peej410 Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 well this is what im doing i bought a mig taught my self to weld really solid flat beads at a real high heat and prefabbed a front frame section out of 3x2 1/8 inch rectangular tube (overkill i know) im at the point where im joining it with the sheet metal on my Z prefab trial fit thats one of the pictures of it. i left the brackets for the subframe attached to the sheet metal for referance points for the framerails. i have a few questions, besides checking for level what measurements can i take to make sure this is straight (car was level before frame rails were removed) the frame is cut to exact lengths and square. i knew this isnt a job for novices but im more then willing to jump in over my head at any point for my car. what things have i overlooked and what points are good to measure from when doing this sort of thing. thanks for your time -Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 Hi Pete- this is Pete I wasn't allowed access to the link in your post. Make sure to get the rails square in the car in the horizontal plane as well. I did this with a plumb bob, taped marks on the floor, tape rule, etc. Make sure the mounting points for the T/C brackets are square with the rest of the car, as well as the holes in you rails for the engine crossmember. Make marks on the floor that are directly below the rear suspension points - the holes for the front diff cross member is a good place. Then measure diagonally (i.e., from the left rear point to the right front point) to the points up front that will position you frame rails. BTW, look at the structural mods page on my site for some ideas on subframe connectors. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peej410 Posted August 9, 2002 Author Share Posted August 9, 2002 your page is what inspired me to do this whole thing myself ive never done this stuff before , i wish i had someone that could come to my house and be like here do this this and this, its the only way i learn lol i do appreciate the help though. ill have to reread it a few times heres the link again http://www.geocities.com/peej410/MVC-008s.jpg -Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peej410 Posted October 1, 2002 Author Share Posted October 1, 2002 with your help pete i got the framerails in the engine bay http://www.geocities.com/peej410/MVC-009S.JPG thats the finished pic. its time for me to do the subframe connectors and i have a question. my floors were repaired and they werent repaired correctly, thus my floors arent flat at their lowest part. aside from cutting a 2inch wide strip down each floor to mount the subframe connectors, what are my options? also is the use of round tube plausible? i could get round tube bent to the contour of the floors and mount it underneath, let me know what you think. this is the last of the framework that i have to do. so far i welded that frame into the engine bay and ive only been welding for a few months, my boss (used to weld by trade) was very impressed with the beads i layed out. anyways any info is much appreciated - Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peej410 Posted October 1, 2002 Author Share Posted October 1, 2002 the stupid link doesnt work again damn geocities. if you cutnpaste the url it should work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Cut and paste did work for me this morning and it looks really nice, you did a nice job Pete! I would imagine that sloting the area for the frame rail connectors would work fine, but we'll let Mr. Paraska answer that. Good job! Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peej410 Posted October 1, 2002 Author Share Posted October 1, 2002 Originally posted by LoneInAZ:Cut and paste did work for me this morning and it looks really nice, you did a nice job Pete! I would imagine that sloting the area for the frame rail connectors would work fine, but we'll let Mr. Paraska answer that. Good job! Regards, Lone thank you that means alot coming from ya, its my first real car build up. my father isnt into cars at all so ive had to kinda figure everything out for myself, you guys help alot with that , i figured buying the tools (mig, air tools...) and learning how to do things would be more beneficial then having someone do it for me. Originally posted by ZROSSA:I wouldnt be so eager to slot the floor. Square tube can be bent as well. This might be easier. You can also slot the tube and re weld it. I dont know for sure but I get the feeling that if you cut into that floor and start to weld it its going to move around and warp all over the place. Douglas I was also concerned about warping the floors, i have tendancy to over-do everything, rather then trying to restrain myself which distracts me i try and figure out a method that will benefit from a little extra. IE: although i know going with a thicker steel tubing (1/8") will just add unnecesary weight i decided to use the 1/8 anyways which cant hurt, only slow me down. anyways enough crap. i think i might get one of those hydraulic benders. -pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-tom Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Do you want to come over and fix my 71 frame rails? Please!! That looks very very nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony240ZT Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 That had to be tough welding the rails onto the sheet metal. When I was replacing some of the metal in the floor boards of my car I kept burning through, then having to go back and fill in. What a pain. Looks like you must have gotten a hang of it. The driver's side looks expecially well. What engine are you putting in there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMS Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Originally posted by peej410:the stupid link doesnt work again damn geocities. if you cutnpaste the url it should work ROFLOL!!! I viewed the picture in question, and I was appreciating your work when my eye was drawn to the unusual item on the left side of the engine bay. I was trying to figure out what it was.. Wierd shaped brake presure distributor? No, and it's in the wrong place for the trouble light... DUH! Finally I realized that it's a ball peen hammer hanging from the fuel filter bracket! Do you think I should get new glasses, or get my medication adjusted? Sometimes I wonder about myself. Your welding job looks great! I wish my welds turned out as pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Hmmm. Mr. Paraska, huh. O.k. Lone, I feel old now . Pete- looks good! I had no teachers for this stuff either. My dad just looked at me funny when I started cutting up the car and welding on it! I think it's easier to just use rectangular tubing, cut a wedge out, and weld it back together. Then put doubler plates over the welds, if you are worried. I did the slot in the floor as shown on my site for the drivers side. Lots of work. On the passenger side, I cut out the once replaced floors, and just put the subframe connector