jmead

best....video...ever

So I just got this message posted to my 240z conversion blog: "Bro ~ I'm sure I speak for many z owners...you should write a book. A detailed how-to-instructable, have you. You detailed quite a bit in this blog, but a step by step guide would be great! I know I would purchase it. I own two 240z's. A '71 with a 400 Small Block V8 and a '73 stock. Like the first respondant, I think it the responsible thing to do. I also have a '65 Lincoln Continental that will eventually receive the same treatment should the z come out well. Thanks again for your great work to society." And its got me thinking. Is there really very much interest in this sort of thing? I am in a unique position because I have completed an electric Z start to finish, yet still have a stock 280z slated to receive the same treatment. Plus, I'm hoping to do a direct drive / lithium conversion, which contrasts very nicely to the stock tranny / lead acid conversion previously.....representing the whole continuum from low to high tech. Last question; I'm willing (and have) given all the info I have away for free. I don't care to make any money. Is a step-by-step (and tangible, physical) guide worth much more than the same steps scattered across several pages on the web? Worth the effort to produce, edit, and have printed? People buy the JTR manual (I did).....so perhaps? Just want a feel for the level of interest here.

The 76 has been prepped (engine removed), but nothing else has been done. I've been swamped with no less than 4 other EV projects all happening simultaneously. Plus, I would really like to convert the 280 without running anything to the back; keep 100% of the batteries and wiring under the hood this time. This will make things way, way easier, but it requires I use lithium batteries. To do it with lead would only be possible with a small, light pack, which would compromise range significantly. I don't want to compromise anything. The diesel was removed when the car was sold, I never got a chance to run it while on the road. The start/stop and speed control was going to be an issue without computerized control, which is tricky on a primitive engine. As far as "farmer's diesel"....I have no idea. My understanding is that if you're caught running off-road diesel in a road vehicle the fines are incredible. But when that diesel is running a generator that runs a vehicle....thats a grey area. If I had to guess I'd say its perfectly legal to run that generator in your driveway, but the second you start moving you're in violation unless you pay the road tax. Here is what I would do; make it removable. If you run into smog issues you just go home, pull it out, and you have a straight EV. Could swap in a cat'ed engine, hydrogen fuel cell, second pack, whatever makes them/you happy without too much trouble. Direct drive....way easier. Haven't tried it personally, but so much of the fabrication was the motor-trans coupling it'd go much more quickly if it could be avoided. Plus, if I had to list what was most likely to fail under abuse, it would be that coupler. To get rid of it makes the whole vehicle so much more elegant in my mind. Since you stick the motor where the transmission was, you free up the whole engine bay for batteries (better weight distribution possible). Direct drive requires alot more motor (8" is plenty with a transmission, 9" minimum for direct and I'd go with a 11" personally) and more controller (1000A was fun with a trans, I'd want more if I was going direct). Counter-intuitive, but battery requirements are unchanged.

Details! Voltage? What size stack? You mentioned both batteries and capacitors? Will there be a buck/boost or will they be paralleled? Have you selected a motor/controller combo? I always thought a fuel cell would be the ideal "auxiliary power source" for the ampeater....I guess I'll be waiting until they show up on the surplus market.

Hard to say, I'm not looking forward to selling it, but there is a pretty good chance it will have to go to make room for the next project. Ideally I'd know before hand so I could design things around a goal, be it performance or economy or style. Are you in the market for a 280zev?

The story is that I had already moved onto a more advanced project mentally; I've got a '76 280z waiting for some love and most of the components for it sitting on the shelf. I guess I like building stuff more than owning the finished product. Truthfully I've already got about 5 vehicles after that planned out mentally, each one is a stepping stone to the next. I'd rather not disclose price, and it is still up in the air at the moment as I continue to purchase parts and work on the vehicle for the new owner. I think the value of this vehicle is limited by the rust present, its beautiful for a 38 year old vehicle but it is still a 38 year old vehicle.

I did but things have changed. The car was sold to a buyer as a pure EV, the generator came out and is waiting for another project. The rear hatch looks completely stock now: Now there are 12 of the 30 batteries concealed below the hatch floor. Much cleaner and way more professional, don't you think?

