joa_taste Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Hey im pretty new here to the forums but i've always liked the way the old datsuns looked Interested in the sr20 swap in my 240z just wondering is there any fabrication needed for the gas tank since im going from carb to fuel injected? Thanx is there a direct link to someones build so i can just look at what they did so i won't have any dumb questions in the future hahah thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt K Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Nope. The early Z's had a rear mounted external low pressure electric fuel pump, in addition to the engine mounted mechanical fuel pump (to avoid vapor lock). What may be an issue is the small diameter of the fuel lines, and putting a larger electric fuel pump with the old wiring. There will be a lot more issue than just the fuel system though...If you have the coin, I'd say take your car to Vildini Motorsports & have them do it all for you, as that's what they specialize in (SR swapped Z's). McKinney Motorsports also has most of the items (engine cradle/mounts, transmission mount) needed to do this swap. Other issues will be engine wiring, gauges, cutting the driveshaft to fit, exhaust, intercooler/piping, gearing, possibly needing to reinforce the chassis...a lot more entailed than you may think, if you'd never done a swap like this before. There's a lot more work involved than swapping it into a 240SX! I'm accumulating all the stuff to swap my S13 blacktop into my '78 280Z. I'm already at $4K without any exhaust, fuel system, wiring, and cooling system mods. I've got a nice SR with harness & trans, slightly better turbo, header, better intake manifold, clutch setup, custom tuned ECU, Z32 mafs, intercooler & piping, driveshaft, mounts. I'm going to replace my floor pans & frame rails prior to doing the swap, so I don't have to mess with it in the future, or have any chassis issues. I'll also be swapping my 3.54 R200 for a 4.10 R200, as the stock rear end gearing on an SR-equipped 5-speed car is 4.08, and I want to get the most from my setup. One buddy on here ran his old R180 with 3.37 gears with his SR swap, and it was WAY too little gear for the SR...got great mileage, but took forever to shift. My brother has 3.70 gears with his SR swapped ZX, which is slightly better, but still not right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joa_taste Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 Thank you for the fast reply 4000 with all the work done yourself or is that with someone elses labor included? even if that's without labor it's so much better than a 1jz swap in an sc300 lol, you know how much i was quoted for that swap into my sc300 im looking at doing a str8 bone stock sr redtop from my buddies garage in vegas I knew new lines was going to be called for with a walbro but wasn't sure on the tank. not too much fabrication is needed on this after you get those mckinney mounts? i can't really find a thread to see what's needed for this im just debating on selling the sc300 and spend the money i get for the swap since i already have a 240z shell thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt K Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 $4k is what I have ONLY into parts at this point. Anyone can lie & tell you it can be done for less, and it can...but you get what you pay for. The 1JZ swap into an SC300 is MUCH easier & straightforward by far! The hardest part of that is getting your harness modded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joa_taste Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) true but a 1jz complete with a r154 (5 speed tranny) is already about 2900 you might as well add another 500 for shipping then when you get it in your hands your replacing things that should be replaced since it's out...i figured this swap would be lighter on the pockets since like i said stock red top is what im looking at doing the wiring i heard (or read was pretty easy also right?) i know im making it sound like its a plug n play swap, but i know it's not I called the motorsports shop and it's 7500 for the full swap, and 4200 if you bring your own sr20 that seems pretty expensive to me i have another question what did you do for driveshaft? Edited August 10, 2011 by joa_taste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt K Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) I got one shortened. That's all that was required. You'll spend more than $1500 alone for mounts, intercooler, piping, hoses, custom driveshaft, not including your motorset. Mechanic labor rates aren't cheap, neither is the experience in the swap that you'd be paying for to have a turn-key, ready to run car. Yeah, the biggest reason I'm doing it myself is cost as well. I could care less about the experience...I've been rebuilding engines & such for over 20 years, due to some questionably reliable cars in my past. Here's some hard math for you...