240zdan
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Posts posted by 240zdan
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Hi everyone.
So ! im looking for a cell well ( ive only really looked into ATL's but if anyone has any other suggestions, speak up!) to fit into my spare tire well. i was originally going to cut the spare well out but decided against it, id like to keep the metal in tact for the most part.
Has anyone been able to use the original fuel door with a filler neck to connect it to a cell well?
I've seen some pictures before but cant seem to find them anymore. I'm not super thrilled about having to pop my trunk hatch and filling up inside the car, plus i dont want the car to smell like gas if i decide to get clumsy during fill up.
i was going to use my stock tank, but would like to run dual exhausts, so having a cell well and having it function like stock during fill up would work perfect. plus i threw away my stock 280z tank when i moved... *facepalm* it was rusted anyway, oh well.
if anyones seen this or done this before, or have any experiences please let me know! thanks!
fyi - going into a 75 280z w/LSx. mostly going to be a cruiser but may have some drag/auto-X days in it.
Either way you do it, wont turn out pretty. Youll have to run the hose through the interior of the car losing your trunk space.
Im not sure what kind of fuel cell will fit in your spare tire well. Cutting out the well is pretty much unavoidable.
Me personally, I would try to install a RX7 tank or Jeep tank. Or make a custom aluminum tank with the fuel fill on the side outside of the vehicle.
Stay away from those top fill cheap "fuel cells", only install a certified fuel cell if you're running a track that requires it.
http://lainefamily.com/240Z_V8_Conversion_files/240Z_Conversion_Fuel_System.htm
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Running a .82. The GTX3576r is a great turbo, and it really needs the .82 to let that compressor wheel do its job. The GTX compressor wheel really only is more efficient at higher pressure ratios, and at the pressure ratios it becomes efficent a .63 will be choking it slightly. The GTX will not spool faster than a standard cast wheel of the same size. In fact I found it spools even slower. Parts of the reason Garret came out with the GTX3576R is because the GTX 76mm wheel is more suited to a GT35 turbine since its ability to flow so much air at higher PRs is there. The GTX3071R is the one to get if youre looking to make lower power but quicker spool. Both GTX3582 and GTX3076 are not a good choice IMO.
I prefer to run larger ar turbine housings and play with the compressor wheel size to determine my spool/ability to make topend power. Right now I am running a PTE 5830 with .82AR.
I have tried the PTE 6235r, PTE 5830r, GTX3582R, and GTX 3576R. The GTX 3576R destroyed the 3582r in every way possible and just felt way better. The GTX wheels work really good at higher boost but I found alot more response with a standard 6 blade splitter wheel, especially at lower sub 20psi boost levels. All turbos were running .82AR and the current one is a 5830r with .82 which spools very very quickly and doesnt die up top (~450hp)
Another turbo to consider is the SPA, using a 7 blade wheel which offers very nice response. The PTE has shifted to 7 blades now IIRC as well. EFR turbos are 7 blade, along with most newer OEM Holsets. Tells you something.
This is on a 2.6L RB but I really think it would apply to the L series as well. Leave the .63 for the honda guys. Drive pressure is never a good thing on our motors and is a band aid fix for quicker spool. You want a free flowing exhaust housing/turbine wheel for your displacement and the smallest yet most efficient compressor wheel for your power goals for the ultimate package. Just remember you cont compare a 58/76mm 11 blade gtx to a 58/76 7 or 6 blade. The design is completley different and the GTX wont spool the same as say a 6 or 7 blade yet make more power from my opinion/experience.
In the end, dont expect the 11 blade GTX to work any magic on your motor, it has one purpose and that is to be efficient at HIGH boost. This is why EVO guys love them. Combined with E85 they have a potent turbo in a small package. Its also a very very quiet charger. Might be a good thing if youre into stealth.
All said and done the GTX wheel design was originally made for an OE diesel application where high efficiency at high PRs and noise was a concern, keep that in mind when spending the 3k on one. -
Here's some Technical Data from Pegasus Racing on Micron sizing required for different systems ( Oil and fuel ) which confirms what 240Dan has been saying
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/document.asp?DocID=TECH00100
It is interesting that the fuel safe sock is rated at 31 Microns, which is pretty small. A lot of surface area though.
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=7297
After much research I managed to find some data on the Fram G3 Micron size. Apparently it filters down to 20 Microns. That size combined, with the small media surface area is what was probably causing the pump whine. 240Dan correctly pointed this out and I was wondering the same thing way back in Post # 6:
Aeromotive #12304 is recommended to be used as a fuel pump pre-filter and filters down to 100 Microns. It also has 60 sq inches of filter materiel, which is very important.
http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/fuel-filtration/
So that answers my question from Post #6. The Fram G3 used in front of a stock Nissan Roller vane pump, " probably " works OK as many people seem to have used it with no issue on Fuel Injected Z cars. But when you put a G3 in front of a High Performance Gerotor ( Walpro 255, Bosch 044 etc ) or Ceramic Vane pump it likely causes too much restriction and causes pump cavitation after a while.