I reduced weight over the front axle by 150 lbs versus the previous incarnation. Even then people commented that it handled well so I'm eager to see how much the steering has improved. The weight in the rear dropped by a foot and is now located as close to the differential as possible while being centered just above the road. I expect body roll will be reduced as a result. Handling should be superior, with a little less peak power.

Picture of the new and as of yet unfinished engine bay with the new gel cell batteries. I just need to mount that second contactor and finish wiring, could be rolling again tonight.

"He said that for 100W in, they're getting around 1 HP out (which is still above the 746 W / HP supposed limit). " "In a typical motor, when the load goes up, making the rpm go down, the current goes up. He said that in their motor, when you load the motor, the current goes down. He said that this aspect alone was what they were pursuing right now, with the idea that such a motor would have greatly increased life. " Around here we obey the laws of thermodynamics.

Next up is my 76 280z. I've had it since before the 240, it has alot more sentimental value. Its frame is in better condition (zero rust) and less stuff needs to be addressed before it could pass inspection; it could be converted in a matter of weeks or even days if all the parts were on-hand. It will be huge advantage to just be able to drop components in and drive; I spent more time doing restoration stuff than I did electrical on the 240. It took me longer to get the blinkers and brake lights working than it did to wire up the batteries and motor to the motor controller, less headache too. Pictures will follow, as well as those of the finished 240 (when that happens....each day has been an 8 hour work-a-thon for the last few in order to get this thing ready to ship)

Do you have any idea how many amp hours you realistically get out of those during normal use? Those look to be rated 125ah@5hr rate vs. the 75ah of the odyssey agms, but due to peukert effects for a 1 hr discharge the realistic capacity is likely ~70ah for the trojans vs 54ah for the agm. The pack of 12 weighs 720 lbs. My favorite part is the 4 year free replacement warranty, which my sales person assured me would be honored even in an EV application. They also have the marine series with dual terminals available in 100ah and 125ah sizes but with a 2 year warranty and a higher price tag. They are certainly expensive up front. My 1000A controller doesn't even stress them, the highest draw I've achieved out of the batteries was 700a for a brief second. I don't have a lot of long-term experience yet but they have been great so far, I'm curious to see how many cycles they really deliver under daily use. I've never heard a bad comment about odyssey batteries (except the price).

The car has been sold. I'm eager to move onto my next project, my 76' 280z. Right now I am finishing up the wiring, charger and some other loose ends before loading it onto a truck headed for boston. I will definitely upload pictures of the finished product before it heads out; some things have changed.

Its a 9" Kostov motor, from ebay. I would recommend something more mainstream, either a netgain or ADC. This way you're bolt pattern is standardized, the motor could be easily replaced (should the need ever arise), replacement brushes are easily available, etc. Not to mention the huge community of people pushing the limits and accumulating data, so you know how much it can take without needing to break it yourself finding out. For my next conversion I will be following my own advice. My motor is rated 144V and 107A (1hr) at 5000rpm. Less than 100lbs. I love the idea of seeing more EV Z's!

I would check these out: http://www.evdl.org/ http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/ and I also like: http://ecomodder.com/forum/ "fossil fuel free" sub forum By no means a complete list...I feel like I've left out some really good sources, I will update as they come to mind

Well, in this situation the lpg is really more of a "burn catalyst" as I understand it, so you're not really paying for the energy produced from the combusted propane as much as you're paying for better combustion of the primary fuel you're already burning. I have looking into LPG as a primary fuel, and pretty much come to the same conclusion as you. I really, really wanted to convert my 280z at one point, to the point of starting to buy parts, but its hard to justify the expense and what you give up in convenience for what you get. Now, for a turbo'd high compression dragster or something, I don't get why you wouldn't at all. Incredible octane rating, already gaseous and pressurized for unlimited fuel delivery. Maybe due to freezing issues? Its 1.5" tubing. I'm certain I need a good muffler, I have started the diesel up a few times already and it's loud. Even with the muffler that came attached it's a little obnoxious, and if you're strapped in a few feet away I could see that being an issue over time. Hopefully something designed to deal with the pressure waves from 100+ hp engines will be even more effective with the limited exhaust flow, but I don't know much about muffler technology . I also have the issue of having an extremely limited amount of space to work with, the placement of the generator was governed by other factors primarily, which resulted in a much less than ideal exhaust route. The real issue is the designed exhaust port sits at the same height and about 2" away from the rear frame rail. So I either need to modify the original muffler to exhaust down, or remove it entirely and weld a new exhaust to a more conventional car muffler, or both. I think later today I'm going to visit the scrap yard with a tape measure and a hacksaw.