(for reference use only) http://mckinneymotorsports.com/prod_240+260+280Z+parts $449.99 gets you McKinney's SR mount kit (w/o shipping) $425 for their custom driveshaft (ouch!) $290 for their downpipe $129.99 for their throttle cable $550 for their 3" exhaust $750 for their radiator setup It adds up quick...and that's without intercooler & piping, any wiring, making your gauges interface, etc. Sure, you can cut some corners by having a local shop make your exhaust & cut your driveshaft, use a 240SX throttle cable (with a little work), modify an ebay downpipe, etc. If you want a hybridz, get good at making your own parts, or save up about 2-3x more than you initially think you're going to spend...that's just the nature of the beast! And here's someone else's project build, for reference...he's also on here (hope you don't mind!) http://community.ratsun.net/topic/20316-240z-sr20-build/ Edited August 10, 2011 by Matt K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMission Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 That's my build, so PM me if you have any questions regarding... I'm a few weeks from being road worthy if I'm lucky. But, I still have a ton more to do to get where I want upgrade wise. There are a lot of ways to save money, most by doing it yourself, but there is a heck of a lot of research out there to do to pull it off nicely. Also, if you only want to remain at stock SR20DET hp, there isn't much to do, but it's a heck of a lot easier building up things for later now that doing it later when it's all in. I did a lot of stuff I wanted to do for the heck of it and to clean things up visually that you don't have to do, but it's sure nice to have the battery under the back, with a nice shaved outside and a really clean engine bay. If you want to run more than stock HP someday, I'd look at the fuel situation and at least run better lines and a surge tank off the main (There are a ton of threads that talk about that setup). I found it cleaner and easier to just cut the rear out, lay in a cell, and have at it with new lines and fun. It was easy enough and will get me to 400 easy if I ever want to go there. The things you don't think of are endless - Radiators and Fans, Controller for Fans, FMIC, FMIC piping and the custom work there, Mounts, Shaft, Throttle Cable Mods, Rear Diff for the future. Plus, almost any SR20 should be redone with new seals, new hoses, and a good run through... This is my favorite thread in that regard: http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/sr20det-engines/107130-my-s13-sr20det-prep.html If you want the car to look pretty as well, heck, it's a whole bunch more money too. Just slapping in a SR20 and doing the bare minimum is possible though and cheaper, but 5k seems like a decent and reasonable estimate for the basics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joa_taste Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Thank you so much guys coming from the supraforums when i had a mk3 to the clublexus forums when since i have a sc now you guys are sooo much willing to help without typing the newb button ill check out your thread when i've got more time later and see what you did so i can see what ball park ill be in Only reason i am very interested in the swap is because i bought a cheap 240z for 600 and i know someone selling their full motorset redtop cheap also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joa_taste Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 That's my build, so PM me if you have any questions regarding... I'm a few weeks from being road worthy if I'm lucky. But, I still have a ton more to do to get where I want upgrade wise. There are a lot of ways to save money, most by doing it yourself, but there is a heck of a lot of research out there to do to pull it off nicely. Also, if you only want to remain at stock SR20DET hp, there isn't much to do, but it's a heck of a lot easier building up things for later now that doing it later when it's all in. I did a lot of stuff I wanted to do for the heck of it and to clean things up visually that you don't have to do, but it's sure nice to have the battery under the back, with a nice shaved outside and a really clean engine bay. If you want to run more than stock HP someday, I'd look at the fuel situation and at least run better lines and a surge tank off the main (There are a ton of threads that talk about that setup). I found it cleaner and easier to just cut the rear out, lay in a cell, and have at it with new lines and fun. It was easy enough and will get me to 400 easy if I ever want to go there. The things you don't think of are endless - Radiators and Fans, Controller for Fans, FMIC, FMIC piping and the custom work there, Mounts, Shaft, Throttle Cable Mods, Rear Diff for the future. Plus, almost any SR20 should be redone with new seals, new hoses, and a good run through... This is my favorite thread in that regard: http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/sr20det-engines/107130-my-s13-sr20det-prep.html If you want the car to look pretty as well, heck, it's a whole bunch more money too. Just slapping in a SR20 and doing the bare minimum is possible though and cheaper, but 5k seems like a decent and reasonable estimate for the basics. Hmmm i looked at your thread and lemme tell you seems like a little more work than i planned, but it seems heck of a lot worth it.. btw i hope you went with the diamond racing wheels...that's a great look 4000 to 5000 seems okay ill price it and keep my options open Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMission Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Yep... The wheels should be ready to be shipped this week or next. I have the tires already. The door window frames and c pillar window frames, as well as the door handles are at the powder coater and should be ready next week too. This weekend the hood goes back on, and hopefully the front Xenon lip, but it's up to my friend's schedule to see if he can paint them on time. Then it's to an exhaust shop, as I need a 3 inch fabbed from the turbo elbow back and then I'll be at least road worthy. Then it's 1-2k in suspension mods after that to be where I want it on the outside, plus tint, touch up paint work and interior work to be done. It's not been THAT expensive, but it adds up. I spread it out over years, so it's much easier to stomach piece by piece. There are so many threads on this conversion out there, especially in the Ratsun forums as well, as 510 guys have had a good time with these swaps too, so the search is your friend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr jdm Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I got one shortened. That's all that was required. You'll spend more than $1500 alone for mounts, intercooler, piping, hoses, custom driveshaft, not including your motorset. Mechanic labor rates aren't cheap, neither is the experience in the swap that you'd be paying for to have a turn-key, ready to run car. Yeah, the biggest reason I'm doing it myself is cost as well. I could care less about the experience...I've been rebuilding engines & such for over 20 years, due to some questionably reliable cars in my past. Here's some hard math for you...