Nigel
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Posts posted by Nigel
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Yep, referring to the 6AL
Not sure tho what my mechanic do, he just told that he tried many things and wasn't able to get it work. Trying to find the correct way so I can inform him
It's going to be tough to troubleshoot without knowing exactly what was done. I've never installed a 6AL or tach adapter personally, but I am a career electrical designer, and I can tell you what I'd do if it were me hooking all of this up. But first, do you at least know what was done with the distributor...
Original distributor with original points
Original distributor with Pertronix ignition
Original distributor with Optical Pickup like a Crane ignition
280Z/ZX distributor
Nigel
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The 8920 looks like the correct adapter for a current driven tach. When you say MSD ignition, are you talking about the 6AL? I think a lot of the problems that people have with this installation comes from how they wired the MSD 6AL. To start, what exactly did you connect the Red and White wires on the 6AL to? Also, what did you do with the original ballast resistor?
Nigel
'73 240ZT
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You have a '73 or later Z, but the middle picture is from an earlier Z (confused me at first because you make it sound like it's from your car), and/or one that someone has rerouted the brake lines on, so you can't use that as a comparison.
'73 and later Z have the proportioning valve mounted to the firewall, and it uses brake pressure to the front right caliper to modulate pressure to the rear brakes. It is not a warning light switch. The brake warning light switch is mounted to the driver's side inner fender.
It's hard to tell from your pictures, but there should be a third line running from the clutch master on the driver's side, across the firewall to the passenger side. Looks like it's there but cut? Or as other's have mentioned, it's an evap emissions line and the car started out as an automatic? Hard to say without further investigation.
Nigel
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Did you look at the MOMO hub list for Nissans?
http://www.momousa.com/products/products/steering-wheels/hubs/nissan-hubs.html
The 240SX has a different part number so I doubt it will fit an early Z.
Like BluDestiny said, buy a MOMO hub and get an NRG slim adapter.
If you're looking for a cheaper hub, there's a non-collapsible (unlike MOMO) Boss Hub. Search "240Z Boss hub" on ebay. You can also get Momo adapters for Grant hubs.
Nigel
'73 240ZT
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I have a 20+ year old strut on my '73 240Z. It may even be original for all I know. Anyway, it has no problem holding up the hatch with a Victory spoiler on it, which is a couple of inches taller, and presumably heavier, than the BRE.
Nigel
'73 240ZT
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1st:
I am having some issues with the spacers that PO had on the car, looks like a mechanic made them and they are hubcentric (I think thats the right word).
Wheel adapters are much better. The adapter bolts to the hub, and then the wheel bolts to the adapter. Longer studs with spacers are fine if the spacers are thin (1/4"?), but if you need an inch or more, adapters are the way to go. I've never seen proof of one failing.
2nd:
Brakes. Looks like the PO had Rx7 discs and calipers (hubs?) installed on the front, 240SX single pot calipers and discs (and hubs?) in the back. brand new MC and brand new Booster, I am able to push the brake pedal while the car is running clear to the floor, but I have hard stopping power about half way down and no firmness which makes for some blind braking. When the car is off and the brake pedal is pumped it is hard and firm and seems like the MC is holding pressure.
Sounds like a missing reaction disk in the brake booster. There should be a sticky on in it the FAQ section. You may already have the larger master cylinder. The bore should be cast into the side of the master. Check that first before you go and buy a duplicate of what you may already have.
3rd:
pulled the Power steering pump (real men use muscles to steer)
There never was power steering in a Z.
Enjoy!
Nigel
'73 240ZT
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I have to say, Edan is a pro and when i had some install questions, he was very helpful.
I bought the Silvermine rear kit as well, and I'd also have to say that Edan was easy to deal with. He responded quickly to e-mail and was very patient with me while I went through various shipping options with him. First class customer service.
Silvermine's kit is absolutely top-notch. It uses the calipers and rear rotors (re-drilled) from the 2011 Ford GT500 Mustang. The 12" rear rotors are drilled and vented. You have to switch the calipers left to right due to the position of the E-brake assembly but the stock e-brake cables fit right up. You do have to adjust the cables to their max extended adjustment, but then they hook up no problem and work awesome. Because the calipers are switched, it puts the bleeder valve on the bottom, so you have to bleed them off the mounts. You HAVE to put a block or the rotor itself in the caliper when bleeding or the pads will close down to far and you won't be able to get it on the rotor.