Atlantic Z Car was one of the sites originally recommending the Fram G3 to be used as a pre-filter ahead of the Fuel Pump. I'm switching mine out for an Aeromotive SS Mesh filter...
100% agree with this.
Seeing as the OP has gone with a lift pump tp force fuel into the walbro, and the lift pump now has a prefilter, I suspect he will have a reliable and robust fuel system.
Some may hate the hassle of running two pumps, but if you want to keep your tank OEM and unmodified its the only way to go.
A walbro inline with low micron paper fram that has to pull UP on top of that is a big nono. these walbros almost need a boost on the inlet to work the way they should.
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Integrated Engineering makes some nice Surge Tanks for both single and dual pumps. They are for Bosch 044 and AEM 380 pumps. Unfortunately I don't think they fit Walpro 255 pumps. I believe the Walpro 255 is a slightly smaller Diameter than the Bosch pumps.
Edit: Having problems with direct link. Look under Products/Fueling Components/Surge Tanks
http://www.performancebyie.com/
yeah that setup is nice. Keeps the pump surrounded with fuel and helps with cooling too. Less space required as well.
Ideally if I had my spare tire well Id have mounted the carter externally to the frame rail and that surge tank/pump inside the spare tire well.
I pondered the idea of installing this but the external walbro inline works well for me and was a cheaper option.
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Very NICE! Just gota make an aluminum cover for it and dynamit it really well to keep noise out. My carter I can barely hear but the walbro does whine a bit. That fuel system will do very well with autox/slick tires and will help to ease the load on the walbro. Post pics of the completed install.
You may have to relocate the top fitting to the side to make everything clear?
Youll be happy with it in the end. Those walbros just arent meant to draw fuel up from the tank and need a little help from a low psi high volume pump like the carter which is a workhorse, then I find they work extremely well.
One issue I see though will be fuel filter maintenance. When you remove the fuel filter you will have tons of fuel spilling in your spare tire well. It may be a good idea to install the filter outside of the vehicle. Alternatively you could install a union fitting between the fuel filter and tank outside of the vehicle and drain the fuel from your surge system that way before removing and inspecting the filter. I try to clean mine every few months or so and always find a bit of junk in there.
One more thign I forgot to mention is make sure the fuel return line going from surge tank back into tank is large and unrestricted. You want the fuel to be able to escape back into the tank from the surge tank with as little restriction to promotote fresh fuel entering it from the carter. This will help keep fuel temps in the surge tank under control. A fuel tank with 1/3 or higher helps alot too.
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240zdan, I like your set up. There does seem like a lot of room with that spare tire wheel well gone.
Is a surge tank required for a lift pump --> walbro pump system?
Thanks. I spent a while researching and designing it. So far I am very happy. I can slide the car, brake hard, accelerate, all with the tank on E on rs3 tires pushing it to the limits and zero pump surge. One of the best mods I did to the car. If I had to put slicks on the car and go on a road course the fuel system woudl be the last thing on my mind. I know its up to the task.
To answer your question: Yes the lift pump pulls fuel out of the main tank and circulates it through the surge tank. Since the lift pump is designed to pull fuel up it does the magority of the work. The carter floods the surge tank. Additionally the excess fuel from the efi system returns back to the surge tank. This means means the surge tank is ALWAYS full (if not under slight pressure). That means the walbro is forced to take in fuel from the inlet. It runs quiet, consistent, and draws less amps. It doesnt matter how hard you corner, the 4l tank is walys ready to give the walbro what it needs since it has two sources, the carter and the return from the efi.
If the efi pump fails, the motor will not start/run. If the carter pump fails, the efi pump will suck the surge tank dry until it runs out of fuel. Neither is likely to blow the motor.
I much prefer a setup like this to a sump/fuel cell as it retains factory fuel tank/fuel fill/fuel guage. It has been dead reliable since the day I installed it, and I swear my walbro is 3x quieter, even under heat.
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Sure, let's see some evidence from Audi about a pre-filter. Not a strainer, with big holes, but a filter for small particles. I've seen the in-tank plastic screens used on the in-tank pumps. Not the same as that G3 paper filter.
The basic point is understand how the pump works and what it needs. You've just gone a bit hyperbolic in your recommendations. And a lot of these guys are using pumps with flow rates much higher than they need. What L6 out there needs 255 LPH? That's over twice what the stock pump produced. It's just not needed. Pretty sure that Nissan used the same fuel pump for NA and turbo engines.
