Guest Anonymous Posted April 23, 2001 Share Posted April 23, 2001 When I last posted to this topic it was because I muched a rear Nissan Driveshaft U-Joint. Last night I ate the driver's side inner half shaft U-Joint. This was a Brute Force U-Joint. I would be mad, but too much power always makes me giddy!!! I shifted 1-2 at 5500, smacked the shifter forward and POW!!! Spun that thing clean out. The bad part was that I didn't have my cell phone with me, and had to walk 1.5 miles to the pay phone. It was cold last night. Dark too. Now I have to push it up the driveway and get it into the garage. The lesson learned is that if something is vibrating in the back (feel it in your butt), something is on it's way out. Ct.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted April 23, 2001 Share Posted April 23, 2001 Feel your pain. Stock-sized driveshaft u-joints are out of the question and I firmly believe that an R-200 with CVs and 280Z stub axle is as good as it gets (Nissan IRS, i.e.) until the R-230 becomes a practical swap. Unfortunately, the available ratios rule this out as an option for me unless someone knows of an R-230 with a ratio of 3.36 or lower (numerically). My broken CV was also a drivers side inner. Is this a coincidence or does someone have an explanation why we always seem to break the rear driveshaft u-joint and the drivers side inner axle joint? I was about to order a "rebuilt" CV and got some nasty feedback from a friend who worked as a Nissan wrench. Seems the main problem with the CVs are the bearing cages go bad and the rebuilds use cages from Taiwan/Mexico, et al, that are made of inferior metals. This was confirmed in confidence from a racer who works at one of the local CV shops. Seems the shops are not concerned because they feel it will hold up in stock applications and they do not warrantee their work if the car is raced. Bottom line is, if you race, it's a toss up between a "rebuilt" and a used factory original. I stuck another used factory original in until I can decide what the next move will be. I decided to try and understand what happened to mine, so I cut the clamp and two pieces were being held together by the boot and clamp . As I pulled off the inner joint, I expected to see a broken shaft with jagged edges but it did not look that way. Anyone know enough about CVs to explain that? The inner joint was full of lube and I did not feel like cleaning it out to see better. A halfshaft with good solid joints is a strong unit. A CV is stronger still, but what about us nuts that appear to be pushing those parts way beyond their limits? And, just what is the limit? I went to prestage.com and used their formulas to determine my torque. I used 400RWHP @ 4250RPM and it said approx 495lb/ft . With a t-brake and sticky tires, is that too much for the stock IRS? Wonder if my breakage was just a fluke or is this a pattern I should expect? How much are NISMO axles? Anyone had custom "strong" axles made from scatch? How much? I just cannot get myself to spring for $1000s for a rear-end or even lots of $100s for NISMO or custom axles yet the most fun I have is launching this puppy. Damn, I rambled again. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ [This message has been edited by Scottie-GNZ (edited April 23, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted April 23, 2001 Share Posted April 23, 2001 Scottie, I love it when people ramble if it's a good bunch of discussion in there! CV stuff. Did you talk to Mardi at Raxles.com? He's pretty conscientious - he's helping Ford out with the problems they're having with the halfshafts in the Mustang IRS snapping. I'd bet he'd be happy to discuss the type and quality of bearings and cages that he can source. On your CV failure: I'd think that the "stick" (shaft itself) would live but either the bearing or the tripod that connects the 3 bearings to the stick broke. ------------------ Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project pparaska@home.com Pete's V8 Datsun 240Z Pages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 23, 2001 Share Posted April 23, 2001 Well now that I have it in the garage and up on the lift, I can see what really happened. It appears that the outside one let go, and what I saw from looking at it last night is that the shaft came out of the differential. That's why it didn't whip around too much. The splines look OK from what I could see at first glance. What should I look out for? I don't have the fundage to go CV joints at this time (unless someone wants to buy a couple of ZX's.) Thanks Ct.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 23, 2001 Share Posted April 23, 2001 Just a question on why its the drivers side breaking. When the Z squats on a hard launch does it also squat left to right? Perhaps this contributes to the strain on one side or the other. Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted April 23, 2001 Share Posted April 23, 2001 Pete, thanks for the reference. Just got off the phone with him and he is a real nice guy and very insightful. Based on what the shaft looked like when I pulled it out, he said it broke just before the splines, exactly where the stub axles usualy break. I was expecting to see jagged edges and he said that is exactly how they break. As much as he would like to help me, he cannot. There is no demand for ZXT CVs and so it would have to be a one-off, read EXPENSIVE and he is too swamped with the money-makers (my words), Hondas and Cobras. It would be a while before he could get to it and was not prepared to price it now. I joked about stocking up on used axles and he agreed. He thought it unusual that the drivers side went asit is usually the pass side that goes. I happen to have 2 spare pass CVs . One other thing the stressed. Wheel hop will kill axles. The Hondas and Cobras drag racing with their 45 and less profile tires are going to make him a rich man. ChrisT, what drivetrain are you using? ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 23, 2001 Share Posted April 23, 2001 I am using an R200 3.54. I have brute force U-Joints on both sides - inner and outer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 23, 2001 Share Posted April 23, 2001 Pete, Mine is a mild V8. Maybe not as mild as I thought though! Are the ratio's on the 230s too high? 4.00+ or are they in the 3.7+ range? I have to go order a seal for the shaft. Question, There is a clip on the axle stub coming out of the differential, right? I am missing that. I don't see it listed in my catalogs. Any issue running without it, or should I go the the hardware store and see what I can drum up? Ct.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 Chris, I think the lowest ratio in the R230 is a 3.9 (Q45?). You can get the C-clip from Nissan. But you need to disassemble the diff and carrier to put it in. The question I have is - where is the one that's supposed to be in there. Maybe I've got this wrong, and it's still in the case/carrier, where it's supposed to be and you were looking for it on the axle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 Good question Lone. I don't think it squats harder on one side than the other. I really don't remember either way though. I was kind of surprised that it was the outer one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 Scottie, yeah, Mardi is a nice guy and will talk your ear off! BTW, Jim Biondo broke a 240Z stub axle by, you guessed it, wheel hop at take off. He admits he should have stepped out of the gas but was too late. Sure does seem like we need to find a good way to do the R230 swap with a not-out-of-this-world CV shaft solution. Mardi said he could have a bunch (60) custom CV shaft "sticks" made as a minimum, when I talked to him about shorter 280ZXT CV shafts. I guess if we could sell 30 sets (or get someone like MSA or Mike Gibson to buy them) we could design a shaft that used the R230 inner joint and the 280ZXT outer joint, with a shaft length that didn't require disassembling the suspension to get them in/out. I doubt that this solution would be outrageous in price, per set, and we'd be saving money using the R230. Then again, you'd have that gear ratio issue to deal with. I wonder if the outer 280ZXT joint is getting rare. Then again, since we need to adapt the 280Z stub axle and companion flange to the 280ZXT outer flange bolt pattern, maybe another easier solution exists in using the R230 (Z32 TT) CV joint and making an adapter to go from that to the 280Z companion flange. Hmm. That idea of just putting a custom hub carrier in for the Z32 stub axle is looking better all the time - especially if the Z32 TT CV shafts could be used straight up. Oh well, enough rambling. Sometimes I'm glad I have a mild V8 . ------------------ Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project pparaska@home.com Pete's V8 Datsun 240Z Pages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 The Ratio in my r230 is 3.54. It is out of a 90 Q45, they may have changed in later years???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 Cool, I was too lazy (it was 2am) to look in the old posts. I didn't realize that a 3.545:1 ratio was available in those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 You guys must not sleep much. I was looking for it on the axle. Sounds like it's inside on the sleeve? Cool. That takes care of that. Now I just have to wait for that seal. Once that comes in I should be back on the road. I don't know if everyone has a Checker/Schuks/Kragen auto parts store, but their logistics system is wonderful. You can get a part in a day in most cases. Thanks for the wisdom. Ct.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 John, good to hear from you. All, John has a very healthy GNZ, not stock like mine, that has already gone 131+mph in the traps. He is also building a Fiero/GN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 John, Do you remember what you spent on the U-Joints from Nissan? Ct.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 Originally posted by Scottie-GNZ:[QB]Feel your pain. Scottie I'v put big 11'ford drums on the back of my 240 with 3/4' wheel cylinders so I could spool the turbo. The frist thing was the 240 stuby shaft broke then went to the 280 that was a littel bigger then the half shafts u-joints broke so I went to brut force solid they broke at lower stall speed (cheep junk) now I am using nissan race u- joints,the greese fitings are on the end not in the center (a week part) a littel spendy but I seem get away at stalling the car at 3200 2psi of boost, I don't want to go any higher I mite brake somthing else. 60 foots are 1.58 with a TE62 turbo and big intercooler with 3' inlet and outlet so I have some turbo lag. Has any one else tryed these race joints? [ April 24, 2001: Message edited by: John Lindsay ] [ April 24, 2001: Message edited by: John Lindsay ] [ April 24, 2001: Message edited by: John Lindsay ] [ April 24, 2001: Message edited by: John Lindsay ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 26, 2001 Share Posted April 26, 2001 I replaced the U-Joint today, and it appears that I bent the yoke as well. I was looking for a reason to start parting out the 81 ZX. I guess I have it now. I am going to pull the axle off of it. Nothing but fun! Ct.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 26, 2001 Share Posted April 26, 2001 quote: Originally posted by ChrisT: I replaced the U-Joint today, and it appears that I bent the yoke as well. I was looking for a reason to start parting out the 81 ZX. I guess I have it now. I am going to pull the axle off of it. Nothing but fun! Ct.. I'm trying to find out I think it was $70 each. But the dealer can't tell me what aplaction it is with the part number that I have on the old box #37126-C9425. The dealer did say it is a good number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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