Firion__13

Well it kinda pains me to see this all put on hold... on a lighter note, me and my buddies were all talking engines the other night after the races here. i have like 3 friends who race dirt circle track, modify class, and late models. anyway. i ask them if they have ever heard of a 180* crank, flatcrank, single plane crank, all of them shook there heads and looked at me like i was talking about snipe huntin then by buddy justin speaks up and says oh yeah i do. your talking about those high revving screaming motors right? he continued by saying yeah dude. like 15 years ago my dad built a 358 sbc with a billet cam for his late model. they only ran it for like 3 weekends but it was a screamer. didnt have much for power at low rpm but once it hit about 8 it wanted to take off. he also said he thought the cam was made far too wild. get this HE STILL HAS THE CRANK!!!! no idea where the cam is but no matter since it was so wild. so i may be buyin it soon not to use but just to own and possibly sell down the road. they said it has been sitting for years. i talked to his dad and asked why they didnt just get another cam and try to get one for the rpms he was gonna run and he said actually they paid for 3 cams all 1500 a piece back in the day. and all of them were too wild he said he didnt know what they were doing wrong but it just wasnt working out. these guys have been racing almost 30 years. so i asked if the harmonics caused any problems he said no and he said it was a concern they thought that the main caps were gonna crack or something but it would run 25 laps and just sing at 8k. honestly if i was going to build one. it would be quite small cubic inch wise. maybe a chevy 302. it wouldnt be a powerhouse by any means, but sure would scream.

Hers is an 03, has 227,xxx it had quite a few when she bought it. now it seems like everything is breaking, or going out on it. i have done what i can on it that i could actually fix myself. i told her i hope the motor just blows and if she really wants to keep it there is a small block chevy in the shop that could go in it that i could work on all day long.

Hey guys, get ready for a bad update. My wife and i have run into some bad bills. My wife has a cadillac cts, that is kind of becoming a lemon. i told her its time to sell it, cuz she can't even drive it in nebraska winters anyway. she loves her cts like i lover my z. she said she would only sell it if i sold my z. so i need your opinions guys. what should i do? should i keep throwing 2-3000 at her car almost every year, or should i bite the bullet and sell my first love. i have almost had to sell it before for the same reason. if i sell my z im still going to build the 302. i know i won't have a car for it, but i know eventually i will. I have a crappy s13 i could throw it in. i just don't know. I hate her car so much that i actually want to sell mine just to never see it again. I keep telling her for that ammount of money we pay in repairs each year, we could easily have a brand new car.

I have really been thinking about a t56 alot lately, but i gotta get my motor built first.

HAppy new year. time to get used to 2010. i still havelnt heard back from the ebay guy yet. hopefully he will check his messages after new years.

Thanks guys. and thanks for the support GRUMPZ Vette, That build you posted at the bottom is nuts. Its one of those "if i was a millionaire, i would" builds. haha. I sent a message to the guy on ebay that builds those heads and asked him if he could build a set of dart 200cc for me with all the bells and whistles of the 230s he advertises. He hasn't got back to me yet, but i'll let you know when i do. On a different note, my race buddy justin who races dirt track late model told me not to get my block decked yet. He said this has never happened to him but he has heard of it happening. He said they always bring in their whole rotating assembly installed into the block so that measurements can be taken instead of just going on calculations on paper alone. He said there has been times some pistons are at perfect 0 and the one at the opposite end will be 3 thousanths off. So this way would ensure that all get decked to perfect 0. Anybody else ever experienced this?

Thanks guys, what about heads?

Ok ok ok guys... Vette i value your insight because you know what you are talking about you have built motors and you know what works and what doesn't. Do have have any recomendations on a cam that is for an 8000rpm redline something thats power range is 5000 to 8000? Remember guys im not building this to be the fastest around, and im not trying to build it cheaply. so far all ive got mapped out is the bottom end... I decided today im gonna go with aluminum heads, and push it up to 11:1 compression. I said to my self,"self your not really building a street motor, why not go as far as pump gas allows?" I really need help picking a choosing what to do with my valvetrain, and heads. Im going for an 8k redline. Here is what i got picked out for the bottom end so far. Crank- Eagle 4340 ESP Ultra-light #4348300057fw 3.00in storke and 1.889 rod mains Rods- Eagle 6.250 H beams #CRS6250HJ (honda) 1.889 mains. We use those small mains on all the race car motors we put together. I know the smaller mains means less longevity, but its only gonna get driven once a weekend or less. Also this combo will have a 13.89 degree rod angle which too i have been told will drop the longevity. The rod ratio is 2.08:1 and weight 540 grams. Pistons- SRP Professional #271059 Compression ht 1.260 Dome vol 11cc Bore 4.030 Weight 442 grams clevite berrings, ARP hardware, and a moroso oil pan. So anyone got any ideas on heads and valvetrain parts?

