300zx LS1 conversion

[Crash]

^^^ Exactly. Technically, you'd still be able to bolt a standard T56 to the Vette LSx, but the Vette's version of the T56 has a completely different input shaft since there's a torque tube the runs from the engine to the transmission. (Like a long driveshaft)

 

The site worded it wrong. It's not the LS1 from the vette it won't work for, it's the vette's trans. You can bolt a F-Body T56 to a corvette LS1.

 

The real differences between the Vette LS1 and the rest is the pullie setup. The Vette's pullies are arranged differently and are actually closer to the motor. They did this because of the space restrictions. However, in the case of our swaps, the F-Body/GTO pullie setup is better for us because the Vette's alternator location would cause a problem for closing the hood.

[zangiefisgod]

Alright, alright... so it looks like cutting the firewall is the easiest, cheapest & darn-near only option for a successful LSx swap in the Z32.

 

Can we switch gears to discuss what's required in cutting the firewall and what luxuries will be lost??

 

I know there are a few out there that have done this... please chime in!!!

 

[mr3]

I'm just starting to plan for my ls1 swap. I still have to pull the engine out and get the bay all cleaned up. I'll be able to do all the mechanical parts but the electrical part is the only thing that has me confused. The only other problem I'm having is the money for this car.

[drz400y]

I have been watching this thread and others similar for some time now. I am in the process of fitting an LSX to my Z32. Some of you may have seen the thread on aus300zx.com.

 

I have my engine and trans mounted(LS1/TH350). The engine is as far back as possible without cutting the firewall or tunnel. The tunnel did require some hammer and dolly work but nothing compared to cutting it open. I am using a stand alone ecu so do not need the sensors at the rear of the intake, hence no firewall clearancing in that area. My steering rack and crossmember remain factory and in factory position. I am using the Moroso oil pan #20140 and clearance is excellent. It does hang around 1" below the crossmember but this will not be an issue in my application.

 

If you are insistant on a m6 trans then yes you will have to mod the tunnel, no way around it. I believe a T5 trans would fit without major reconstruction.

 

As far as headers are concerned, nothing locally will fit around the steering shaft. This does not affect me as I am going turbo anyway, so headers will be custom.

 

Throttle to hood clearance wold be an issue but I am using a vented bonnet so there is plenty of room.

 

I feel setting the engine a little further forward and not cutting the firewall is a better option. The weight difference between the LSX/TH350 and VG30DETT/auto is quite alot.

 

Let me know if you have any queries or would like photos of anything.

[zangiefisgod]

I have been watching this thread and others similar for some time now. I am in the process of fitting an LSX to my Z32. Some of you may have seen the thread on aus300zx.com.

 

I have my engine and trans mounted(LS1/TH350). The engine is as far back as possible without cutting the firewall or tunnel. The tunnel did require some hammer and dolly work but nothing compared to cutting it open. I am using a stand alone ecu so do not need the sensors at the rear of the intake, hence no firewall clearancing in that area. My steering rack and crossmember remain factory and in factory position. I am using the Moroso oil pan #20140 and clearance is excellent. It does hang around 1" below the crossmember but this will not be an issue in my application.

 

If you are insistant on a m6 trans then yes you will have to mod the tunnel, no way around it. I believe a T5 trans would fit without major reconstruction.

 

As far as headers are concerned, nothing locally will fit around the steering shaft. This does not affect me as I am going turbo anyway, so headers will be custom.

 

Throttle to hood clearance wold be an issue but I am using a vented bonnet so there is plenty of room.

 

I feel setting the engine a little further forward and not cutting the firewall is a better option. The weight difference between the LSX/TH350 and VG30DETT/auto is quite alot.

 

Let me know if you have any queries or would like photos of anything.

 

Eric,

 

Thanks for joining this thread, it would be great to see some photos of your swap. I am particularly interested in where you impacted the firewall for clearance and the oil pan/hood fittament.

 

1. You mentioned the T5 may be fit without major reconstruction; have you tried to fit one prior to the automatic? I have heard of guys using them for Z32 swaps, but have yet to see any photos of the fittament.

