Scottie-GNZ Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 I am not prepared to make the leap to a solid axle just yet, but I do have access to a Ford 8.8, with a 3.23(?) LSD and disc brakes. What makes this so tempting is that it would involve a deal where I would have little or no out-of-pocket expense to get it. This is so ideal and tempting, but I have 2 questions: 1. For those who have a solid axle, can you PLEASE give me an estimate (in private if you want) of what it cost to have the axle narrowed and installed in the Z. 2. To help pay for this, I would like to sell my complete rear suspension. It is obviously a proven setup but I wonder if there is any interest from folks to buy this and what do you think it is worth? Here is a component list: - 71 strut - JTR spring perch mod. Perch raised with cut-down 280ZX 2+2 spring. Allows up to 5.5" BS with tires up to 25.75" tall - Tokico Illuminas - Professionally welded R-200 with 3.54 - LSD finned cover with modified bracket for clearance - Scottie's "homemade" diff tie-down - Poly bushings with moustache bar - 280ZXT CVs with CV adaptor - 2 spare pass-side CVs - 280Z stub axles, with new bearings - 82-83 280ZX rear brakes with Maxima brackets and new KVR pads - Competition studs - Brand new 3" od driveshaft for GM trans/R-200 diff - I would also have to sell my wheels, 4 Welds Draglites with 4.5" BS. Damn, did not realize what I had until I made this list . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Dreamer Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 Hey Scottie, I lucked into(for free)a Dana 44 out of a old mail jeep. It is 51" hub to hub and has a posi with 3.73 gears. Billet axles and disc brakes are available in kit form for this rear end from 4X4 suppliers. I have been told that properly setup a Dana 44 can handle between 600-700 HP. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted May 11, 2001 Author Share Posted May 11, 2001 How does 51" relate to the Z? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Dreamer Posted May 12, 2001 Share Posted May 12, 2001 Scottie, I was trying to say that it is 51 inches WIDEfrom hub to hub. And it is far stronger in its stock condition than any R200 period. Just thought you might be interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted May 12, 2001 Share Posted May 12, 2001 Scottie, I didn't have a dif to start with so the cost included buying my 12 bolt. I had it shortened, rebuilt the posi unit, installed 3:73 gears, bought Moser axles, and installed '79 TA disc brakes. This costed $1500 (not cheap!)The suspension is the Jeg's S/S bars (street/strip suspension), panhard bar, and coilovers. That cost around $500. The narrowed frame, and tubs I did my self, materials cost, $20 maybe. You could probably find someone local to shorten the housing, but I would buy some custom axles from Moser or someone. You can shorten the stock axles, but they won't be very strong. Also on a Ford 8.8, it uses C clips to hold the axles in. You maybe alright since the Z dosn't wieght that much, but if you want more strength, use C clip eliminator kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted May 12, 2001 Author Share Posted May 12, 2001 So sorry, I am the one to be apologizing. What I meant to say was how does 51" hub-hub compare with the dimensions of a 240Z. Does that imply that the 51" unit does not require resizing and all that is needed is are wheels with the required offset and the requisite installation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted May 12, 2001 Share Posted May 12, 2001 51" will require positive offset (even for stock sized tires) because I think my Z has around 57" hub to hub span (close guess). I'll bet it is set up for leaf springs too. Weld the perches, and brackets for links, etc. Lot's of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted May 13, 2001 Share Posted May 13, 2001 I wasn't aware that any CJ type jeeps were ever equipped with D44s - most have D30s. Wagoneers and the old Grand Cherokees had D44s that were narrower than the typical D44 - 55 inches from the inside of each hub. My Z is 55 inches from wheel mounting surface. You should pick up a street rod magazine if you are considering a live axle. There are plenty of complete kits available - $$$ though. Any width and gear ratio, typically using a Ford 9inch and a 5 link with weld on mounting brackets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted May 13, 2001 Share Posted May 13, 2001 Curie Enterprises has been doing shortend 9" Ford rear ends for decades (it seems). Try http://www.curieenterprises.com/ some time and take a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Dreamer Posted May 13, 2001 Share Posted May 13, 2001 Scottie, yes the Dana 44 is narrower than a Z IRS by about six inches. This rear end can be found in the "old" mail carrier jeeps that were leaf spring. But since you're a drag racer, going to a 4-link would be relatively easy using a kit from a company like Alston's Chassisworks here in Sacramento(four miles from my house).Check them out at www.cachassisworks.com My plan is to use the existing strut/spring to tower assembly and fab a bracket for them to the axle housing and then use two upper control arms and and two lower control arms. This setup should retain good road handling characteristics, I hope. Mark [ May 13, 2001: Message edited by: Z-Dreamer ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted May 14, 2001 Share Posted May 14, 2001 Hrm, shortening the 8.8 shouldn't be too hard and it should take the power if properly setup. I'd want to know what the rear came out of though to find out what brakes those are from. The ratio you've got is 3.27 and was found in automatic equipped V8 Mustangs from 87 to at least 93. After 93 I'm not sure what they were found in. C-clip elimintators are a must, if nothing the track officials should require them for the times you're running. Rebuild the stock LSD for now, use a stud girdlecover, and aftermarket axles. If you can get the rear for free it's worth considering IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted May 14, 2001 Author Share Posted May 14, 2001 Whether you use a 51" Dana44 or any other solid rear-end, all the mount pipes have to be removed and your new suspension welded on. I like the idea of using the Z strut and finding a way to attach to the solid rear. It seems on paper that even though the Dana44 would not have to be shortened, the Ford 8.8 is still