them wrong. Use a single plane intake, big runners, heavy cam. All the stuff the Car Craft and Hot Rod mags say to not do when you are putting an engine in an overweight 60's muscle car. Take advantage of the Z's light weight and trade some of that low end torque for high RPM horsepower. Simple fact is the 383 can be built to have more top end HP than the 302 and still have more low end grunt. Basically more power everywhere. Why would you think it better to have less power? The idea that the 302's short stroke can rev higher is an urban myth. There are some limitations to piston speed, but it is the valve train and airflow that are going to limit RPM anyway. Even a 302 won't rev if the valves start to float at 6k. When I first went to build my Z I came here thinking the same as you. Have always wanted a 302 motor ever since the one guy in high school had a 69 Z28. Always heard how the lightweight, narrow tired Z can't use all that low end torque anyway. But then Grumpyvette made me change my ways. Made me realize that large cube motors can be built for high RPM use also. That and the price of 302 rotating assemblies sort of makes it a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 I've always been a cubic inch kind of guy, but recently when I was hunting for a good block for my 350, I drug an old 302 out of the barn that was left over from my dirt track days. It was in surprisingly good shape, trw popups and 292 heads. I'm going to freshen it up and take it to the dyno just for the heck of it, to see what it does. Back then we just built one and ran it, the 302 did well if the track was slick, but couldn't keep up if it was heavy. It's built on an odd looking 010 block with a K on it on top of the bell housing, the only one I've seen like that. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Just FYI. My basic 350 (362 cid) in a 71 240 makes great power all the way to valve float (7200 rpm). Using MT drag slicks, run's 11.7's at 120mph, 10.7's on N20 at 135 and 6.9 at 110 in the 1/8. Low 12's on street tires. engine specs 11:1 cr, KB Flat tops, zero deck block, 2 bolt mains, steel crank, stock rods with arp bolts, balanced, 200cc Dart Iron Eagle heads (64cc chambers), Compcam 292H (244/244, 0.501", 110 LSA), Performer RPM intake, 750 vacuum secondary (3310), GM T5, 3.90 gear. Need to shift slowly with a GM T5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino_5150 Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 280z. ".....When prototypes were dyoned at 8000 rpm the exhaust, which was piped directly outside made people nearby think they were hearing an air raid sire..... it was the stroke and big bores that made these engines such capable revvers. ..... what they lacked in torque they made up for in horsepower" Oh, so youre dropping in a Vtec huh? You should be ashamed of yourself quoting the Honda manual here like that! LOL j/k... Honestly, lets be real here... Like you said, the price difference between your 302 and the 350 is negligable at best. Now, with a 350 small block, it cost almost exactly (read:no extra charge) the same to rebuild it into a 383 as it does to freshly rebuild a 350. That's like what, 50 free hp, give or take? And it becomes very easy to hit that 450-500 hp range on a budget. And you get more from your mods. The intake that would have given you 25hp on the 350 might give you 35 on the 383. Same with the cam, heads, etc. etc... If low power is your goal, then hey, youve already hit it with the fresh built 383 and you dont have to fool with it anymore. You will have to spend a ton of money with smaller motors trying to play catch up as the 383 makes leaps and bounds in its power levels. As far as low rpm torque, yeah, it comes on strong at about 1,200 or so, and pulls all the way till you piss on yourself or shift, whichever comes first. Remeber: those "torquey" engines usually have hp numbers that match the tq numbers. Properly built, they will rev freely in the low 7k range without too much to worry about. But comparing the redline of 2 different engines really doesn't prove anything. A Honda B18 screaming at 10k rpms making 230hp, or a 383 at 2,500 rpms making 230 hp... What did that prove? The Honda guy will be rebuilding before I am! You really aren't adding too much extra weight, and any that you did gain is grossly offset by the criminal amount of frame twisting power you just gained with it. What was it that Shelby said? Something to the effect of "Horsepower sells cars, but torque wins races..." There is no replacement for displacement... That said, I would love to see the completed 302 swap, just because that's not what everyone else is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Need to shift slowly with a GM T5. I was wondering how your t-5 would handle the power also while I was driving home from work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbk240z Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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