what motor is this

[Guest Anonymous]

i have found for realtivly little money, a potential Z to buy, its a 71, at first glance the car is rust free, the chassis has been reinforced and it currently has a huge GM v-8 in it. the person selling it has told me the motor is a 350 out of a 74 grand prix, however there was no 350 in a 74 grand prix, that would have to be a 400. the only id i have found on the motor is behind the heads, on top of the block, there is a GM stamp and a serial number (i should have written this number down). i am not sure if this motor is a chevy or a pontiac, it fits in the car, and looks like a the chevy conversion, but does the chevy small block extend a bit behind the heads? i have done little with V-8's so forgive my lack of knowledge. i have some questions though,

 

if it is a pontiac the car should have ridiculous low end torque i have been told, but will rev out low, how difficult will it be to get this motor to rev to 5500 rpm?

 

i am assuming the tranny is either a gm 350 or the 400, if i buy the car will a chevy motor bolt up to this transmission assuming it is paired with a pontiac v-8, or will the whole thing need to be changed out.

 

i have heard some people be skeptical about putting this motor in this car. the initail questions are, yes the motor is already in the car, although it is set up like the old scarab, in that the engine is more forward, and the hood does close over the distributor cap.

 

has anyone heard of this sort of thing being done before? i will be buying the car, even if this motor is horrible idea as the body is in excellent shape, and most Z's in this price range in new england, look like my current Z, no floor.

 

thanks for ths info,

 

mike s.

[Guest Locutus]

That number on the back of the block is the casting number. With that and a number that is stamped on the block in front of the left head(from the front looking back) we can identify the block and the year and the orginal vehicle it was in. If the block has been machined the stamped numbers may be missing from the front but with the casting number you can still at least know if it is a 350 or a 400.

 

Mike

[Guest Anonymous]

Heres the engine numbers.. (Long!)

 

Pontiac Engine Codes

 

1964:

326 250 HP 92x,96-0

326 280 HP 94x,97-0

389 230 HP 04L,05L,08R,09R

389 235 HP 22B

389 267 HP 11H,12H

389 283 HP 10A

389 303 HP 25K,26K,27P,28P

389 306 23B,29N

389 325 78X,79J

389 330 32B,34N,33-6

389 348 76X,77J

421 320 35B,38S,43N

421 350 44B,47S,49N

 

1965:

326 250 WP,ZN

326 285 WR,YP

389 256 WA,WB,YA,YB

389 290 WC,YC,YD

389 325 YE,YF

389 333 WE

389 335 WT,YS

389 338 WF,YG

389 360 WS,YR

421 338 HP WG,YH

421 356 WH,YJ

421 376 WJ,YK

 

1966:

326 250 WP,WX,YN,XF

326 285 WR,YP,XG

389 256 WA,WB,YA

389 290 WC,YV,YU,YC,YD

389 325 YX,YL,YW,YF,YE

389 333 WE

389 335 WW,WT,YS,XE

389 360 WV,WS,XS,YR

 

1967:

326 250 HP WP,WX,WC,WH

326 250 HP YO,YN,XF,YJ,XI

326 285 HP WR,XR,WK,WD

326 285 HP YP,XG,YM,XO

400 255 HP XL,XM

400 260 HP XB

400 265 HP WA,WB

400 265 HP YA,YB,YC,YD

400 290 HP XV,XU

400 293 HP XC

400 325 HP WU,WZ,WQ,WI

400 325 HP YE,YF,YT,XE,XN,XW,XX

400 333 HP WD,WE,WY,XT

400 335 HP WT,WW,YS

400 350 HP XZ,XY,XH,XJ

400 360 HP WS,WV,WR,XS,YZ,XP

428 360 HP WG,Y2,YY

428 376 HP WJ,XK,Y3,YH,Yk

 

1968:

350 265 HP WD,WC,YN,YJ

350 320 HP WR,WK,YP,YM

400 265 HP XM,YA

400 290 HP WA,WB,YC

400 330 HP YT,YW

400 335 HP WQ,WZ,WI,XN

400 340 HP WU,XT

400 350 HP XZ,XH,YS,YZ

400 360 HP WT,WS,XS,XP

400 366 HP WY,XW

428 375 HP WG,YH

428 390 HP WJ,YK

 

1969:

