front suspension modifictions

[Guest Anonymous]

Chronicle of my front suspension modifications. I pulled an entire front suspension from a rust bucket 1977 280 Z and stripped all the components from the cross member antcipating that I would have to do everything at least three times to get one modifiction right. .........10 inch coil overs, bumpsteer modification, 2 inch section of strut tube housings, 2+2 sway bar and vaccum brake, 1979-85 Toyota 4x4 brake caliper and new brake proportioning valve. My project car shows signs that the passenger side of the suspension has had suspension work done on it from an accident and may be "tweeked". The replacement cross member looked straight with minor surface rust in a few places. I made a stainless steel jig to accomplish the bumpsteer modification by fitting the jig to the curvature of the lower edges of the crossmember below the 9/16ths lower control arm bolt holes. I drilled the 9/16ths hole in the jig material and bolted the jig to the cross member using the lower control arm bolt and nut. Straight up fom this stock bolt attachment, a 3/16th pilot hole was drilled in the jig to locate the new control arm bolt hole for bump steer modification exactly 3/4 inch up from the lower bolt hole for the control arm with no offset for negatve or positive camber. After completing the 3/16th pilot hole the completed jig was bolted to the stock lower control arm hole locations and a 3/16th starter hole was surface drilled 3/4 of an inch higher up on the cross member. The cross member was taken to a drill press where the final 9/16ths holes were drilled for the bumpsteer modification. I then cut the upper corners of the lower control arms on a bandsaw so that they would not hit on the undeneath of the crossmember. This cutting modification to the control arms that included grinding was quite severe to the upper sections of the control arms (but I did not get into the welded bead area). I finally hit with a hammer the underneath of the cross member to gain a little more clearance rather than taking more material away from the top of the lower control arm by grinding or sawing.. To do this over I would heat the compromised area undeneath the cross member with a rose bud tip from a torch and liberally pound a little more clearance with a big hammer rather that remove a lot of material from the top of the controal arms. I quit hammering, sawing and grinding when the bolted arms moved freely in their new arc of travel. After the fitting of the control arms in the higher bumpsteer modification bolt holes, the old doubler plates or washers for the lower control arms holes were removed from inside the cross member using an air chisel...I removed the lower spring perch from the disassembled front strut tube housings with a bandsaw followed by a grinder wiich left a welding bead circling the tube. I centered a ruler on the welding bead and scratched a mark one inch on each side of the weld bead for the Two inch lowering section to be removed . I fitted a large pipe cutter to the scratch on the strut tube and grooved a perfect circle around the strut tube until the groove was wide and deep enough for the bandsaw teeth to get a good bite into the pipe cutter groove. This made the bandsaw cut accurate and straight. The pipe cutter pressure may have left an indentation in the strut tube causing later welding and alignment problems with a piece of exhaust pipe inside the strut tube. Tommorrow I will find strap steel to make new doubler plates for the new lower control arm bolt holes relocated higher up on the crossmember and scrap exhaust pipe to fit inside the tubes to align the strut tubes and Thank God the strut tube housings are thick enough to take the heat from my "Crudsman" wire welder.

[Guest Anonymous]

Posting pictures is exactly what I should be doing and that way I can learn how to post pictures of which I do not have many clues

[Scottie-GNZ]

Planning a vacation to Orlando soon? My RF is also "tweaked" and I could use a hand getting it corrected.

[jeromio]

Yeah, except that ljohnson was talking about his car....

 

( Well, someone had to pile it on)

[Guest Anonymous]

