AkumaNoZeta Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 I guess I just like to think about things or something. I've been thinking about the 2G Talons and Eclipses with AWD and not to mention the Evo and just loving the idea of AWD. So I decided to try to think about ways to make the beautiful Z into an AWD. My first thought was the drivetrain of a GTR, but appearently it's been done (would love more info and photos on that car by the way). My next idea involved the SR20 because I just plain love the mid-engine effect and the engine itself, I was thinking maybe rigging up the transfer case of a 4X4 truck or something to the output shaft of the 5spd transmission and just get another differential fabbed up from and some custom length driveshafts of course. What I didn't like about that was the differential would have to be offset to one side or the other causing torque steer in the front. The next idea I had was swapping the entire drivetrain and/or supsension from a DSM (Evo, GSX, TSI AWD, etc.) but I'm not sure if the Z's chassis is wide enough for the eninge and transaxle assembly. The thing I didn't like about that was the the engine is pretty much all hanging out in front which is the opposite of the mid-engine layout I love so dearly. What does everybody else think? This is just for conversion, I'm not planning this...unless I get another Z where I can chop and weld at freely and make into an all-out racer, but I doubt it. lol. Any other idears? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 4wd dune buggies have been made with 1200cc toyota FWD east-west engines and auto boxes by dropping them into a tube frame pointing north-south and running driveshafts to front and rear diffs. maybe grab a FWD Primera front clip with SR20DE and T it then drop that in with the FWD wheel hubs hooked up to a diff? you'd basicly end up with a AWD car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkumaNoZeta Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 Now that's something I would never have thought about, that's genius. So pretty much all they do is replace the half-shafts from the transaxle and fit driveshafts to them which go to front and rear diffs? Probably wouldn't need a driveshaft to go to the front differential because it's so close to each other? Just weld a plat to the end to bolt it to the flange, right? I think that would work if you use IRS type diffs, maybe put a U-joint in there to give it a little wiggle room. If you use a solid axle (but who wants that anyways? lol) that wouldn't work would it? Probably need to use CV joints because the up-and-down motion would be too much just for U-joints, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkumaNoZeta Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 Wait...if you mount an engine and transaxle assembly longitudilly (I'm a bad speller) then what would you do about the gear ratios? The output of the transaxle will already have the final drive in it and then it would go through another reduction at the differentials making the thing REDICUOUSLY high geared, is there a way to make the differentials a 1:1 ratio instead of 3.55:1 or whatever they is? Maybe you have to do something to the final drive of the transaxle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 these were just little wee light things like long nose go-carts with balloon tyres, so they often used the cv joints that went to the front wheels of the corolla donor car, chop the front shaft down to about 2" between the rubber boots over the joints on the front, and cut the other and weld in a long enough shaft to reach the rear diff into the middle. If you have a R180 rear diff, you ought to be able to pick up another with the same ratio and side shafts cheap from someone swapping in a R200 with later model CVs into their car. Put that up front and use the side shaft from the FWD to the diff driveshaft flange, and on the other end, bolt up the driveshaft to the rear diff. two R180s ought to manage the power it takes one R200 to tame and if the concept works, THEN you can get a pair of more desirable and therefore expensive R200's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Snap! you posted at the same time.. I'm not sure what they did with the final drives, I know the concept works, but haven't actually done it myself. The one I have driven around the dunes was pretty nifty tho. edit: Ok, I think I may have an idea of how the diffs were set up remove the carrier with the ring gear, spider gears and shaft gears, and replace that with a double ended female socketed splined shaft with a ring gear on it. pull the shaft from the front and replace with a longer one that reaches the smaller ring gear. basicly you now have a welded diff with a far closer ratio to 1:1 than you had before. does this make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Done and discussed. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=117760 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Done and discussed. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=117760 see his first post "My first thought was the drivetrain of a GTR, but appearently it's been done (would love more info and photos on that car by the way)" that thread is about the GTR conversion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkumaNoZeta Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 This has gotten very interesting to me. Another thing that crossed my mind with that is the weight would be biased to the left side because of how they assembly is. If you try to center it then that would make an extreme angle for the CV shafts to make for the front diff. Then again let it be biased to the left and offset that with putting the battery in the back on the right and move the fuel cell over the right as well. I think that set-up would be best on a right-hand drive vehicle because the assembly would probably have to be pushed back a bit in order to get the differential and wheel hubs lined up properly, not to mention if it's right hand drive you won't have to worry about the steering shaft being a big concern. I like it when my brain works XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 see his first post "My first thought was the drivetrain of a GTR, but appearently it's been done (would love more info and photos on that car by the way)" that thread is about the GTR conversion... Well just because he knew of a awd gtr s30 doesnt mean he hasnt seen that thread and its of no benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkumaNoZeta Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 I didn't see that exact thread, but I saw a similar one when I did the search. That link did help because I saw the photo of that magazine page in yahoo images but they weren't near as big or as easy to see so now I have that image saved on my computer. Thank you for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 yah, sorry if I was a bit abrupt, Mea Culpa I was still busy thinking about what I could remember about the dune buggies and how the diff probs may have been solved there. It helped his "more pics and info" request tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 No problem, there is also a few threads about a 260 2+2 awd, with a nascar engine. Its a hill climb car and it pretty sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 umm... instead of offseting the motor to one side for a centered diff set, or centering the motor and causing an angle to the front centred diff from the offset output from the gearbox, surely fabbing up mounts to have the motor on a lean over top of the gearbox would be simpler? you'll need custom mounts anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkumaNoZeta Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 The thing that scared me about that is the angle would be too much and cause the oil to settle away from the pick-up and we know what bad things will happen if that occurs. I had an idea about for left-hand drive steering shafts, what about the engine/trans assembly of a Toyota MR2 Spyder? I haven't been able to find a photo of the engine bay in one of those but maybe because the engine is in the back it could be mounted to the transaxle differently allowing the engine to offset to the right side, leaving ample room for the left-hand drive steering shafts. No idea though, maybe later today I'll be able to ask my nieghbor (she has a MR2) if I can check out the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 this would be for a road car? the possible diff conversions I edited into my post back up in #6 would really only work with offroaders like the dune buggy, a welded diff front and rear isn't too much of a problem offroad, but would be dangerous onroad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 as far as left/right bias goes... I don't think it would really matter which way it goes in north/south... so if it crowds the steering shaft, just flip it 180 to fit to the other side of the bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkumaNoZeta Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 To sum up the edit, are you talking about just putting a tiny ring gear in there? That would pretty much make them into something like a minispool wouldn't they? I'm not an offroader so it would be street-driven if I did do it. That's why I was thinking more of doing something to the transaxle instead of the differentials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkumaNoZeta Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 Flipping it would cause problems with the pulleys and belts, the problem is they would be hitting the firewall...then again set it forward more and make sure you have enough room to access the pulleys for future maintenance. Or on a race-car make access holes through the firewall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Yah... I'm not sure what happens in a FWB gearbox and transaxle. You'll probably have to pick one up cheap and pull it apart to see what's up in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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