where I wanted it, then made up pieces of floor to go from the connector to the tunnel and the connector to the inner rocker panel, replacing all of the floor from the firewall back to behind the seat. Just make sure you hold the car up in several places in front of and behind the floor area you cut out. I used 8 jack stands, 4 in front of the firewall, 4 behind the seat area. I shimmed them all up so the car's weight was somewhat evenly distributed on them. Well, that was a good plan, but the body shop that subsequently put rocker panels and 1/4s on the car had to tie the car down and bend it into shape to get everything to line up! Not sure if it was me doing the frame work, or the wreck the car was in before I even got it (rear of the car got smacked good). Anyway, it's good to see a novice like I was just jump in and go for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peej410 Posted October 2, 2002 Author Share Posted October 2, 2002 wow guys thanks for the praise, all my buddies rag on me saying that im never gonna get the car done and that its a rat box. i think itll be the beefiest ratbox ill ever drive. now i just need to replace all the fuel and brake lines the front calipers with the toyota 4x4 conversion, need to find a pair of rear struts somewhere in the state then i can put the car back on the ground. put the motor and tranny back in till i get it through inspection then buy my 383 and have a field day. If anyone in new england needs Z parts i have tons. if you want custom work done let me know. i have a sand blaster and i have access to a powder coating oven big enough for a 19inch wheel and id be glad to help u guys out -pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 _PJ sounds like you getting the fundamental skills down in becoming a first class renagade Z hybrider not afraid to tear into anything metallic or plastic no matter how long it takes. Your friends will be coming around wanting you to fabricate and fix things for them in a short time. You are not using a pizza oven in the after hours to powder coat ... ARE YOU ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZROSSA Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 I wouldnt be so eager to slot the floor. Square tube can be bent as well. This might be easier. You can also slot the tube and re weld it. I dont know for sure but I get the feeling that if you cut into that floor and start to weld it its going to move around and warp all over the place. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peej410 Posted October 2, 2002 Author Share Posted October 2, 2002 tomahawk its not every day that someone actually realizes that my screen name is PJ haha people usually call me pee ? but anyways, nope its a legit powder coating over. his father got it from his work. its an older model they didnt need anymore. so far i havent powder coated anything just sanded primed and painted because i know this wont be the last time im working with the suspension on the thing. next time around im going to have it all prefessionally sandblasted so that i can powder coat it but thats when i can afford to upgrade to the coilovers and crap. by then ill be good enough at metal work to make my own suspension parts. if anyone knows of a 383 or a t-5 or both with everything in between let me know. even if it needs a rebuild a 350 could work too. thanks guys - pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peej410 Posted October 10, 2002 Author Share Posted October 10, 2002 i thought id update you guys on my quest to replace floors and framerails in my Z. Last night i cut out my drivers side floor in one big piece. I cut and welded up a framerail (front to rear frametie) in place so that the body wouldnt want to stretch at all. now i need to bend the sheet metal to the shape of my floors. I have two questions. #1 whats the best way to bend the pieces of sheet metal (18ga) to the shape i need? should i measure mark and use a brake (my friends dad has one bout 3 miles from my house) or should i make a jig out of 2x4s almost like a saw horse and a mallet to bend the steal into shape? #2 when i cut the floor out i noticed that when my Z was molested by its previous owner. he only capped over the rusted parts of what were the inner rockers and thus they have rusted away. should i replace them with a tube similar to the one i used for my frame ties? should i just use sheetmetal (without the stamping/holes it might not be rigid enough) im truely baffled as to what i should do about it. if youve got any info youd like to share id appreciate it much have a good day - Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 PeeJ try your saw horse/mallet with some scrap metal. Very hard to get a long piece bent straight by hand. You could use two (2) straight edges from 3/16 inch by 2 inch flat bar in an appropriate length clamped together with the sheet metal sandwiched between. You can bend with a big handled crescent wrench with the jaws locked to the flat bars aided by a mallet persuader. Bend in increments up and down the flat bar until the desired bend is fully accomplished. There is a current post(Interesting Braces) today about the side rail replacement with pictures. You have went this far...replace all the cancer!Use the sheet metal brake if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 To fold sheet metal without a brake is a real pain. I have a 4 foot by 10 foot work bench the top is 3/4" plywood and a 1/4" masonite on top. I lay the sheet metal on the table and "C" clamp a heavy piece of steel (I actually use a 5" C channel 5 foot long, left over from a homemade Jeep bumper) at the edge of the table, with the sheet metal in between, and fold the metal down on the edge of the table. The 18 or 16 Guage metal can be folded by hand, just by pushing it. I usually leave some extra metal on both sides of the fold and trim after the bend is made. This gives me more stock to push on. Practice! Do not attempt this on your floor pan, first. I am near a Metal Supermarket, so fresh metal is easy and cheap to come buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peej410 Posted October 11, 2002 Author Share Posted October 11, 2002 awesome suggestions im excited now heh, ive got all this wood that i was going to use to build a bench before i got my sawzall and mig (after that any suggestion of space for a bench went to hell)anyways i will try both those methods. im lucky that the guy that i buy my metal from is a nice guy he figured out how to get both floor pans out of one 4x8 piece in order to save me lots of money hes really cool. i got the whole sheet for 48 i think and he cut it into a bunch of pieces perfect to make whatever i want with and have plenty of extra for my floors. im heading home from the dorm soon to floor my Z wish me luck - pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 PeeJ..With a little luck and lot of patience you will get it all tied together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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