No offense to anybody out there using the 255 pump. But it seems to lead to more problems than it's worth.
Absolutley zero problems with mine.
OP you shoudl consider what I did. You dont need to hack up your floor you could probably get away with installing the stuff in ur spare tirewell. Then your fuel system will be rock solid and surge free!
http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/124196-my-custom-fuel-setup/
I used this type of prefilter
http://pitstopusa.com/i-22954486-edelbrock-replacement-fuel-filter-blue-anodized-aluminum.html
I do not remeber the microns, but from my reseach you cannot go to small as the inlet of the walbro needs FLOW. You only want to keep major contamination out at best. If you restrict the inlet with a paper filter you will get major cavitation (from my experience) and thats why you are losing pressure. A tank clean may be a good idea as well though. If you're passing rust through your fuel system your filters/pump and injectors will all eventually clog.
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Holy crap. All the poor guy has to do is put a screen mesh type prefilter from edelbrock or aeromotive (which I have been running for years, my walbros lasted my 8 years and still going) so he can enjoy his car.
You guys should start your own thread and argue there.
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Carter 4594 works well as a lift pump to get the walbro the fuel flow it needs. I have one on my car feeding into a 4l surge tank, then a walbro picks fuel out of the surge tank. Its an extremely effective setup and I get no fuel starvation under high Gs even with an empty tank.
I agree with ditching the prefilter all together. Shouldn't need one in this scenario. You definetley want-8 inlet, and try to ditch any bends in the lines/fittings if you can.
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Is there any paticular reason you want the fuel cell? I originally installed a RCI "fuel cell" into my car, only to remove it and put the stock tank back in along with a surge tank and two pumps. You could easil fit a surge tank in the spare tire location and cover it with a piece of aluminum. This way you dont have to hack up your floor and you will have a fuel system that will work under extreme Gs.
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nice project. what type of "fuel cell" are you putting in the car, and will it fill from the factory location?
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thats not right, walbros do whine when they get loud but your fuel pressure dropping to zero means theres an obstruction on the inlet/outlet somewhere, or perhaps a voltage loss? need to do more diag
EDIT: I just watched your video. That clear prefilter is definetley causing it. You need a mesh screen type prefilter. No paper or brass. Try to minimize the fittings with bends and run the largest line you can to it.
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its a steal. buy it whether you plan on restoring it or not
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I have my limiter set to 7600 and hit it occasionally, but avoid it if possible. I usually rev to 7000 as my turbo (gt30r) runs out of steam above that. 500hp is easily doable with 7000-7200rpms on a RB.
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Yeah for sure. I think under 500hp and keeping the revs reasonable you will never have an issue. Also a good crank damper helps, alot of these motors have worn out dampers which will make matters worse.
Its just a common misconception that getting a collar fitted or running a wide drive crank will fix the issue. I tend to disagree.
Also the Reimax gearset I installed used the OEM case which uses thicker gears. Alot of the guys having issues are running N1 pumps which use sintered metal gears that are thinner than OEM, making matters worse.
I think with a billet OEM style gearset its a pretty reliable setup for a sub 500hp street driven RB. Whether its worth it to "upgrade" to a wide drive.... I would say no. I think the billet gear will have no issues coping with either wide or flat drive. I will pull mine out in 5 years and let you guys know how it looks, haha.
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They started out with a narrow drive, then changed to wide.
I have a suspicion Nissan went with a narrow drive in 1988 as they were having oil pump gear breakage issues from the start. This was an effort on their part to solve it. Perhaps their theory was the less drive contact on the gear, the less damage to the gear, the longer itll hold together?
Here is a full with driven cracked oil pump.
As you can see, contact is still uneven due to crank deflection from higher rpms. There is just more damage done by a flawed one contact drive system. The full width drive isnt really helping anything other than helping to spread the impact along nearly the entire width of the gear. You can see on top of the contact patch an indentation, this clearly indicates crank nose whip or crank deflection. Or perhaps the gear was worn its pump case.
So the reality is, a full width drive isnt much different than a narrow drive under extreme conditions, and both could potentially fail.
Some may argue the full width drive spreads the load against the entire gear which makes things better. But in my opinion it isn't the load that causes failure, its the impact.
Nissan didn't fix the issue by going full width drive, it may have made it better, but it didnt fix it.