350 265 HP WC,WP,WM,WU

350 265 HP XL,YJ,XR,YN,XB,YE,YU,XS

350 325 HP WK,WN,XC,XD

350 330 HP WR,WV,XT,XU,YP

400 265 HP XM,YZ,XX,YB,YF

400 290 HP WA,WB,WD,WE,YC,YD

400 330 HP WZ,YT

400 335 HP WQ,YW

400 340 HP XZ

400 345 HP WH,XN

400 350 HP WT,WX,YS,XH

400 366 HP WS,YZ

400 370 HP WW,XP

400 375 HP WI,WY,XY,XW

428 360 HP WG,YL,YH,XE,XJ

428 370 HP WF,XF

428 390 HP WJ,WL,YK,XG

 

1970:

350 255 HP W7,WU,X7,YU

400 265 HP XX,YB

400 290 HP WE,YD

400 330 HP XZ,XV

400 350 HP WX,WT,XH,YS

400 366 WS,YZ

400 370 WW,WH,XP,XN

455 360 HP WA,YC,YH

455 370 HP WG,XF

 

1971:

350 250 HP WR,WU,WN,WP

350 250 HP XR,YU,YN,YP

400 265 HP WS,WX,XX,YX

400 300 HP WK,WT,YS

455 280 HP WG,YG

455 325 HP WJ,YC

455 335 HP WL,WC,YE

 

1972:

350 160 HP WR,YU,YV,YR

400 200 HP YX,YZ,ZR,ZV,ZX

400 250 HP WK,WS,YS,YT,ZS

455 185 YH,YW

455 200 HP ZH

455 220 HP YA,YC,Y4

455 250 YD,YK

455 300 WD,WM,YB,YE

 

1973:

350 150,175 HP XR,WV,ZB,ZD

350 150,175 HP Y2,Y7,YR,YV,ZR,ZV

350 150,175 HP WA,WC,WD,WF,WL,WN,XZ

400 170,185 HP W5,XH,XI,X3,X4

400 170,185 HP YI,YP,YX,YZ,Y4,ZK,ZX

400 200,230 HP WK,WS,WP,YN,YX,YT

400 200,230 HP Y3,ZN,ZS,XK,XN,XX

400 200,230 HP XZ,X5,YF,YG,Y6

455 215,250 HP WT,WW,ZZ,ZE,YA,YC

455 215,250 HP YD,YK,ZA,AC,XA,XE,XJ

455 215,250 HP XL,XY,XT,X7,XO,YE

455 290 ZJ,XD

455 310 Z8,X8

 

1974:

350 155,170 HP WA,WB,AA,YA,ZA

350 155,170 HP YB,YC,ZB,YN,YP,YS

350 170,200 HP WN,WP,ZP,YN,YP,YS

400 175,190 HP AH,YH,YJ,ZH,ZJ

400 175,190 HP AD,YF,YK,ZD,ZK

400 200,225 HP WT,WR,Y3,AT,YT

400 200,225 HP YZ,ZT,AD,YL,YM,ZS

455 215,250 HP AU,YR,YU,YW,YX

455 215,250 HP YY,ZU,ZW,ZX,A4

455 215,250 HP Y4,Y6,Y9,Z4,Z6

455 290 HP W8,Y8

 

1975:

350 155 HP YB,YA

350 175 HP WN,YN,ZP

400 170 HP YH

400 185 HP WT,YS,YT,ZT,YM

455 200 HP WX,YU,ZU,ZW

 

1976:

350 160 HP (Early) YB,YA,YP,YR,ZX

350 160 HP (Late) XM,XP,XU,XR,XW,XX,X3,ZF,ZH

350 165 HP ZX,ZF

400 170 HP (Early) YJ,YC

400 170 HP (Late) X9,X4,XT,XY,XS,XZ,X8

400 185 HP (Early) WT,Y6,Y7,YS,YT,YY,YZ,ZA,ZK

400 185 HP (Late) WY,X7,ZJ,ZL,X6

455 200 HP WX,Y3,Y4,Z3,Z4,Y8,ZB

 

1977:

301 135 HP WB,YW,YX,YH,YK

350 170 HP YA,YB,XB,XC,Y9

400 180 HP XH,XJ,XD,XF

400 180 HP YU,Y4,XA,Y7,XK

400 200 HP WA,Y6

 

1978:

301 140 HP XA,XC,XL,YM

301 140 HP XD,XB,YL,YP

301 150 HP XF,XH,XU,XW

400 180 HP XJ,XK,X9,YK,YH,YS

400 180 HP YT,YJ,YR,YW,YA,YU

400 220 HP WC,X7

 

1979:

301 135 HP PX7,PX9,PXF

301 135 HP PXH,PXP,PXR

301 150 HP PWA,PWB

301 150 HP PX4,PX6,PXL,PXN

301 150 HP PXS,PXT,PXU,PXW

400 220 HP PWH,LAST 400

 

Regards,

 

Lone

[Guest Anonymous]

Heres a good page on Pontiac Block Identification:

http://www.boyleworks.com/ta400/psp/blockID.html

 

 

Good luck!