Hmmmm... tell me more

Thanks vette. mine are pretty much all done. i bought them ported and polished, and they have the big valves. they are actually from a 327. they are bare at the moment though.

Doc you don't happen to know the stock cc intake size of the double hump heads do you?

thats true... but the SCCA motors is what im kinda baseing mine off of. they really didn't have much for torque. and they didn't make much for power till 5500. they were'nt a drag car thats for sure. The build sheet in my book says... RPM HP TQ 5500 364 348 6000 412 361 6500 447 362 7000 475 356 7500 483 338 8000 501 329 They were knows for being sluggish at low rpm.

I have been looking at these for a long time. He has alway got a set on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dart-Pro1-Platinum-230cc-Aluminum-SBC-Heads-L-K-Roller_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45ebc06690QQitemZ300307998352QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

i was considering that... but i already have the th400, and its already mounted up in the car.

Thinkin about dart 230s. for now pry just double humps cuz i already have a set. they just need rebuilt.

Bleakdragonmage i chose the th400 for its duribility, cheapness, and wide range of parts. The plan someday is to have a t56 in it. but for right now it has the th400 my wife just got me a pro ratchet from b&m and im looking to get a fully manual reverse styled valve body for it. And as far as power goals id be happy with something over 350hp maybe 400... pry 400 which with parts im using can be easliy achieved. I spoke to a guy the other day that bought a z28 for his first car and he told me they use to do every small mod they could to these motor in SCCA. Polishing the rod and the exterior of the crank so they would shed oil weight quickly, de-bur and polish the oil valley even. I have a book that mentions some of this but it really only talked about de-burring the oil valley not polishing it. My redline i would like to be 8k, which is the redline in the book i have of the 501hp SCCA motor build they do. For anyone wondering about the book it is called Musclecar & hi-po Engines Chevy 302 & 327. There is a lot of good information in this book, on how to get easy hp out of a 302, what cams work best, and heads too.

Ohhhh. i see what your saying now. thank you for your insite.

My friends dad races dirt track late model, and he has a 358 in his car. But its like an all out race motor. He and his sponsers Have 12grand just in the bottom end. I i think thats pretty ridiculous. He only races at 3 tracks in the state. seems like a lot of money to me for not racing some more presigious places, but hey its not my money. lol. I know the block was quite a bit its a DART block. This is what i got figured out so far for bottom end parts Eagle crank, eagle h beams 6.250, and JE SRP Professional pistions with a 1.260. with a 3.00 inch stroke that will give me 0.015 inch of clearance below deck. I have been involved mainly in the assembly of race motors not so much the piecing of them together. I have 3 friends that race dirt circle track, and i have been on their pit crew off and on since i was about 15. Every motor i have ever built with them we have always had a minimum of .015 inch below deck for the expansion under hard rpm loads. Atleast thats what i was always told. Is this wrong? we have never broken anthing by doing this? What do you mean by this DR. HUNT?

Merry christmas hybrid z folk! Look what my wife bought me for christmas!!! Wahoo click the attachment

HarrisonTX, first i would like to thank you for what you are doing for our country. My buddy Joe Whitely is in afganistan right now but is normally stationed at fort hood. He Is big into OFF ROADING, and isn't much of a motor guy but he is getting there. Again Thank you for what you are doing. And Your motor sounds sweet. you gotta let me know how it turns out. Mine will pry take me over a year to build, cuz all the parts im going with are some of the best. My bottom end alone is around 2 grand and thats without berrings wrist pins main caps, and what not. im not really building a motor for the street. It will be a weekend warrior of sorts. Thanks for your support! Paul i have been following that thred since you started it! I see you got your crank. I seriously spent like 5 min just stareing and drooling at the pics...my wife walks past and is like stop looking at your motor porn! haha. Its gonna be awesome. And who cares how rediculas of idea it is. Its a lot of fun to follow and learn just how much i, myself didn't know about 180* motors. I can't wait to see more.

