John Washington

Plasma cutter is definitely the way to go. I have not cut spot welds before, but have used one a bit to cut some pretty complex and precise stuff. You will have to experiment a little with hole size, but take a piece of 1/4 bar stock about 12-18" long and drill a hole (maybe start with 1/2-inch...depends a bit upon the size of the plasma tip) close to one end to act as a circle template. Hold it tightly over the spot weld to be "blown out," put the plasma tip inside, pull the trigger and smoothly trace the inside of the circle. The spot weld should "go away" with minimal heat transferred into the surrounding metal...unlike with a cutting torch.

Oops, forgot a couple of things (it's only a half hour til lunch and how much work can I get done anyway ) Thanks to all of you who posted positive comments to my earlier message. It is very encouraging to have the information well received. Ross, you mentioned air freight. I've done that a few times while I was figuring out things (a never ending process). It is cheaper, and though my shop is 15 minutes from the air cargo facility at Sky Harbor, you have to double that for the round trip, plus the time required to accomplish the transaction at both ends and the customer's round trip time. Even though I try to be pretty efficient with my errands and combine such trips with other things, I found it just was not economical to save $50-$75. This is particularly true when you consider that usually the customer only has to do it once or twice (depending on whether he likes the first order and wants more), but if I had to do it every day it would be a real drain on my already limited amount of time. Now with Freightquote, I get door-to-door service with minimal hassle. Last thing and I'll shut up: In my eagerness to explain mold warping I forgot one of the reasons I started down that tangent: wear due to number of parts pulled. Usually, this shows up first as degradation in the gel coat, which is much harder on the mold than on the parts. It will chip away at the edges and is as much a function of the care with which the parts are pulled. Assuming good prototyping and mold design, and good mold release formulations and application, you should not need a crowbar and a sledge hammer to get them out. OK, I'm really done for today...no really...

Hi, Mike, and thanks for validating some of the stuff I said. I'm glad I didn't get yelled at! On your MSA flares, I've never seen the parts they make, but if there is a height-above-ground discrepency from right-to-left, it is probably due to poor design of the prototype (i.e., the guy who did the prototyping didn't use a tape measure, or was mounting on a car that was sagging on one side or something) rather than a change in the molds. Of course, that doesn't rule out the possiblity there may be other things about them that would indicate age warping of the molds. Warping problems are distinct and separate from issues relating to numbers of parts pulled. Warping is usually due to quality of the resin used to make the molds, thickness of the layup, how the thickness is applied (i.e., if you put it on all at once it generates a lot of heat as it cures), how it is braced, and how it is stored (e.g., outside in the sun for an extended period of time is bad). As far as bracing is concerned, a lot of less knowledgeable laminators don't use any bracing, or use wood. Wood is especially bad for stuff stored outside and subjected to changes in humidity. Better molds use steel tubing welded into a framework. This is attached to the non-working surface of the mold with strips of fiberglass. On smaller molds and molds with a lot of 3-dimensional shape (the VR bonnet is a good example) bracing is not that critical. Well, I went and did it again: I gave away a bunch of secrets of the trade! OK, I'll get back to work. Meanwhile, I like the term you coined, Mike: "Super Vendor." Who's looking for a new line of work? JW

Ok, can't resist. One more for the day. As far as location of the molds and the production work, if you contract the lamination (as I do), it really doesn't matter where it's done. I know several people who use contract fiberglass manufacturers as far as several states away from the person who is selling the parts. Both the shops I use are located here in Phoenix, but if you are going to do this big time as a "super vendor", I would look seriously at remote outsourcing options. Naturally I could help with this and have some inside information, but would rather not discuss it online (have to keep SOME secrets). You can get the parts produced at a substantial savings due primarily to economies of scale WRT purchasing raw materials in bulk. If you can get your vendor up to speed with regard to lamination schedules (the "recipe book" knowledge used to lay up the parts encompassing number of layers, type of fabric, etc.) you can have the vendor drop ship directly to the customer. Mike, I think you really want to get into the business