the better way to go. Being 6" narrower than a Z, I would imagine you need decent sized spacers. Nothing wrong there. However, if you have to buy axles for the Dana44, that negates the cost of the axles for the Ford and the spacers negate the cost of narrowed the Ford rear-end. Other advantages that the Ford offers (for me, i.e.,) is that it comes with the ratios I need, a 3.08 or a 3.27 and the Ford, on paper, appears beefier. Dana44 - 8.5" ring gear, 1.376/26-spline pinion stem. Ford - 8.8" ring gear, 1.626/30-spline pinion stem. I would say if the initial cost of the rear-end is the same, the cost of the modifications appear to be equal with the edge, IMO, going to the Ford. You do not have to deal with spacers or finding wheels with radical positive offsets. With the Ford, you can strike up a deal for a pair of wheels with any offset, 300ZXTT, Cobra, etc and then have the rear-end narrowed to fit the wheels. Remember I need a ratio higher that 3.36 and the Corvette seems to be the only option and until I understand it better, it seems more complex and costly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted May 14, 2001 Share Posted May 14, 2001 How wide is the Mustang rear ???? Thinking out loud.... If it is less than about 60" you may be able to make it work. To add to the idea of using the Z stut mounts why not make it a 3 link. Make some lower mts and lower control arms like the mustang has and then use a torque arm in the middle and a panhard bar. The Q45 has a nice strut with a shock type lower mount. If you ran a t5 or t56 the torque arm would be easy. If you are looking into this why not use a lincon versalis rear end if I remember correctly they are about 59 or 60" ( ford 9" with disc's) even if you have to buy one it might be cheeper than the 8.8 as you won't have to buy axels or C clip eliminators... just food for thought..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted May 14, 2001 Author Share Posted May 14, 2001 God, I love this forum! The thought of anything that smacks of a Lincoln being only 2-3" wider than the Z is unfathomable . On a serious note, is it LSD and what is the ratio? I am sure BLKMGK can give us the hub-hub measurement on a Moosetang GT 8.8. I wonder if the Ford 8.8 with combined with the Cobra 5.9" BS wheels.... Naw, that would be too good to be true! BLKMGK, where are ya. [ May 14, 2001: Message edited by: Scottie-GNZ ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Dreamer Posted May 14, 2001 Share Posted May 14, 2001 The stock axles are made by Spicer which should be strong enough for most applications. Lug spacing is 5 on 5 1/2 which is old Ford/Dodge Truck I believe. Anyway there is plenty of room to drill and tap whatever wheel spacing you prefer. I got this rear end for free, so I would consider it a viable alternative cost wise. Isn't the Ford LSD carriage that holds the LSD too wide and heavy for the Z? Will the half shafts hold up? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 Lincon Versilas are the same with as a 67-68 mustang. Infact that is where alot of those guys get there 9" 's from. If I remember correctly it is 59" flange to flange.... With the late model offset wheels most of them need 1.5" to 3" per side to fit..so take the 55"? for the stock z and add 3 to 6" and where are you.....Now I may be off on the width but it was the concept I was trying to sell..... What is the flange to flange with on the 8.8 you have???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted May 15, 2001 Author Share Posted May 15, 2001 I do not have the Ford 8.8 yet but if the Mustang and Versaille are the same at about 59" and the Z is 57", I really do not believe it has to be narrowed. I have 15x8s with a 4.5" BS so if the Ford was 2" wider, would'nt an 8" wheel with a 5.5" BS on the 59" rear end up the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 Umm, Versaille rears have been sought after for YEARS by Mustang guys - don't get too excited about them until you've got one in front of you and an unsuspecting yard owner who doesn't know what they're worth (ahem). Oh, and it's an LSD I think but probably NOT a locker which is good. The brakes on those cars are a little funky I seem to recall and there were some other oddities too. It's touted as a "bolt-in" fo rolder Mustangs but at least one mag I read mentioned some weirdness. I can indeed provide the width on the 8.8 rear in my LX, just not tonight Oh, and th e8.8 were VERY common with 2.73 gears. If 3.08 or 3.27 is what you're after I'm certain I can help you out on a used set of gears. An advantage to the 9inch is that the carrier can be setup off the car, the 8.8 requires on th ecar setup since the pumpkin doesn't come off. I think the solid 8.8 is still your best bet, I don't believe you need the added weight of a 9inch or the cost. You might want to hunt down a good chassis shop though and get their opinions first before commiting ANY money - you might be surpised. A shop I know narrows 9inch rears fairly cheaply and gets cores out of most anything that has them in the yards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 Yeah what he said. The Versailles rear ends are sought by mustang, falcon and maverick (and is a bolt in pretty much for V8 pinto swaps as well.) owners as a bolt in disk brake option. Possibly a more easily obtained diff. would probably be a Granada/Monark rear end with drum brakes. Its the same as the Versailles (9") but with drums. (The Versailles was just a dolled up Granada, more leather, for the blue hair set..). Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest needwaymorespeed Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 The versaille rear ends disc brakes and brackets are very heavy and the calipers require very high psi pressures to operate correctly,these cars had hydroboost systems on them-where the brakes are boosted from a pump on the engine instead of a vacume brake booster- these pups create very hogh psi around 2500. They measure 57.5 from flange to flange As mention previously some granadas did come with the 9inch ford and have drum brakes on them (IMHO)a better way to go,not all of these cars have 9 inches have to watch for the 5 lugs, one othe little known fact on these rears is that they have the large 3 inch axle tubes same size as the trucks and full size lincolns,biggest tube that ford ever offered. Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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