 

2. If you weren't using a stand-alone ECU, how much clearancing would have been needed for the sensors? Any chance of relocation?

 

3. What did you use for motor/transmission mounts?

 

 

For my swap, I am not as concerned with fabbing the firewall as I am the hood, rack, oil pan, etc. It will not be a daily-driver, so as long as the structural rigidity isn't affected & the dash fits, I'll be good to go. Obviously heat and AC would be nice, but if it's a deal-breaker when cutting the firewall, I can live without it.

 

I was thinking about the turbo route as well- have you started the header project? May want to check out this thread if you haven't already...

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=141520&highlight=turbo+LS1

 

Thanks again,

KC

[drz400y]

I havent tried fitting a T5 but the main problem with the T56 seems to be the height of the case,T5 is much lower in that area.

 

If I wasnt using a stand alone, the firewall would need to be knocked in around 1/2" where the sensors are.

 

The throttle body will not clear a standard bonnet, mine is raised and vented.

 

I will get some phots up toomorrow of the sump, throttle etc.

 

I started making the headers today, they are along the same lines as those others, just a little more tricky.

[BRAAP]

Having extensively and exhaustively mocked up the LSx and T-56 in a Z 32 shell every which way I could conjure in an effort NOT to cut the firewall, I learned a few things.

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=144469

 

From my mock ups, the height of the case is not really the biggest issue. Yes the T-5 case is little shorter in height, but that in itself doesn’t come in to play until you conquer a few of the other more pressing and higher priority clearance issues, i.e. the bell housing and trans tunnel entrance. Once that addressed (cut the firewall), then either trans fits equally well.

 

To be honest, the T-5 actually has more of an issue with clearance in the Z-32 vs the T-56 mainly because of its bulging bell housing. It crashes it he firewall. After cutting the firewall to clear the bell housing, then which trans to choose is more of a preference based on weight, power loading, availability, etc. not so much as to which will fit easier as the fitment and clearance issues of both transmission have been addressed by cutting the firewall/trans tunnel entrance.

 

The main clearance issues with the trans in the Z-32 chassis is the bell housing to trans tunnel entrance. The trans tunnel entrance is very low and small diameter, and what makes things worse is the rack and pinion is so far rearward in the engine bay and its elevation in the engine bay make this conversion VERY difficult if not impossible to do without cutting the firewall, cutting the hood, relocating/altering rack/steering/suspension, or any combination of the those. Cutting the firewall/trans tunnel entrance eliminates all of those issues.

 

This picture illustrates the T-5 outline overlaid on a F-bod T-56, w/the input/output shafts centerlines at the same elevation.

 

BLUE line is the T5 bellhousing and trans case lay out overlaid on this F-body T-56, with the input/output shafts being the same elevation.

 

GREEN represent the T-5 bell housing, (T-56 is two piece design that also fits in between the GREEN lines.)

 

MAGENTA is the Z-32 firewall, tunnel slope and tunnel with the engine trans set in the car per my final mock up in the thread linked above, (crankshaft and trans output centerline approx the same elevation as the stock VG30DE).

 

RED is the stock Z-32 shift lever location with the power train in the position mentioned above.

 

 

 

THis picture shows the bell-housing tunnel entrance clearance issue with the LS1 and T-56 mocked up in the Z-32. The T-5 bell-housing bulges out considerably more in that region circled in GREEN.

 

Edited May 18, 2009 by BRAAP

[BRAAP]

Alright, alright... so it looks like cutting the firewall is the easiest, cheapest & darn-near only option for a successful LSx swap in the Z32.

 

Can we switch gears to discuss what's required in cutting the firewall and what luxuries will be lost??

 

I know there are a few out there that have done this... please chime in!!!