The ultimate solution is spline driven gears, or run billet gears in standard pump and just keep an eye on them say every 5 years. Whether its full or narrow drive IMO doesnt matter. I didnt want to pull the motor out, pull the crank out, machine it and press on a collar (which of them are made too tight to the gear anyways). I feel like the oil drive system is doomed regardless, and if I am going to do anything it will be spline driven gears. For now what I have works, and when I pulled out my OEM gear after 7 years of hard use it looked fine aside from a bit of contact wear.
Honestley I think the only guys having issues are drifters and people who peg the limiter all day.
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The narrowed crank drive doesn't have much to do with this post. There are heaps on info on this subject online, everyone has their own opinion.
FWIW I stuck with the narrow crank drive when I upgraded to billet gears, for a few reasons. Don't think that nissan didnt narrow the crank drive for a reason, and the wide crank drive is not a solution by any means. Some people call the narrow crank drive an engineering error... please... you really think a company thats capable of producing the r32 gtr would narrow an oil pump drive on the crank for no reason? Yes, later model r32s and r33/r34 has wide drives, but did it fix anything? I have heard of oil pumps shattering with both. In most cases, (rare) they usually have one thing in common: line boring the block. Take a minute to figure out whats happening.
Anyways, you're opening up a whole new can of worms here, if you'd like then make a new post about crank drives and Ill chime in. Im warning people about backing plate screws coming loose.
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First of let me tell you that I have had low oil pressure issues with my Rb26dett 2 years after doing the swap. Learn from my mistakes/experience.
If you swapped a RB into your Z the first thing you should do is install an oil pressure gauge. I chose a mechanical gauge with braided oil pressure line.
Upon warmup I was getting lower oil pressure than usual. After 4 years my oil pressure was around 58 psi at redline. I noticed a steady drop every year of trashing on the car. It seemed every year my peak oil pressure would drop. After a while I decided to drop the pan and check out whats going on.
This illustration depicts exactly what I found (not my engine, but you get the idea)
As the screws got looser, so did the oil pressure. While I was at it, I decided to upgrade to Reimax billet oil pump gears.
http://www.rhdjapan.com/reimax-oil-pump-gear-kit-nissan-bnr32-bcnr33-bnr34.html
Im making this post to raise awareness. If you don't have an oil pressure guage on your swap, get one NOW and make sure its a reliable guage. Next, determine if you had the same issue as I did. A little bit of Loctite goes a long way. The new gears arent necessary but for the $$ the billet vs sintered metal is a no brainer. Post up your oil pressure values if you wish, I was paranoid about my mine for the last 3 years, babied the motor. With the new gearset and loctite on the screws I have 80 psi at 5k+. She gets the beating she deserves now nonetheless
. Having said that, a bit of decay at higher revs is somewhat normal from what I've gathered. But so long as that gauge is pegged around the 80 psi mark Im happy.Happy motoring
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By the time you purchase quality rod ends your nearing the cost of the TTT parts.
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Im going to guess its at 5 degrees
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When you're dealing with parts like engine mounts, intercoolers, piping and oil pans, then CXracing is fine. But on something like a suspension part I refuse to have chinese parts on my vehicle.
Just from looking at the picture you can tell they use cheap rodends that will wear out over time, probably made of a low grade metal which coudl potentially snap, along with the bends of the bracket. Those look awful, it looks like the nut wont even seat on a flat surface. I question the fasteners as well. Chinese crap usually doesn't come with proper graded fasteners.
The question is whether or not the 1-200 savings are worth the risk to you. I have over 20k in my Z so I wont sweat about a few hundred dollars.
And I can almost guarantee you they are made in China, contact them and ask
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New hotwheels model right here. Yikes. If I saw it driving down the road I would laugh! But to each his own.
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a bit big... looks cartoony. Looks ok, but ruins the balance of the car. IMO they need 16s, 17s MAX, thats with flares. That photo looks photoshopped BTW. Have anymore pics?
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Do you plan on tweaking your caster with adjustable TC rods rods? Mine at 5 degrees rubs slightly, but I live with it as the stability feels amazing. Something to keep in mind.
All said and done the GTX wheel design was originally made for an OE diesel application where high efficiency at high PRs and noise was a concern, keep that in mind when spending the 3k on one.
. Having said that, a bit of decay at higher revs is somewhat normal from what I've gathered. But so long as that gauge is pegged around the 80 psi mark Im happy.
upgrading to LS coils?
in Nissan RB Forum
Posted
Its definetley the coil packs. They stock Nissan coil packs fail after 20+years and short out to the engine block. You can usually see this by removing the coil cover and going for a good drive at night, pull over in a dark spot and you will see the coils arc.
I personally went with splitfires as I found a set used for cheap. No more issues since. I also vented my coil cover.
I think LS coils would be fine heatwise or even brand new OEM nissan coils woudl last a while. I haven't researched the cheap yellow coilpacks on ebay.