Thank you paul, couldn't have said it better myself. And Pyro i totally understand what you are saying. I used to have an 86 camaro with a 406, and it was a monster. And it had way more power than i wanted. I didn't hate the motor for that. The whole reason i want to build a 302 is because i don't know how many times i have been to a car show. and if you see a SBC in your mind don't you automatically assume its a 350? Or if someone says they have some sort of GM project car how many times have you heard 350, or 400, 0r 327. Its not that i dislike these motors, its just when i am asked i want to have something they wouldn't expect. Kinda like swapping a SBC or SBf into a Z. I want something different, than the everyday built up 350. I chose the 302 because from the factory it was a screamer. Because it was exclusive to my favorite muscle car. And because it It was something that you just don't see or hear everyday. Here let me show you what im talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ajVMgVp4s8 Or of yout not much of a dyno guy here is a z28 with a 302 in action against cars it was built to fight it out with The end is the best part. Paul i would love to throw a t56 behind it. but for right now im gonna build the motor and see how it feels with the th400. A manual would be so much more fun though. The Z28s came with a muncie.

OK here we go. I have had my car on here since september 6th, 2007 and since the swap it has only gone about 50 miles. As long as its going to take me to save up and build this motor i'll be able to drive it alot more and hopefully work out any kinks. And for anyone new to hybrid swaps, there are always kinks, no matter how much you plan. ok first lets start with a history lesson. I have studied day and night even in my college classes . After i installed the turbo400 i realized i killed my top speed significantly, and having a near bone stock 350 in the car i couldn't get any more rpms out of it before things were going to start coming apart. my first thought was you need to build a 327, they were little screamers, but something was turning me off to them, and im not really sure. just wasn't the motor i was looking to build. And then i stumbled on the Chevy 302. Some of you may say? what? you mean ford 302 right? Nope the Chevy 302. The chevy 302 made its debut in 1967 exclusively for the z28 camaro. It was build for SCCA racing and back then the cubic inch limit was 305. Ford was destroying any and all competition with the mustang. Meanwhile gm was hard at work building a mini monster that from the factory would turn 7000rpm and make 501hp as a race motor. from the factory they came with 290 hp @ 5800 rpm and 290 lb. ft of torque at 4200 rpm. they ran 11:1 compression from the factory with the famous double hump heads. This was a base motor. from there nearly every part and every trick in the book was done to squeeze some ponys out of this little screamer. Why did they scream? The run a 3.00 stroke. I have seen a few build ones on youtube and other places, and they never seem to dissapoint. 1969 would be the last year you could get a 302 in a z28, and would never be offered as a factory motor again. Now as i am typing this my block is at the maching shop, getting boiled and cleaned, bored, and getting new cam bearrings, to begin this build. I honestly don't have a hp rating in mind i want to reach. not 500 i can tell you that. thats a little much even for me. Here is the thing. you can build a 302 out of a 350 block they share the 4.00 bore, and you can get medium journal cranks. There are few piston makers that make pistons for 302 applications pry due to the lack of people wanting to build them since they were only made for 4 years, racing production stopped in 1970. The pistons you can get have huge domes and a large compression height to make up for the short stroke, all 302s used 5.7 in. rods. This makes the pistons extremely heavy. most are well over 500 grams. to us race car motor guys thats a lot. But thank god there is another route. Now im pretty much building a race motor for weekend events. so longevity is not a huge issue . because it will not be drivin a huge ammount. With the stock 9.025 deck height, a 3.00 stroke, and 6.25 in. rods, and pistons with a 1.260 compression height and 11cc domes. Thats dialing in around 10.69:1 with 64cc head chambers. not too bad for pump gas. i could always get aluminum heads and mill them down to get a perfect 11:1 if i really wanted to squezze everything i could out of it. There is lots and lots i have not even touched on yet. but my wife is screaming at me to get off hybridz and come to bed. So I will continue this tomarrow. If you have any questions, or corrections to make, please feel free.

Man that is cool. Im building a custom chevy 302 for my z32 right now. This makes me want to do this. Im curious. what did it set you back? gosh i cant quit drooling!

Thanks. Ha yeah i know how that goes. looking forward to your documentation.

thanks dan. hows yours coming. can i get a link to yours i was looking for it the other day. have you done anything since your head gasket went out on the dyno?