Its just a 10hp air-cooled electric start yanmar, coupled to a 10,000 watt brushless generator through a lovejoy coupler. The engine weighs something like 125lbs and the gen is something like 80. I'd have liked something closer to 20hp but the diesels that big are 250+ lbs. I might consider propane injection to boost the output while cleaning up the particulate emissions (I hear it produces a more complete burn, so more power for the same fuel usage). If that doesn't work out I tried to build everything to be easily removable/upgradeable, so a different engine could be fitted easily. I've been eyeing those 3 cylinder suzuki engines, but then I'd need an upgraded generator to make full use of the output.

Yeah....that's what I'm working on right now, its going to be harder than I thought. Looks like I'm going to have to remove the muffler that came on the engine and fab something up that fits. Probably for the best, that thing is loud the way it is now, something bigger will be good. I'll probably just go to the junkyard tomorrow and find one off a metro or similar small car.

Exactly, all the benefits of electric without the major limitation or only having X amount of power onboard.

Generator is f-i-n-a-l-l-y in the car. This part of the project seemed to drag on forever. I hope to get the wires run and some preliminary mileage numbers within just a few days.

You know of a salvage yard with big motors just sitting around? Give me an address and I'm there! I see the point of the inverter question now. A large 3 phase industrial motor could be used. You should check out http://www.evalbum.com/1149 He used a 3 phase motor from a salvage yard. If you're just looking for around town use then electric will be perfect. I'm guessing that car has a pretty low cd too, which is really what determines range based on a given kwh battery pack. Sounds like an awesome project, I'm a little jealous already.

Well, if you want all out acceleration you can't beat DC. But AC has lots of advantages, the biggest being a wider torque band and greater rpm range/higher peak rpm. Under 2000 lbs is perfect because the ac motors available are generally smaller than DC. I'd look for one around 100kw if possible. An inverter is necessary to drive an AC, and they are generally sold as a pair. The inverter must be matched to the motor. Check out http://www.metricmind.com/ You'll probably want lithium, to keep the weight down and the range up, otherwise a small pack of AGM will provide good acceleration but poor range (depends on what the intended use is). Hopefully you've got a pretty large budget.

Thank you! I remember seeing that car and hearing it had an insanely low cd, but I just couldn't think of the name of the thing. Not only that, but it came in an AWD version? Awesome..... I've been thinking about a setup that included a big series wound DC motor in the back for acceleration, and a smaller PM or AC motor in the front for regen/high eff cruise. Too bad they seem so rare, I think I've only seen one or two on the road ever. Holy grail is right

The battery tech is holding electrics back right now, I'm hoping that changes quickly. Lithium has huge potential; while it is expensive now the raw materials aren't that expensive and china has huge lithium reserves. Things are going to start happening there.... I'm liking the truck concept as well, I've been keeping an eye on craigslist for a toyota with a decent body and a bad motor for cheap. Flooded lead acid will be much cheaper, easier to charge and balance. I think a truck could be done for ~$5k with good performance. That is with a 156v pack, 1000A controller, 9" motor and a DIY charger, if you're frugal and good at fabrication. Maybe $6k would be more reasonable including the truck and odds and ends. I punched the numbers in a calc real quick and it looks like around 80 miles at 50 and 50 miles at 60. That'd get me there and back with half the initial cost and probably half the cost per mile.

Well then one must consider the other benefits, to be fair. What car can I go out and buy that gets 50+ mpg and will roast the tires at will? Where can I get a 50+ mpg vehicle with same class and appeal of a vintage Z? Most vehicles are built for a purpose, to haul 6 kids at once, to get 60mpg, to look really cool....an EV can be cheap and fast and cool and "eco friendly" all at the same time. As far as I'm concerned, this EV is the holy grail. The only limitation I see is the range issue, but the only reason that is still an issue is that I've been having too much fun drifting around parking lots to weld the generator in. I should also point out that I chose expensive, high performance batteries. 90% of conversions use flooded lead acid which cost ~1/3 as much per mile versus AGM.