Do not think, it is possible to vacation in Florida, every time I get east of the Mississippi River I get scared and come running back to the safety of the Cascade Mountains.... It was not easy to find 1 7/8 outside diameter exhaust pipe. Apparently an odd size. The exhaust pipe fits inside the 280 Z strut tube housing adequetely to align the two sectioned strut pieces for welding and is a very tight fit when the strut tubes get hot from the welding. I did not like the idea of solely relying on the exhaust pipe for alignment and the possibbility of inadvertantly welding the exhaust pipe inside the strut tube. I had an old C clamp that was missing the swivel foot on the end of the screw. I took a piece of bed frame angle iron and drilled a hole from the inside directly in the mid point of the angle slightly smaller than the swivel foot ball on the end of the C clamp screw. This anchoring hole in the center of the angle of the bed frame for the C clamp ball on the end of the screw allows for a good grip without the c clamp slipping off the angle iron jig or the stut tube housing while clamped together. (Bed frame angle iron is light weight and very strong because it is spring steel and is also weldable)I used a wide mouth type of vice grip clamps as a fastener for the second piece of strut tube housing to the angle iron jig. After every thing was properly secured and clamped wpth a slight gap between the two pieces of end beveled strut tubes, the exhaust pipe was inserted into the strut housings for a final check for alignment. I tack welded at intervals around the strut tube, with constant checking of the exhaust pipe for alignment( and to see if I welded the exhaust pipe to the strut tube, which was a big worry to me) I removed the exhaust pipe and and connected all the spot welds with a continious weld bead before unclamping the bedframe jig and welding the spot weld underneath the jig to the other ends of the welded bead to finish the circle around the strut tube housing. The bed frame jig comprised of the smallest angle iron found on the bed frame ,I could find to keep the area the bed frame jig covered on the strut tube to a minimum and to cover only one spot weld underneath it. There is only one way to weld the strut tubes and that is slow and easy with many quality control checks with the exhaust pipe for alignment........ I am literally shooting in the dark at ride height and the lowering effect for these 10 inch Carerra coilovers with Ross Corrigan's hardware which height I will figure out during assembly time.......I could not easily find anything to duplicate the doubler plate washers for the bumpsteer modification to the front cross member and lower control arm; so I bought a 1 1/4 inch piece of strap that was slightly thicker than the stock 16 gauge doubler plate required for the inside of the front cross member to reinforce this area for the lower control arm bolts. The 9/16 inch holes I drilled in the cross member for the control arm bolts came out a little ragged around the edges due to the 9/16th drill bit wanting to bust out of the hole too fast. I drilled good round 9/16 inch holes in the 4 pieces of strap doubler plate all at one time and by properly turning over before before the drill bit tried to bust out and a lot slower pace on the drill press. I clamped the doubler plate strap in and bolted it to the crossmember using the control arm bolts. "Particular attention" needs to be paid to this clamping proceedure since every thing wants to distort from the welding heat to the cross member. I spot welded the doubler plate and then fitted the control arm inside the cross member before final welding. Because the doubler plate strap was thicker I had to file down the bolt tubes of the lower control arm to get a precise fit between the new doubler plates in the cross member. The lower control arm has a rubber mount for the attaching bolt and high heat is very unkind to this rubber. I removed the control arm for final welding. When I was thru final welding and while the crossmember was still hot , I mounted the lower control arm to the cross member because of the welder heat distortion, I hard tightened the lower control arm bolt and nut to take a "set" while the cross member cooled. I would recomend to any one to take the time to get some 16 gauge sheet metal for the doubler plate washer and save yourself a lot of time and bother by not welding in such a long piece that will heat distort the cross member area during welding. I did a lot of metal filing to the lower control arm bolt tubes to overcome the extra thickness of "that over priced steel strap". I am waiting for "de wabbit" strut cartridges AND I STILL HAVE NOT FOUND THE 2+2 FRONT SWAY BAR AND BRAKE VACCUM. The sales gangsters out there in cyber land want a fortune for these old parts.I plan to swash all these parts in some kind of POR 15 paint chemicals. If only I could afford "near chrome" powder coating.My "secret" visa card is getting maxed and needs time to recuperate if not cool off. My second non-GN Turbo Type 2004R is on the way if UPS does not drop it off a fork lift like they did the first Buick Grand National transmission which I went into mourning because of the loss. Still no pictures to explain my written ramblings!!!