I have to admit, I was not quite so impressed with the kit as you. Firstly, I found the e-brake setup left a few things to be desired. Sure the cable connects to the caliper e-brake arm ok, but there was no provision for actually attaching the cable sleeve to the bracket, and the instructions didn't elaborate on this. I was able to rig something up with a couple of washers and a bit of grinding and welding, but that's not exactly bolt-on. The other thing I wasn't thrilled about is that the routing of the e-brake cables has them rubbing against the bottom of the frame rail, and they are forced to bend quite a bit when the suspension is compressed. Once the cables were hooked up, I found that even with all of the slack out of the cable, I could still pull the e-brake handle so that it was pointing straight up. But there may have been some other adjustment I missed, and the brakes still locked up ok. I also found that having to remove the calipers every time you bleed the brakes is a pain. And I discovered that the brake pads run right out past the chamfer on the edge of the rotors, so you get this little lip forming on the brake pad as they wear. One other issue to be aware of, but this is in no way a fault of the kit and I knew this could be an issue going in, is that the e-brake assembly on the caliper will likely not clear CV axle flanges. They wouldn't clear my Z31 CV axle flanges, and they wouldn't clear onetuffz's R230 CV axle flanges.
In the end, I made a few small modifications (but took a long time to work out) to the calipers so that the e-brake assembly on the caliper would clear the CV flange, I could mount the calipers on the correct side of the car, and angle the e-brake assembly so that the cable wouldn't be pointing straight up at the frame rail. I also made up my own custom length cables so that I could route them such that they wouldn't rub on anything, and they engage with the e-brake arm like a Ford cable would. Once all that was complete, I was very happy with the results. The brakes performed very well on the track (I wouldn't even consider the smaller 240SX or Maxima calipers if you want rear disks for more than just looks), and the e-brake holds like a 20 ton anchor!
Ideally, I think the caliper mounting brackets could be revised so that the calipers could be mounted on the correct side of the car and provide better cable routing, without having to modify the caliper. The CV axle clearance would still be an issue, but there are some simple parts that could be fabricated to deal with that too to make this a truly "bolt-on" kit.
Nigel
'73 240ZT
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IIRC, they're M8 bolts. I'd guess that the length was 25 or 30mm. Doesn't hurt to go a bit longer.
Nigel
'73 240ZT
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Unless he's using 3" intercooler pipes for his power steering line, I suspect your standard $15 tube flaring tool will do the job just fine. They'll typically flare lines up to 5/8"Myhttp://www.harborfreight.com/double-tube-flaring-tool-kit-66534.html link
Nigel'73 240ZT
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So, I have had no luck contacting Les. Is there anyway I could employ someone to give him a call and ask him to check his messages on classiczcar.com or maybe even here if he has an account? Being deployed sucks sometimes
The hood looks great Nigel! Hopefully my car looks that nice when I get back.
Thanks!
Try e-mailing Les at z432@pacbell.net. That's the address he was replying to me from.
Nigel
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Does the scoop flex at speeds? I think it is a great idea, but if it flexed at speed.. it would only be a matter of time before it became two pieces.....
I've only had the car up to 90mph so far, but there were no signs of the vent distorting in any way. I would suspect that a fiberglass air dam or entire hood would see far greater aerodynamic forces and they seem to hold up fine. And this isn’t some flimsy, single layer of fiberglass piece. It’s very well made. But hopefully someone here who has had one of these on their Z for the past 35+ years can chime in on how well it’s held up.
I hope to get the car on the track later in the summer and if it appears to be flexing at higher speeds, a couple of carbon fiber rods could be bonded on along the length of the vent for extra rigidity.
Nigel
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Looks like good results are not that easy to get...
My linhttp://www.hotrodders.com/forum/alsa-killer-chrome-product-review-146018.htmlk
Nigel
'73 240ZT
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I finished installing the hood this past weekend. The vent was a piece of cake to mount on the hood, but getting the hood on the car turned out to be an unexpected nightmare! I'll save that story for later though.
I've painted the hood and vent satin black for now, because it was quick and easy to do, but I'll probably have them painted white to match the rest of the car when I have the whole car repainted next year.
Nigel
'73 240ZT
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To be nit-picky, if you're good at setting up a car, it's likely because you use the scientific method. It's not the publishing that makes something scientific.
http://www.sciencema...fic_method.html
The steps of the Scientific Method are:
Exactly! A race track is like a giant laboratory. Every time you change spring rates, adjust camber, check tire temperatures, etc. you're experimenting and observing and gaining knowledge.