Hello to all! To paraphrase an old saying, "it doesn't matter if they are talking good about you or bad about you...as long as they are talking about you." Seriously, though, I appreciate all the comments WRT this issue. The recent thread about the cost of making molds was very accurate and amusing to follow. Why? Because I have been trying for years to make people understand why fiberglass costs what it does. I am very glad to see you guys going through the exercise of "costing out" the process...and I admire your enthusiasm and initiative for doing it on your own. I really didn't do as much costing as I should have when I got started. Like a lot of people who get into business, (especially in this industry) I was a "car guy" first and being a businessman wasn't part of my game plan. After doing it for over a decade, getting married, getting older, and realizing that piddling around wasn't going to cut it anymore, I have forced myself to be more business like. However, I've tried not to do so at the expense of customer service Ok, enough of that (sorry about the digression); on to the topic at hand. Shipping fiberglass IS a pain in the ass. Trying to ship it for a resonable price is a bigger one. Trying to properly package it for shipping at a reasonable price adds even more brain damage. All these costs have to be paid by someone. If the customer expects the supplier to remain in business, then he can also expect to pay these costs...one way or another...either directly or in the form of very high prices. Side note: Just for comparison sake have any of you ever asked MSA what they charge for shipping similar items? Keep in mind that (I believe) a lot of their fiberglass stuff is already boxed. However, I am not insensitive to the cost of crating and shipping, even though the customer pays for it, for two very big reasons. 1) It is a deterrent to the purchase. There are some guys who will buy the stuff no matter what the price or the shipping cost. However, for the majority of us (I'm in the same boat myself), it is an issue. Obviously, as the seller I want to give the customer as many reasons to purchase as I can, but I also want to remove as many deterrents, too. I'm in the business of selling the parts. The more I sell the better. If I sell a lot, once in a while I can buy the wife a steak instead of feeding her peanut butter sandwiches 2) Any money you spend on shipping and crating (Which I make NOTHING on, BTW. More on that later) is money you don't have available to spend buying parts from me. The downside of shipping fiberglass is that it occupies a lot of volume. This means that you need big boxes and that they can't be shipped via UPS. Motor freight is the only practical alternative, and on items that occupy a lot of volume they charge for "dimensional weight," which is a fancy way of saying they are charging you for the volume rather than weight. You can't blame the carrier, as the trucks are made to carry a certain amount of weight. When you ship something very large that doesn't weigh much (and therefore is mostly air) you displace other revenue generating cargo (i.e., heavy stuff) from the truck. WRT the boxes: When you ship small items (e.g., mechanical parts for cars) you can simply purchase boxes at a reasonable price from any packaging supplier. I don't have that luxury. For big stuff you have to have boxes made. This costs a lot of money, but the setup costs more. In the amount of volume that I ship (two or three kits a month if I'm lucky...you can see why I'm not getting rich) it doesn't make sense to have this done and suffer the big hit on setup charge or the inventory cost of stocking (ordering AND storing) a bunch of huge boxes. For a while, I was making my own boxes. It took probably twenty or thirty hours to get "proficient" at it. I say that in quotes because it is still a huge pain in the ass. Fortunately, I have made a couple of serendipitous discoveries that help me as well as the customer. First, I am now scrounging bumper cover cartons from the local body shops (which explains why your box may say "Porsche" or "Subaru" on the side). Most of my fender kits will fit in these pretty nicely if I take the time to organize and nest the parts properly (an artform unto itself, I might add). If a hood is included I sometimes have to do it differently or ship it separately. Pete, these boxes hold up very well to the rigors of motor freight, provided you don't put too much weight in them, and you pad the contents properly so the parts don't poke or rub holes in the box. You also don't want the parts to rub each other. Even though the boxes now only cost me an occasional six pack, I still have costs and have to charge a nominal crating fee for the time required to go get them, wear and tear on the company vehicle (87 Toyota pickup...I told you I am not getting rich ), and the brain damage of solving the packing puzzle. I also have to purchase and maintain tape guns, tape, banding tools, and banding materials. Remember, even though this is your hobby, it is the way I feed myself. I have to make money commensurate to the time I expend...that's the way we all get paid at our jobs. That notwithstanding, the cost is a lot less than it would be otherwise. On the really big stuff (a complete VR kit for example) I still use a professional crating service to build wooden crates. I pass the cost along to the customer with no markup. This is in spite of the fact that I have to supervise the crating and ultimately spend almost as much of my time in the process as the crating guys. Before you ask: Yes I have tried to build the wooden crates myself, and no, I cannot do it any more economically than they can. On the shipping: If from the above discussion you now have the idea that crating is a pain, you should try to ship the stuff! It's not much an issue on the smaller items (hoods, fender kits) but on a VR crate where the whole thing is 3x6x7 feet high and weighs three hundred pounds, how do you get it in the back of the truck? You have to have a forklift which has to be fed (cost of purchase, fuel, maintenance...just got through replacing the fuel pump at the cost of four man-hours and a couple hundred bucks). I no longer have to shop all the carriers, fill out a bunch of BS paperwork, etc, thanks to my second discovery: Freightquote.com. Given origin, destination and the nature of the item to be shipped, they give you quotes via their website that allow you to pick the best price for the speed of shipping that you desire. This has cut the shipping cost in half! Well, if any of you are thinking about buying Dave's molds, I have just given away two very valuable secrets about the business. However, it is worth it to spread the understanding about how things work. Of course, like the old saying: "Just because I taught you everything you know doesn't mean I taught you everything I know!" I think one or more of you should buy the tooling from him...and you should buy my molds, too! Seriously, I have said many times in the past that someone should gather up all the Z car tooling they can find and become "THE Z car fiberglass guy." I know where a lot more of it is and would be happy to discuss offline putting together some deals. With a wide selection of parts and kits a single-source business employing a small number of full time people (my biggest limitation is my fundamental desire to not have employees) could not only do well financially, it could also keep the costs down for all the rest of us! To answer Jerry's question: I don't think I would be interested in purchasing the stuff myself. I'm pretty much running at my maximum capacity with the products that I am currently selling. Dave has a lot of stuff, but the price is higher than I would pay even if I were interested. It has been a long time since I have seen his molds (and a long time since I have even spoken with him), but some of it was not in great shape. Were I a prospective buyer I would make sure that the purchase would be contingent upon each mold's ability to produce good parts. Maybe you pay up front for the having a part produced and if they are good you have your first part to photograph, advertise, and sell. If not, make Dave deduct your cost (and the cost of the no good mold) from the package price. Plus, there is a lot of value in the molds, and potentially the business he could send your way. However, the molds and the customers amount to only half half the equation. The other half is the "corporate knowledge" required to make and deliver the parts. From the above discussion of one little piece of the pie, you can see that there is a lot more to it. It doesn't take too much of a stretch of the imagination to envision that you won't get much help from Dave in this area. However, if you got my stuff too.... Frank suggested that perhaps Dave would sell individual molds. One thing Dave is (God love him) : astute. There is value in each mold separately, but there is more value in all of them together than as separate items. I don't think you will get far with that idea. Well, I'd better sign off now and get back to work. The wife wants a nice dinner tonight (and she's earned it) so I need to make some money! Thanks to all for the opportunity to share some insight. I hope I haven't offended anyone with the volume or the contents. As always, I don't have a lot of time to follow the message boards, but will be happy to discuss anything offline or respond via post if someone will let me know that I need to! JW