[Guest Anonymous]

I started my welding today with a lot of anticipation due to the inappropriate nature of my Craftsman welder. Fortunately every thing was thick enough to handle the high welding heat. It would be hard to blow holes thru that 280 strut housing even with a "Crudsman" wire welder. If it just would blow holes in a straight even line, Sears could advertise it as a dual purpose plasma cutter and wire welder instead of a welder that cuts (blows holes) while it welds. Unlike "Owen" I hide all sledge hammers while operating it. Today the welder even surprised me while I was , making as much noise as possible while my neighbor's worthless ex-husband was tryin to sleep off the weekend's hangover.........Man, those air guns are loud chiseling

[Guest Anonymous]

Bumpsteer Modifiction Blues with number dyslexia. I had a nagging suspicion that somehow all my suspension work was going too good considering I have had a life long problem with number dyslexia. I measured my bumpsteer modification jig this morning for the lower crossmember and found it to be more like 15/16 ths rather than the planned 3/4 inch upward movement length. Research shows that Jeronimo did a 15/16ths modification and Pete P. recomends heims joints on the steering knuckles and tie rod to correct camber. Did I go to far??? I have two more lower cross members!

[pparaska]

Wow, I never remember saying to use heim joints, but I forget alot of things . Mike Kelly says that his heim jointed Dr. Z control arms never made any more noise than stock though.

 

Glad you decided to just use a piece of angle iron. To me this is the best way to get those cut strut tubes aligned. Once you have it tacked in about 4 good places evenly around the tubes, it's not going to move and you can just take the angle away and alternate opposite sides of the tube for the final welding.

 

MAKE SURE YOU TEST THE WELDING THAT IT'S WATER TIGHT. I found out the hard way on one of my tubes and had to go back and fix a pin hole leak at the end of one the weld beads.

 

15/16" may be fine. No way to tell without installing everything and testing the bumpsteer.

Don't worry about it until you measure the bumpsteer - it may be just fine. You can always convert the outer tie rod ends to heim joints and this will allow you to fine tune the bumpsteer to make up for taking the inner CA pivot up the extra small amount you did.

 

I was wondering why you were having to dimple the underside of the crossmember. I guess that's why.

 

BTW, the metal on the control arm to the inside half of the bushing tube is unstressed and along for the ride, so trimming it in the fashion that the JTR manual shows is not a problem.

[jeromio]

I haven't had any problems with the 15/16 inch relocation. Like I say on my site, I found some information that suggested 1 inch, so I see no reason to think 15/16 won't be just fine - especially on a lowered car.

 

I did move mine out by 1/4 inch at the same time though, which probably is why I didn't have as much trouble with my arms. I just cut little triangles out of the ends and then hammered down the sheet metal on each arm.

 

BTW, the 1/4 inch out really increases negative camber. Probably too much for a street car. I'm gonna end up having to get some adjustable arms to dial it back a bit (how's that for turning lemons into beer?).

[Guest Anonymous]

I went to a junkyard in the rain today to get the 2+2 sway bar and vaccium brake booster. This was a yard that pulled the parts for you but since it is hard to find people to work in the rain; they were short handed. The 2+2 was one old well maintained 78 Z that got into an arguement with either another car or an immovable object. The brakes were up, tight and firm as any male teenager on prom night. They wanted $70.00 for the booster and sway bar. I offered to take it off myself and got the brake master cylinder thrown in with booster, sway bar and every thing in between including the booster check valve for $60.00. Got soaked and real wet and may have to have a few pieces of one inch crushed rock surgically removed from my knees but these parts look real good. I saw another set at another yard a few months back for more money but not in a well maintained old 2+2 as this one one was.The 2+2 parts are a little hard to find even in Oregon.I wanted the brake master cylinder because I have read other posts where fellows were mixing and matching the brake parts and were getting into rod length problems between the booster and master cylinder. I switched some brake parts on a 620 pick-up and got into some serious push rod length problems and found 3 different sizes in length before I lucked out and found the right one.

[Guest Anonymous]