As I said before, it's a simple fact of physics that you can't have a tire dedicate 100% of it's traction to acceleration and to cornering at the same time. It doesn't mean a FWD car CAN'T win in a race with a RWD car. It's just one factor among many others that has an influence on the outcome. And you don't win races by being ignorant of those factors. Experimenting, observing and gaining knowledge about them allows one to make intelligent decisions about their application or influence and consequently improve his or her chances of winning.
Nigel
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"All else being equal" is a BS Internet Engineering argument. Nothing is ever equal. The race I posted above was in an unlimited race category (Super Unlimited) with NASA.
So what's the point of this thread then? Showing that a particular car won one race with a million different variables coming in to play proves nothing. "All else being equal" is not a BS argument, it's priciple of science that allows us to establish actual facts, and not just meaningless conjecture, which is what the internet is really full of.
BTW, I've had FWD cars run circles around my Z at the track.
How about we talk about live axle vs independent suspension instead? Or drum brakes vs disk brakes. Mid engine vs front engine...
Nigel
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The rules dont alow a fwd indy car because that car would surely kill someone. Also, if fwd was the better platform the rules would be the opposite. They would not allow RWD.
Can you explain why FWD = Death?
Also, racing rules frequently have little to do with what's "better". Why no AWD then?
Nigel
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I'm not an expert racing series but I just want to be fair and mention that I am pretty sure Nascar, and F1 both have very specific requirements for chassis design that effectively outlaws FWD car chassis configurations. Also CART and INDY only allow the use of one standard chassis for all competing teams to level the playing field, so no chance for FWD cars there either. I'm not familiar with NHRA drag racing at all but I've seen videos of FWD cars running 8s or 9s. Thats pretty fast. Can FWD go as fast as RWD dragsters can? A top fuel FWD car has not been built to my knowledge so its really impossible to say for sure. Point is there doesnt seem to be many publicized racing series where FWD cars are even allowed to compete with RWD cars on the same level.
However, BTCC doesnt restrict driveline choice so teams can use FWD or RWD. Interestingly enough, this series has been dominated by FWD cars for years now. Though there were more RWD cars in the past there are actually very few of them left competing in the series. WTCC is similar, RWD and FWD cars compete directly, and though they arent as seemingly dominant have won the championship last couple years or so.
I'm not saying that youd ever see a FWD car in F1, but just that in a lot of series cars look a certain way because they are required to, not necessarily because that's what's best.
As pointed out, trying to compare apples to apples among different race series is going to be exceedingly difficult dut to rule restrictions. But this applies even within a race series. Sure BTCC has FWD and RWD cars competing side by side, but typically, RWD cars are subject to a weight penalty, and AWD even more so. That alone points to the inherent advantage of RWD and AWD over FWD. It comes down to physics. Tires have a finite amount of grip, and you can either dedicate 100% it to accelleration or 100% to cornering. You have to compromise one or the other in a FWD car. Which is not to say that you can't have a fast FWD car, but all else being equal, a FWD car will be at a disadvantage. Just look at the driveline choices for supercars, where there are no rule restrictions. They are all either RWD or AWD. You'll never see a FWD Ferrari.
Nigel
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How do the weights compare?
Nigel
'73 240ZT
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I cant find it advertised on his webpage. What is the price?
I think he needs someone to update his website for him. I paid $175 + shipping for mine.
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Sorry missed it, was to excited to see someone recreating it. I sent him a message on classiczcar.
No problem! I understand your enthusiasm. I felt the same way, and that's why I kept following up with Les until he had the part ready. Just be aware that he's apparently very busy, and it can take a while to get a reply back. Mind you, that may have been because he was still arranging production, and had nothing to report. Once he had a part available, the transaction occurred pretty quickly, and the part was well packaged.
Nigel
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That looks really good. I'll see if I can find him. Got a link to a forum post?
He has his own website, which I posted earlier...
FYI, Classic Datsun Motorsports has a mold for this hood vent, and is ready to start production. Pricing should be available soon. Contact CDM if you're interested.
Nigel
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Les at Classic Datsun came through and has released a reproduction of the Competition Hood Vent. I'm not sure if I'm the first, but I just received one. The quality looks to be very good.
There's a flange bonded to the bottom of the vent for mounting. There were no threaded inserts molded into the flange, so I used some 1/4-20 clip-on nuts that I found at Napa:
Here you can see that the entire length of the engine can be opened up for venting:
The vent matches the contours of the hood very well. Other than some scuffing and minor sanding for paint, no work needs to be done to make it fit. I wish I could say the same about the hood, but it was free.
Mounting holes drilled:
Hole cut in hood. Note, you can only cut back to about 6" from the rear of the hood before the hood frame gets in the way.
