letitsnow Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) I'm looking to do a ground control style coilover setup in the near future. I'm having a difficult time choosing dampers. I'd like to run springs in the 200-220 lb/in range. The car will be used for some autocross and track days, but mostly street driving. I'm absolutely alright with sectioning the struts and other fabrication, I currently have access to a full machine shop after work and welding stuff at home. I've been considering the bilstein's used in the sticky(mk1 rabbit, correct?), illuminas, or tokico blues. I'm really not sure how these different dampers will behave with these springs and my intended uses, I'd appreciate any advice. Edited May 12, 2011 by letitsnow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted May 14, 2011 Author Share Posted May 14, 2011 The strut thread has about 14 conversations, no clear topic or direction, but reading through it several times, it seems like most guys are running revalved bilsteins with 300-350lb/in springs on dedicated racecars. I've not found a useful dyno chart of the factory valving, I found one, but the velocity increments are pretty huge. I can't find a single dyno for an illumina (full length or sectioned). There was a comparison of various civic shocks posted in that thread, it appears that the bilsteins(for a civic) are very similar to single adjustable konis on 2. Are these valvings even remotely similar to a Z? I might just go with the mr2 illuminas and sectioned struts if nobody has any input on using the factory valved bilsteins. They are known to work pretty well already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I wouldn't try to use Bilsteins off of a different car compare with the Z struts. I would think that the stock valving would do great with 200 in/lb springs. The revalve that everyone is getting isn't changing things a whole lot. Specs are in that thread, but I seem to remember the stock valving was something like 72/256, and the revalve is 100/300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted May 14, 2011 Author Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) Yeah, those numbers sound pretty close to what I've found elsewhere. This is some dyno data I found, the pic is huge. The revalve is 100/300. My main worry is that I'd be over damping the 200lb springs to the point of unnecessary harshness or packing down over bumpy sections of road. I doubt I'd be able to do anything useful with the adjustability of the tokicos, my time would be better spent learning to drive instead of fiddling with everything. Edited May 14, 2011 by letitsnow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 (edited) I don't mean to continually bump my thread, but I've been doing a LOT of reading and new questions are coming to mind. I did a little research on the original application, the common not-retarded-low aftermarket mk1 springs are in the 150-250lb range, which gives me another data point on how these should work for me. The linear valving does make me wonder how they will ride, has anyone other than JustinOlsen used the 3000gt 36mm piston inserts? Did he ever get them fully installed even? I don't really want to revalve, but does anyone have any experience with the 'slightly digressive' 30mm piston? Edited May 15, 2011 by letitsnow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) I decided to go for the bilsteins, I'll report on what I think of them when I get it together. I went with 200F/225R spring rates. Edited May 19, 2011 by letitsnow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 letitsnow, Hopefully you'll be happy, I'm running 275f/250r and based on my very limited driving and even more limited driving skill, they run pretty nicely. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 I hope they work too. I've got a question for you, in your FAQ you list 2x thrust bearing washers, I'm assuming you meant 4, 2 for each. Or did you use the drill bushing as the lower race? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Urgh, hard questions. I used exactly whats in the pictures, which from reviewing them, I think is just 2 thrust washers. I'm not totally sure I understand your quesion though? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 Did you arrange them, from bottom to top: drill bushing-thrust washer-bearing-thrust washer or drill bushing-bearing-thrust washer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) I believe its the first one you describe. I put them together left-to-right as they are in this picture: So its drill bushing, then the coil over top slides over that, then thrust washer (is sitting on top of the coil over top in that picture), another washer, bearing, washer. I may have added more washers until the coil over top clears the strut top. Does that help or hinder? Dave Edited May 19, 2011 by thehelix112 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 I think it helps, I'll guess I'll see when I've got parts in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Yeah it's pretty obvious once you see it. Good luck, and if you are following that FAQ/Guide thingo, please let me know what is confusing/annoying so we can make it better. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 (edited) Yup, I'll post any difficulties I have and my fixes. The way you mounted your threaded sleeve, can you raise the car back up to near stock height? If not, how much lower is it? Edited May 21, 2011 by letitsnow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I'm sorry dude, I don't know off the top of my head. I didn't keep very good (any) records of what I did beyond what's in that article, but I think I was shooting for a 1.5-2" drop in static ride height. The static height controlled by the length of the shock insert (Bilstein) and the amount of pre-load applied to the spring. So even if you got it back up close to where it was you might need a fair bit of preload on the spring to do it. Least I think that's correct. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 I'll have to do some measuring when I get it apart then, I'd like to go 1-1.5" lower in the back and 2-2.5" in the front. I'm pretty sure my front is sitting much higher now that I got rid of the massive bumper. I've started to get some parts in and I'm looking at the front steering bearing. Why did you go with the small torrington bearing instead of the factory bearing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I think the std bearing's ID was too big so the coil over top was actually sitting inside of it, putting all the weight on the corner of the bearing and a single point of soft alu in the coil over top. It's also very tall, and there is limited thread engagement of the shock insert into the strut top, and I wanted enough that the lock nut would at least hook a little bit. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 I still don't have the dampers, tomorrow or thursday they should be here. Hopefully I can figure out a way to use the stock bearing, I'm not too fond of the needle bearing setup, honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Fair enough. I havenlt done enough driving on them to be able to comment very well, but they seem ok thus far. Why don't you like them? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 It looks like the drill bushing clamps the bearing together. IMO, the bearing should not be clamped by the shaft, that will bind the bearing and make it not much better than a spacer. The bearing should float with the spring hat and only see load from the spring, that is how the factory did it with the big ball bearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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