My evil twin is up to no good so I decided to update the lack of progress on the project.I found another machinist since the first machinist that had the rams horn exhaust manifolds did not start work on them in over two months. He just had too much to do on other jobs. I found another fellow who is retired. During this time I came across a set of four 7 inch Bilstein aluminum coil over sleeves with adjusting nuts which the new machinist will attempt to bore out the inside to 2.04 inches or the same size as the outside diameter of the 280 Z strut tube housing. He will cut them down to 5 inches in height which the top of the aluninum sleeve will come to the top of the 2 inch sectioned strut tube housing I cut and welded.The Bilstein nuts fit the Ground Control aluminum coilover sleeves that I also have.The new machinist will also modify the center hub hole on the front wheels on my "replica Halibrand wheels" to fit the 280Z hub for my "replica Cobra Z". I got tired of cleaning the front suspension parts (cross member) and sprayed them down with Easy Off oven cleaner for the night. Tomorrow, I am taking all the Restomotive products(POR 15) I bought and introduce it all to the front crossmember and assorted useable parts from the old rust bucket Datsun Z and clean all of it with Marine Magic, derustify it with Metal-Ready and slap on some Por15 in black color with a sponge brush.I want to high light in POR 15 silver also. The local POR dealer cautioned about any moisture left on the metal before application of the POR 15 and suggested using a hair dryer to thoroughly dry the surface..I have to get this POR 15 on quick since there has been these recurring dreams about powdwer coating in near chrome and chartruse .Hopefully I will start getting pictures.

[Guest Anonymous]

I fabricated and mounted a strut tower brace out of thick wall pipe using flat metal pieces welded inside the flattened ends. I welded pieces of small angle iron to the strut tower with 5/16 ths attaching holes.I also connected the strut towers on the other side in the same manner to the fire wall and reinforced the engine compartment firewall with angle iron under the drip edge that I doubled over to weld to the angle iron re-enforcement. Since the project is a Tomahawk Z roadster, I can take these liberties with the fire wall because the Tomahawk body will somewhat cover this area and the angle iron will make good solid mounting points for hood pins. I am detailing the engine filling hole and removing brakets compartment and have removed the entire transmission mount housing with an air chisel with good success. I will probaly go to a junkyard in search of Toyota MR2 strut cartridges since my budget is now bankrupt. Nezzie 76 (Nate) should show up this weekend and we might work on his coilovers since my suspension progress is underfunded with little progress.

[Guest Anonymous]

Any opinions on a rather wacky idea? Supposin' a late model coilover mustang front suspension was hung on new upper strut mounts (with some of the nice camber plates they have available) and a new lower control arm and TC rod was built (using heim jointed ends).

 

Would that work, or would the geometry be to screwy or not worth the effort. The advantages, more availability of different struts with valving more appropriate for a heavier V8 conversion and of course 5 lug wheels and good sized brakes along with just using the ford power rack and pinion for nice easy steering. Opinions? Nutty or feesible? Or is the whole assembly to long to fit and the whole idea is not possible?

 

Regards,

 

Lone

[ZROSSA]

Lone,

 

As long as you get the angle of the stub axle close to stock and the track close anything is possable. You really would want to have it adjustable in all directions to set it up. As an example the front struts in my toyota are front wheel drive nissian sentra, Mazda rx7 hubs and brakes, escort rack and pinion on fabricated lower arms all with rose joints and camber plates.

 

I had a bit of help puttibg it all together but the angles are all right and it should work well.

 

BTW. Those of you looking at big brakes and 5 stud conversions shoul reallt look at the series 2 rx7 front hubs. Really nice unit. 11.5 vented disks and 4 pots and lite as.

 

Cheers,

 

Douglas

[Guest Anonymous]

