JustinOlson Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Could someone outline the primary differences between the turbo and non turbo 2JZ longblocks? I've found a 2JZGE swap with transmission for $800 locally, and am contemplating it. I've read that the GE head doesn't flow as well as the GTE. Can a GTE head bolt up to a GE shortblock? Are there any differences in the rods and crankshaft? Obvious differences: Intake Manifold Distributor vs COP Pistons Cylinder Head Casting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supraspaz Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 try browsing and searching on www.supraforums.com there is an endless supply of info in the NA-T section. i do believe there are some differences in the pistons and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 I've looked around supra forums, but they dont have a search over there any longer. Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 Found some interesting information spending more time on surpa forums. I think I might just give the NA-T setup a try. For the money it might be fun. Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supraspaz Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 NA-T seems to be the cheaper route to having fun. Unless you want rediculous power (over 500whp), i dont think you will have issues with the 2jzge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted July 7, 2007 Author Share Posted July 7, 2007 I'm going to look at the 2JZGE tomorrow. I'll probably buy it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oatmilk Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 I think you'll do well with a 2jzge. Plenty of people making lots of power on it. Check out ClubNA-t forums. There is a guy on there that sells a Chinese built complete turbo kit for like $1600.00 with many, many satisfied customers and provides what seems to be excellent customer service. Easy 400whp. One of the best bang for the bucks in the Supra world it seems. I myself am going 2jzgte but I if i was to do it again I would go 2jzge since I have modest whp goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 look up a guy named dave henry. he had the record for a mkiv na-t supra for a loooooooooooong timem running huge turbo and nitrous. i beleive his fasrwst time was a 9.49, that was with a th400 behind it and a stock shortblock. hes from fargo too!! nice guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Could someone outline the primary differences between the turbo and non turbo 2JZ longblocks? I've found a 2JZGE swap with transmission for $800 locally, and am contemplating it. I've read that the GE head doesn't flow as well as the GTE. Can a GTE head bolt up to a GE shortblock? Are there any differences in the rods and crankshaft? Obvious differences: Intake Manifold Distributor vs COP Pistons Cylinder Head Casting GTE head cant go on GE because the oil passage and water gallery are diffrent . Both the blocks are diffrent . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 There main differences between GE and GTE longblocks are: - heads - GE and GTE heads have the same combustion chamber capacity, but they have different intake and exhaust ports, and the GE intake cam drives the distributor, whereas the GTE has COP ignition (if I remember correctly, it takes the signal from the crank pulley sensor) - intake and exhaust manifolds - GE has a crappy intake with throttle placed sideways over the valve cover, not good for making power. GTE manifolds won't bolt up to the GE heads because of the different port locations (is that the right word?) and differently placed studs - headgaskets - GE has a thinner 0,2mm, while the GTE has a 1,6mm - pistons - GE has taller pistons that bump the CR slightly - oil squirters - GTE has them, but the GE doesn't - electronics and misc stuff - the injectors and AFMs are different, but I don't know the details, since I'm planning on throwing every possible restriction away Wedge, I've seen some photos of GTE head swaps on GE blocks, have you got any photos of GE and GTE block differences to prove that it is impossible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accurate Injection Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 We have a IS300 intake Manifold on it's way to see if our Plenum Design will adapt to the modified Manifold to RUN our ITB's. It could be as simple as welding a Weld Plate like this one to the stock 2JZGE runners only for 6 Cylinders to allow Extrudabody ITB's to be adapted to the stock Manifold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 There main differences between GE and GTE longblocks are: - heads - GE and GTE heads have the same combustion chamber capacity, but they have different intake and exhaust ports, and the GE intake cam drives the distributor, whereas the GTE has COP ignition (if I remember correctly, it takes the signal from the crank pulley sensor) - intake and exhaust manifolds - GE has a crappy intake with throttle placed sideways over the valve cover, not good for making power. GTE manifolds won't bolt up to the GE heads because of the different port locations (is that the right word?) and differently placed studs - headgaskets - GE has a thinner 0,2mm, while the GTE has a 1,6mm - pistons - GE has taller pistons that bump the CR slightly - oil squirters - GTE has them, but the GE doesn't - electronics and misc stuff - the injectors and AFMs are different, but I don't know the details, since I'm planning on throwing every possible restriction away Wedge, I've seen some photos of GTE head swaps on GE blocks, have you got any photos of GE and GTE block differences to prove that it is impossible? No i dont its what ive been told when i asked once in the past on another forum . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 look up a guy named dave henry. he had the record for a mkiv na-t supra for a loooooooooooong timem running huge turbo and nitrous. i beleive his fasrwst time was a 9.49, that was with a th400 behind it and a stock shortblock. hes from fargo too!! nice guy. Yup Dave Henry is a really cool guy. I believe his new build will be even faster. His friend's 2jz Probe aka "Probezilla" ran mid 8s on a junkyard GE motor. It had a stock exhaust cam and a 272 intake running a GT4294 I believe. Had a 1.3 60' lolz. Could someone outline the primary differences between the turbo and non turbo 2JZ longblocks? I've found a 2JZGE swap with transmission for $800 locally, and am contemplating it. I've read that the GE head doesn't flow as well as the GTE. Can a GTE head bolt up to a GE shortblock? Are there any differences in the rods and crankshaft? Obvious differences: Intake Manifold Distributor vs COP Pistons Cylinder Head Casting Besides the obvious, the turbos of course; there are few real differences between the motors themselves. Intake manifold on the GE, contrary to popular belief, flows MORE air than the GTE manifold does; AND its design is far superior if one were to want to run meth injection. Injectors are a high-imp 330cc top feed vs a low-imp w/ resistor box 550cc side feed. Stock GE rail has a larger ID than the GTE rail does and can flow fuel up to around 700hp (quoted to me by Boostlogic) Cam duration/lift/etc is slightly more aggressive on the GE motor I think and the GE head has been flowtested to flow BETTER than the GTE head. The primary problem with the GTE head being the exhaust ports are angled towards the center of their respective stock manifold. Stock mani is a 2 piece, each 3 exhaust ports point towards the exit of that manifold into the turbo. It most likely helps spool on stock twins but is a hindrance at higher flow levels. ALL JZ heads are completely interchangable physically, all the passages line up perfect... though electronics and other parts that bolt onto them (like manifolds) will be different. GE distributor has a cam position sensor in it and the GTE has a seperate cam angle sensor. GE has teeth on its exhaust cam, and cannot use aftermarket GTE camshafts for exhaust side; only on the intake side. Though now that has been remedied with the TTC cams that offer special exhaust-side gears if you're sticking with the distributor Distributor has been tested upwards of 800hp on stock plug wires, only needed a DLI of some sort (HKS and MSD 6A are pretty common) in that instance (I think it involved 28-30psi of boost, so they work rather well). OBD 1 GE motors run a Karmen Vortex airmetering ( I wont go into how that works, out of scope of this thread) and the GTEs run a Hotwire. VVTI GE motors got the weaker rods and a hotwire MAF. VVTI GTE motors retain the hotwire and the stronger rods.... do not get the GTE and GE motors confused here for VVTI. ODB1 GE and GTE have the same rods and crank. The block is the same too minus the oil supplies in the upper exhaust side and the oil drain in the upper oil pan. Though the boss is still there for the GE and can easily be drilled out (its aluminum) with a holesaw. No oil squirters for the GE. Several stock GE blocks running around with over 800hp... if someone blows one, they pick up a GTE shortblock for cheap. Compression on the OBD1 GE is 10:1 while the GTE is 8.5:1. A 2mm headgasket will net you ~8.57:1 compression level on the GE motor and using a stock GTE gasket (squishes to 1.3mm) will yield around 9.2:1. Common mods are ARP headstuds (or L19s if you're running big boost) and a thicker headgasket. It makes for a VERY stout setup, able to handle a LOT of power. There are 3 different cars that had the non-VVTI 2jz-ge here in the US: The 93-97 NA supra, the 92-97 GS300, and the 92-97 SC300. The 2nd gen GS300 got the VVTI GE, the 98-00 SC300 did, and so did the IS300. SC300 and Supra have the mid sump, GS have the front sump; and I cant remember what the IS had. Any other info you can find at http://www.clubna-t.com , I wrote the NA-T Bible Feel free to chat, we dont have a section for HybridZs, but I know several of you guys and also NA-Ters (as we call ourselves) are very interested in the motor itself and not necessarily what platform it involves. Later! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Nice first post Bean!!!! Hope to hear more from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share Posted July 18, 2007 Thanks Bean!! I ended up pickup up a 2JZGE from an SC300. I'm going to keep it internally stock, and run E85 with a big turbo. Likely a GT4202R. Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Nice! The gt42 truly is an awesome turbo. The 104mm wheel can make some ferocious power. Make sure you verify whatever manifold you use will clear the distributor if you intend to keep it. The gt42 is a large framed turbo and won't clear all that easy without the right manifold. FYI the hybrid gt4094r is worth checking out since its a gt42 in a gt40 body. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share Posted July 18, 2007 I'm going to custom fab a manifold to fit, so I'm not super worried about everything going together properly. I've read that if you have the room, the GT42 is definetly worth it as far as power is concerned. I may try a journal bearing gt4202 as they are $800 cheaper. Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 If you custom fab a manifold; make sure you create it with large runners with equal length if you can manage... none of that log manifold ♥♥♥♥. These turbos require some heavy duty flow. You mentioned an HKS/Greddy knockoff and that might work well; try and increase the runner ID if you can The more flow the bigger power! One of the many reasons fullrace manifolds are so awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Ya, fullRace makes some awesome manifolds but WOW they cost big bux! The key with these engines is airflow. On stock cams at about 700RWHP you'll start to run out of flow, swap in even mild HKS cams and watch power go WAY up - like 100RWHP up. IMO dump the OEM engine management and go AEM. Their setup is PnP with the OEM harness and there's lots of experience out there with this engine. lots of extra I/O too so you can get pretty trick with controlling things like boost and meth. Sadly it cannot control 16injectors so to run a true dual fuel system you have to get creative. If you go with someone else's system you can proably get some pretty good maps from the AEM guys. Oh as I recall DaveH simply ran 2 headgaskets for the longest time on his NA-T to get the compression down. You need not get expensive HKS gaskets etc. to get this done. The GE internals will take a great deal of abuse too - 500HP is nowhere near it's final capacity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted July 19, 2007 Author Share Posted July 19, 2007 Well, I wouldn't pay the big bucks for Full-Race gear when I can emulate the concepts and build it myself. Attached is a picture of my SolidWorks rendering. Regards, Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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