One of my customers e-mailed this thread to me and I thought I'd throw in my $0.02, and attempt to do so without being flamed for advertising The mold for my Subtle Z (with its taller center tunnel) could easily be used to produce parts of any fiber and resin system combination. However, even though my background is aerospace, it has been a while since I have done exotic layups. Therefore, there would be a learning curve to climb before I could produce sellable parts. I could probably do this for a smaller minimum order (say three) at about the same per part price. However, there is a big difference between making a carbon fiber part that is to be painted and one that will be "visibly" carbon. Clear gel coats, or net-finish resin systems require a whole different learning curve. If any of you guys want to discuss this with me off line, I'll be happy to chat as time permits. I don't have much time to check the message boards.

Hi, Guys! Thanks for all the kind words from my customers and other folks who have talked to me in the past. I wanted to throw out a couple of things WRT cowl hoods that may be helpful. First, this is my first visit to hybridz, and I hope this post is not perceived as blatant self promotion, and as such might violate protocol. All this is for informational purposes, and as always: "I am not an expert." I have found that as soon as someone represents himself as being an expert, someone smarter comes along and makes the "expert" look like a fool! I hate for someone (especially myself) to make me look like a fool. I haven't seen Arizona Z's stuff in a long time, but as I recall his cowl hood was the more traditional design, i.e., like on the old IMSA kit. It had a very pronounced, tall center tunnel. My hood is more "subtle", thus the name. From about halfway back on the center tunnel, the top surface departs at a tangent, so as to arrive at the back edge about 1.5 inches above the stock location. This will absolutely help with ventilating the engine compartment, both at idle/stopped (with flow upward), and when in motion (where the flow reverts and goes back in due to pressure differential between top and bottom of the engine bay). However, it does not give as much clearance as a traditional IMSA-style cowl induction hood. The Subtle hood will work for mild interference problems, particularly when your engine is located way aft (a la Jags that Run). It may not solve problems with really tall aircleaners and engines that sit way forward. Other notes: the Subtle hood incorporates reinforcing that looks like the metal rib under the stock hood. It also has metal inserts with metal bolt-tabs that mimic stock location of hinge mounting, as well as an area where the stock latch can bolt on. It was prototyped using a 78 hood, so the holes for the 78 vents are already cut out. If you are mounting on an earlier car that didn't come with vents, you will need to obtain some, or you can fill the holes (I can do it for a little extra $!) One huge caveat about fiberglass hoods: Unless they are autoclave cured (i.e., under very high heat, and no manufacturer can reasonably afford to do this) they will always exhibit some post cure creep, particularly when exposed to the heat radiating/convecting off the engine. I recommend installing small aluminum angle brackets under two or four of the fender mounting bolts to help prevent the hood from sagging with age. Also, removing the stock springs will help reduce the tension on the fiberglass. Just use the prop rod to hold the hood up. Hope this was informative!