Today, MSA sent the lower control arm 3 piece polyurethane bushing set and the steering rack bushings. I spent most of the morning without a hydraulic press removing the old control arm bushings. I learned from the first one and the second one was a lot easier. I used a drill press and drilled (approximately) 1/4 inch holes thru the rubber bushing. The drill bit also caught some of the metal sleeve of the bushing but not enough drill diameter to reach the inside of the actual control arm. The repeated drilling helped remove most of the bushing rubber and the center bolt sleeve was too hard forcing the drill bit around it chewing up the rubber. With the outside metal sleeve of the bushing remaining, I disconnected one end of a hacksaw blade from the hacksaw and inserted it into the sleeve and reconnected the blade to saw cut two slits 1/2 inch apart across the remaining metal sleeve of the old bushing. I was very careful not to saw into the control arm housing . When the 1/2 inch strip was almost cut thru I took a small chizel and began beating and braking the half inch cut strip into a curl. When the curl was about halfway thru and broken away from the rest of the remaining sleeve, it all came out. My first bushing was a very consuming ordeal and I want detail that misery. I cleaned up my endeavors and found the 3 piece bushing fit very well in the lower control arms. I had done the bumpsteer modifications by moving the lower control arm bolt hole up 15/16 ths of an inch on the front cross member (3/4 or 7/8 ths inch would have been fine but I made a mistake and I have a few spare crossmembers). I had welded some strap steel that was slightly wider than the original round washer reinforcing doubler plate, I compensated for this extra thickness by grinding down the bolt hole sleeve in the old rubber bushing to place the bushing and control arm inside the thicker insides of the strap reinforced front cross member. This proceedure did not work very good because my grinding and fileing was crooked. I ordered new bushings that appeared to be a great improvement over the stock bushing (and they are)The new 3 piece polyurethane bushings "almost" fit perfectly inside the close quarters of the reinforced front cross member and provide excellant stability to the lower control arms. I got out my "porta a power" and hooked up this jaw spreader and tweeked the the insides of the cross member on each bolt hole side to give a little more room for the new control arm bushings that took a little more room fully mounted in the control arms at their respective places than mounted by themselves in the crossmember. The new bushings installed in the lower control arms fit snugly in their new homes in the front cross member. I am still waiting for the VW (?) KYB GR2 stock # 364014 struts to fit in the 2 inch sectioned 280Z strut tubes to finish and mount the entire front suspension for coilover lower perch placement>

[Guest Anonymous]

The new KYB GR2 stock # 364014 strut cartridges fit the the 2 inch sectioned 280 Z strut tubes like a glove without any spacers with the gland nut fully tightened. My front 10 inch Carerra coilover springs are rated at 165 pounds and the GR2 gas charged struts should be plenty adequete for a street driven convertible tat should not tip the scales much over 2500 pounds with a SBC V8. Nate (Nezzie 76) will be out to help me Sunday to get the front suspension remounted to the chasiss and to also work on his coilover conversion without sectioning for his Vella Rossa project. I am also expecting a visit from a fellow if time permits in two weeks who has the only 300zx Tomahawk Z. It is apparently the stately silver one in the Rio Vista photos. I also plan the silver color for my Tomahawk. Nate will also help me post some pictures of my front suspension modifacations.

[Guest Anonymous]

Nezzie 76 came out today and we cut off the stock spring perches on his 280 front struts and installed the 10 inch Eibach coilover springs (supplied by Ross C.) and some gas charged struts.. We used a metal cutting bandsaw in the vertical position with a special made small work table to rough cut the perches off followed by a thin 4 inch disc on an air grinder to slit the old perch metal to the original weld bead. This excess perch metal was curled off with a hammer and chisel leaving only a crisp original weld bead to lay the new perch (large washer)on top of. It appears that he had some very worn out original hydraulic struts in his front tubes. The oil even smelled foreign. We did the stock spring perch removal on his rear struts last Sunday and found the Dan Betha (member) strut pin removal tool indispensable. He reports a 2 + inch drop in the rear end and we used the shorter 280 Z front top mounts from a parts car on the rear of his Vello Rossa to drop it even further(1 inch).He will wait a while to see if his ride height is satisfactory before I weld in the coilover perchs in their final resting place. There is a possibility that the coilver perches may be lowered further because his car like mine is about 300 pounds lighter than stock and needs a low stance that only coilovers can properly accomadate. Buttoned in and dropped my Tomahawk suspension down and found about a four inch drop with the 10 inch Carerra's and the two inch sectioned strut tubes. I got in the engine bay and tried to similate a SBC to little avail even though my heft justified it.I told some one when asked what the car would weigh with the V8, "2400 pounds and over 3000 pounds with me in it" Way too low but I have a full five inches to bring that adjusting nut up the threaded aluminum sleeve to gain more height and clearance, but man, does that car look bad down that low at the bottom of the coilover adjustment. I will pull out the strut tubes and finish welding the new spring perchs and sectioned area all back together since my 2 inch section cut of one inch on either side of the old spring perch weld bead was accurate.I will work later on the rear strut tube sectioning. I will be taking pictures and Nathan will help me post them.

[Guest Anonymous]

Tee ZEE Chronic-als on PITA MODS tu de front end