 

 

 

Down side is that much of the factory climate controls systems will need to be deleted, reconfigured, or a whole new HVAC system designed, fabbed, and installed, of course depending on how much of a factory designed and operational “all-climate” interior you want. If the HVAC and some of the other vehicle sub systems such as Air Bags, etc are not desired and going to be deleted or simplified any how, that makes the decision to cut the firewall just that much easier and the LSx install is a no-brainer!

 

 

Picture of the dash removed from a Z-32. Picture doesn’t do it justice. There is TONS of stuff under the dash, crammed all the way up to the firewall that are all tied into one another on many levels, electrically, structurally, ducting, plumbing, etc.

 

 

 

This is the HVAC just above the trans tunnel where the tunnel entrance slope ends. Can’t really make out alt he crap in this region, but there is bit of stuff that will need to be removed;

[Crash]

You still may not have to cut the firewall for the M6. It does look like the McLeod bellhousing would clear the tunnel with a little bit of hammer influence. The HVAC stuff just at the end of the firewall and tunnel will either have to be removed or relocated. I haven't pulled my interior apart yet so I don't know how much of it needs to be (re)moved, but I plan to - if I can - keep the AC. I don't want to buy an aftermarket AC system because the I won't be able to use the automatic and OEM AC controls in my Z32 (which is something I really like both looks wise and functionality wise).

 

Worst case scenario, I will have to relocate a lot of the other stuff under the dash that doesn't HAVE to be in the center of the dash to the right and move the HVAC up. I already have to change the plumming for the heater core so, this obviously is going to require a lot of planning once all the dash components are removed from the firewall, and then you have to be able to put the dash back on! LOL (Unless you want to go full weight reduction... )

[meindaparish]

I've been neglecting you guys for a while. But, I've been back at it. I'm using a t5. I've already cut my firewall and made all my mounts. If you all can wait till later in the week. I'll take as many pics as possible. I really do think that we should mostly stop trying to worry about fitting either trans in without cutting. As much as it would be nice to not believe him, BRAAP is right. It won't happen. I just want to see guys making good progress on thier cars, instead of wasting time beating a dead horse. so get out there and fire up the sawzall, side grinder, plasma cutter, Plastic explosives, or whatever else you need to get through your firewall. Lol.

[Crash]

^^^ I agree... Cutting some of the firewall out is the best way to alleviate pretty much all other issues.

 

I'm going to have my exhaust guy look at my setup and find out how much custom headers are going cost to make. He also says he may have an LS1/trans for me as well, so I may be getting my project started in a couple weeks! I've got a lot of stuff going on right now, so I have no weekends right now. But if at all possible, after next weekend, I would like to start pulling the motor out of the car, prepping and cleaning the engine bay, and stripping the interior.

[drz400y]

http://www.aus300zx.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286885&page=4

 

Check out this thread. Most of it has been sorted out without too many issues, but I am using a TH350.

 

I wasnt sure on the T5, just going off an eyeball of one.

[zangiefisgod]

Down side is that much of the factory climate controls systems will need to be deleted, reconfigured, or a whole new HVAC system designed, fabbed, and installed, of course depending on how much of a factory designed and operational “all-climate†interior you want. If the HVAC and some of the other vehicle sub systems such as Air Bags, etc are not desired and going to be deleted or simplified any how, that makes the decision to cut the firewall just that much easier and the LSx install is a no-brainer!

 

 

Picture of the dash removed from a Z-32. Picture doesn’t do it justice. There is TONS of stuff under the dash, crammed all the way up to the firewall that are all tied into one another on many levels, electrically, structurally, ducting, plumbing, etc.

 

 

 

This is the HVAC just above the trans tunnel where the tunnel entrance slope ends. Can’t really make out alt he crap in this region, but there is bit of stuff that will need to be removed;

 

BRAAP,

 

I don't know about anyone else, but all the pictures come up as are RED X's... any links that I can check out? I would love to see pics under the dash!

 

 

MEINDAPARISH,

 

Looking forward to seeing the pics of your swap! It'll be good to see pics of the T5 vs the T56 around the tunnel/firewall entrance. Any tips on the best way to make a clean cut on the firewall would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks guys,

KC

[BRAAP]

BRAAP,

 

I don't know about anyone else, but all the pictures come up as are RED X's... any links that I can check out? I would love to see pics under the dash!