Nigel
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I'd be really shocked if there was no bearing at the front of the counter shaft. What does the inside of the truck bellhousing look like? Here's a picture of the inside of a long shaft box bellhousing:
At the very least, I would expect a bushing in the truck bellhousing where the 62mm dia countershaft bearing would ordinarily go.
If you were to try to swap the gearset from the long shaft to the short shaft, you would have to pretty much completely disassemble both transmissions. You can download a 240SX service manual for free from http://carfiche.com/manuals023/cars/, which have transmission rebuild instructions so you can get an idea of what's involved. Keep in mind that the 71C transmission continued to evolve even though the designation didn't change. The later model boxes have significantly wider gears than the earlier one for example. So there's no guarantee that a gearset from one would work on the other mainshaft from the other or from a long shaft to a short shaft box. You'll probably just have to try it and find out.
On a side note, it's interesting how much bigger the 3/4 shift fork is in the SR box. To the best of my knowledge, the SR and KA 5 speeds have the same gearsets, but it looks like the SR is beefed up in some other ways. I wonder what else is different?
Nigel
'73 240ZT
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Yeah, but that's talking about the pistons moving out as the pads wear. I always assumed that there was a limit to the elasticity of the piston seals, and after that was reached the piston then pushed through the seal and closer to the rotor. In this case the piston is sliding through the seal due to prolonged pressure on the pedal. I'm not taking issue with you or saying you're wrong, it's just different than what the Lexus manual shows, and not the usual scenario. For comparison, if you have 280ZX rear calipers and you pull the ebrake, the pistons still move in the seals to push on the pads, but they don't commonly slide past the seals and require retraction. Maybe there is a return spring in there and that's why they require the screw adjuster, I don't know.
I don't want to side track this thread too much, but I wouldn't say that what I described is 'different' than what the Lexus manual shows. The Lexus manual doesn't talk about what happens if brake pressure is held for an extraordinary amount of time, and as you indicate, is not the usual scenario. So I was theorizing that if brake pressure were held for a long time with the piston extended, the seal could slide back to the position it would normally be in as if the brake pedal were released. Consequently, when the brake pressure is released, the seal would no longer act as a spring to pull the piston back in.
Regardless, your comparison to a a caliper with an integrated parking brake is a good one, and after finding what information I could (not much) about the internal workings of one, it would appear that my theory probably doesn't hold up. I can't find anything that would indicate that the piston gets pulled back in mechanically when the parking brake is released. It looks like the piston floats at the end of the screw. It's probably a faulty linelock like cygnusx1indicated.
Nigel
Tachometer not working with MSD ignition
in Ignition and Electrical
Posted · Edited by Nigel
The formatting got screwed up when I posted. I hope this fixed it...
The first thing to do is to identify 3 of the original ignition wires.
Black/White Wire originally connected to the coil (+) terminal (0VDC with ignition switch at ON. +12VDC with ignition switch at Start)
Green/White Wire originally connected to the Ballast Resistor
Black/White Wire originally connected to the Ballast Resistor. (+12VDC with ignition switch at ON and Start)
Even though there are two Black/White wires, they are not part of the same piece of wire, and they must be correctly identified. To do this, with all three wire disconnected, turn the ignition switch to the ON (Run) position and measure the voltage to ground at each of the Black/White wires. One of them should have +12VDC, and the other should not. The one without +12VDC is the original coil (+) wire. Once that's been sorted, connect the Green/White and Black/White wires that were originally connected to the Ballast Resistor to each other. This is going to be your Ignition ON source for the MSD 6AL and the 280ZX distributor.
Now you can connect everything as outlined below:
MSD 6AL
Heavy Red Wire to (+) Battery terminal
Heavy Black Wire to (-) Battery Terminal
Red Wire to (+)12V Ignition ON (to original Ballast Resistor Black/White and Green/White Wires which are now connected together)
White Wire to 280ZX Distributor "C" (Top of T) Terminal
Orange Wire to Coil Positive
Black Wire to Coil Negative
Magnetic Pickup (Violet and Green wires) - Not Used
Tach Output to MSD 8920 White Wire
280ZX Distributor
C (Top of T) to MSD 6AL White Wire
B (Leg of T) to (+)12V Ignition ON (to original Ballast Resistor Black/White and Green/White Wires which are now connected together)
MSD 8920
Red Wire to Original Black/White Coil (+) Wire
White WIre to MSD 6AL Tach Output
Black Wire to Chassis GroundViolet Wire - Not Connected
You may need to install a diode in series with the Black/White wire connected to the Alternator External Voltage Regulator to prevent engine run-on after the key is switched off.
Nigel