 

Lone

[Kevin Shasteen]

If I remember correctly-the Pontiac's intake manifold's #1 & #2 intake ports were connected to each other (like a crossover almost) and there was actually an air gap between them & the intake manifold backwards? The thermostat sat on top of the #1 & #2's crossover port! I hope I explained that intelligently enough; the gap is such that you can actully put your hand between the two ports & touch the valley pan (Does memory serve me correct-that would make the Pontiac's a 2-piece intake manifold?)

 

If its a Pontiac Block (Per American V8 Engine Data Book) the Pontiac Div have used two basic blocks thru the years.

 

The simplest way to ID a Pontiac block is to count the freeze plugs on each side of the block or you can count the "sets" of side motor mount holes.

 

If there are no side motor mount holes then it is a 55-58 vintage block. If there are only two side motor mount holes it is a 59-66 vintage block. If there are three side motor mount holes or five side motor mount holes then it is a 70 & later block.

 

What separates the 59-70& on blocks is the number of freeze plugs in the side of the blocks. If it only has two freeze plugs on each side then it is a 66 or earlier block.

 

If the block has three freeze plugs on each side then it is a 67 or later block.

 

Kevin,

(Yea,Still an Inliner)

 

[ June 13, 2001: Message edited by: Kevin Shasteen ]

[Guest Anonymous]

Wow Kevin, you know your pontiacs pretty well! That page mentions those very things. As Kevin said the Pontiac WILL have space under the manifold and will alot you to remove the manifold without moving the distibutor (one of its cooler features). The 400 is actually one bodacious motor, it breaths real good. A partner had one in a 67 GTO that could literally light them up a good half a block in stock form. (granted its G70-15 redline tires were no match, but still!) What was really cool was the gated automatic shifter, move a slide out of the way and slap the shifter right and down to first, then you had a straight line shifter with a lockout of neutral. They're 350 wasn't bad either, another friend had a 68 firebird 350 HO with a 4sp posi that was damn quick.

 

Regards,

 

Lone

 

[ June 13, 2001: Message edited by: lonehdrider ]

[Kevin Shasteen]

Okay, class; should I tell Lone that I was reading the book as I gave the description of the pointiac blocks or just keep on allowing him to be in awe of me? Shhh-keep this a secret!

 

Lone; I did remember that the Pointiac's intake was seperate-& didnt see the picture of it till I found my book. Then I found the section on the description of the block.

 

(Man I hate busting a guys bubble of me-I'ld rather do so after I conned him out of $20.)

 

Hey Lone; can I borrow $20?

 

Kevin,

(Yea,Still an Inliner)

[Guest Anonymous]

Ahh, so I see how it is Jedi, using ones trick against your foe. (Holding up hand) I was not here, you don't remember seeing me.

 

I do the same, I research using the web generally, really if one becomes familiar with search engines and get a bit shrewd with your search phrases you can find anything. And I do mean anything.

 

$20 bucks? You must be joking, I'm rebuilding a Z, folding money hasn't seen my wallet since Moses was in short pants. Money just visits my account monthly and then I give it to Summit or Jegs...

 

Regards,

 

Lone

[Guest Anonymous]

where would that info appear, and what does the long number on the back of the block refer to? would a 74 pontiac motor be stamped GM wiht a number, or stamped pontiac?

 

i have been told that the pontiac's extend beyond the heads, do the chevy's extend as well?

 

does any one know of a website that has visual views of the different GM motors?

 

thanks mike s

[Mike kZ]

Check out this site for Chevy numbers: http://www.mortec.com/

[DavyZ]

I don't think it really matters if the engine is a Pontiac or a Chevy. Most V8's will run to 5500 rpm. The Pontiac would be a first for me; I have never heard of that swap before, but I'm not saying it hasn't been done. Both motors make torque enough to boil the baloneys (spin the rear tires)--so that's not really an issue. 99% of the swaps are Chevy. Why? Tried and true, that's why! Get a knowledgeable friend to look at it with you. If the price is right, buy it!

 

As far as casting numbers are concerned, go the the book store or library and get an engine guide or a good rebuilder's guide that specifies how to figure out the casting numbers for both engines.

 

David

 

David