 

 

MEINDAPARISH,

 

Looking forward to seeing the pics of your swap! It'll be good to see pics of the T5 vs the T56 around the tunnel/firewall entrance. Any tips on the best way to make a clean cut on the firewall would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks guys,

KC

 

 

Hmmm.. I see them just fine, even in your quote..

 

Here are the direct links. Let me know if these work?

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b81/BRAAPZ/V-8%20Z-32/LSx/tunnelseaminside.jpg

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b81/BRAAPZ/Z-32/DSC_0274.jpg

[zangiefisgod]

Now the pics work! Sorry about that, probably just my work computer...

 

I'm OK with loosing the HVAC in the car (as it will be only driven in mild weather), but I do want to be cautious about the chassis rigidity, maintaining proper vacuum pressure, etc. Can anyone help me to create a checklist of what can be removed vs. what should not (for the aforementioned reasons)?

 

Secondly, what are my options regarding mounts??

 

Thanks guys,

KC

[300zxls]

there has to be a easier way! Then to hack all that to fit the lsx in a 300! but if not guess I will have to fire up the old trusty hacksaw and grinder.... I havent done any measurments yet for my car, but how much have yall had to hack are we talking a 1/2 inch? or like 2 inches? because if its a half of a inch I would rather try to hammer the wall in in certain spots then hack the wall....

[BRAAP]

there has to be a easier way! Then to hack all that to fit the lsx in a 300! but if not guess I will have to fire up the old trusty hacksaw and grinder.... I havent done any measurments yet for my car, but how much have yall had to hack are we talking a 1/2 inch? or like 2 inches? because if its a half of a inch I would rather try to hammer the wall in in certain spots then hack the wall....

 

 

Sounds like you haven’t read my LSx Z-32 thread? LOTS of pictures of an LS1 and T-56 in a Z 32 with measurements, in different set back and elevation positions, etc. If it were just half an inch from fitting, my LSx would probably be in my car right now! (I very well may have missed something that you guys might find, so don't take my mock up at 100%) I'll link it again;

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=144469

 

From what I found in my mock ups, If you don’t want to cut/notch the firewall, then plan on moving the engine further forward and up, requiring cutting the hood AND the cutting the front radiator support, which in my opinion is going in the wrong direction. Again, I may have overlooked something and it may be doable...

Edited May 20, 2009 by BRAAP

[BRAAP]

Here are a couple shots from another members starting phase of his V-8 Z32. Note the hole he cut in the firewall. This car is currently up and running.

You may not have to go to this extreme, though I feel after all my mocking up and measuring it will be close to this, at least the from the top of the tunnel to the top of the firewall.

 

Pics courtesy of dtsZ

 

 

 

 

 

 

My advice is to quit "speculating". We can speculate and hope for so long and with so many posts that we completely fill up the servers hard-drive.

 

Go through my thread and glean what you can from my measurements and start mocking up your car with the engine AND trans you plan to use. That will help give you a starting point and hopefully you will find something that I missed, making the LSx Z32 a reality without having to cut the firewall or adversely affecting the front suspension geometry.

[zangiefisgod]

Not too shabby! I wonder if dtsZ took any measurements...

 

Those cuts look very close to Aki's from BlackTrax's LS1 swap:

 

http://www.blacktrax.net/projects/Aki300zx.html

 

I emailed BlackTrax's tech and he said, "We didn't build the car with HVAC in mind... I know the factory blower unit will need to be replaced and ducting rerouted..."

 

I say just leave the hole and you have AC 24/7!

 

 

 

ON TO THE MOUNT QUESTION....

 

What is the best way to mock up motor/trans mounts with this motor placement (firewall cut)???

 

Let's keep this thread going!

KC

[300zxls]

I say just leave the hole and you have AC 24/7!

 

 

 

 

ha ha that might work in maryland but down here it would a heater instead of A/C