(for reference use only) http://mckinneymotorsports.com/prod_240+260+280Z+parts $449.99 gets you McKinney's SR mount kit (w/o shipping) $425 for their custom driveshaft (ouch!) $290 for their downpipe $129.99 for their throttle cable $550 for their 3" exhaust $750 for their radiator setup It adds up quick...and that's without intercooler & piping, any wiring, making your gauges interface, etc. Sure, you can cut some corners by having a local shop make your exhaust & cut your driveshaft, use a 240SX throttle cable (with a little work), modify an ebay downpipe, etc. If you want a hybridz, get good at making your own parts, or save up about 2-3x more than you initially think you're going to spend...that's just the nature of the beast! And here's someone else's project build, for reference...he's also on here (hope you don't mind!) http://community.ratsun.net/topic/20316-240z-sr20-build/ This is extremely exaggerating the price. Most shops will shorten a driveshaft for about 75 bucks, You can easily use a 40 dollar throttle lokar cable. 750?? for a radiator setup? I have a griffin aluminum radiator in my car with NO fans for around 300 bucks. Running no fans, I have yet to ever see a single degree higher than 180. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt K Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Yes, I didn't pay that much for my stuff either, however that IS what that particular vendor wants for those items...click the link to see for yourself. I see no reason to even swap my radiator at this point as it's working fine in the New Mexico heat, but again, this is why a shop charges as much as it does to do a swap like this...in house labor rates & full retail on parts. I gave suggestions as to how to save some money on this swap above. Here's what I'm sitting at so far... S13 Blacktop (removed from running 240SX) $1700 Used Vildini engine cradle, trans mount, custom driveshaft, intercooler & piping (all removed from SR swapped car) $500 Exedy clutch (Zilvia) $100 Z32 mafs (Zilvia) $75 Apexi dual chamber BOV with pipe (Zilvia) $60 Enthalpy ECU (paid $125 for used one from Zilvia, another $150 to get retuned for my combination) $375 Twin 10" electric fans FREE from a buddy (new) Megan tubular exhaust manifold & outlet pipe (Zilvia) $75 S14 turbo & stainless lines (buddy) $250 Greddy clone intake manifold (buddy) $80 new RB20DET speed sensor (to utilize the factory cable speedometer) $40 SUBTOTAL $3255 I have a few extra SR parts that came off the motor swap that I'm selling to get some money back as well (stock turbo, manifolds, turbo lines, power steering equipment) I still need to order my Walbro kit ~$100 Considering having Wiring Specialties modify my harnesses to be plug & play, so I don't have to worry about screwing something up ($300) Have Speedhut build me a tach to interface with the SR signal ~$150 replace 3.54 R200 with 3.90 or 4.10 geared R200 ~$150 Install OBX rear LSD unit for added traction ~$450 for parts & labor Replace engine hoses to longer ones, thermostatic fan relay for cooling fans, upgraded fuel pump wiring & relay, and items I may not foresee but will need, misc parts, etc. ~$250 The big deal breaker that has my project on hold is I want to replace my floor pans & frame rails with Bad Dog Racing stuff...prior to swapping in the SR. I have some poorly patched pans that weren't treated after having new metal welded in by the previous owner, and one of my frame rails has a hole in it...so rather than do patchwork, I want to replace it all. I also acquired a set of 850cc Sard injectors in rail (only 1500 miles), from a buddy who parted out his race motor. These will go in at a later date, along with a .64 AR 2871R turbo, ARP head studs, 1.2mm metal head gasket, and some mild cams. I'm not in a hurry to do that though, I want to get everything installed & worked out prior to upgrading the motor to my end goal HP level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMission Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 This is extremely exaggerating the price. Most shops will shorten a driveshaft for about 75 bucks, You can easily use a 40 dollar throttle lokar cable. 750?? for a radiator setup? I have a griffin aluminum radiator in my car with NO fans for around 300 bucks. Running no fans, I have yet to ever see a single degree higher than 180. I agree that the price there is crazy... no way I was paying that much for most of that. I used a standard cheap cable of off ebay and it doesn't "look" as good as the mc setup, but it works perfect. I'm also using a cheap aluminum radiator with no problems, but can't imagine running with no fans... I overheated without fans working just idling (as I was troubleshooting the fan controller), and can't imaging getting stuck in traffic and having that happen. The fan I'm running is cheap as all getup on ebay and runs more air then you could ever need. I think you'll end up with more costs that just come up as you are playing, but you're in the right ballpark. I still think you'll end at 4-5, but you have saved some significant monies with getting the whole deal for FMIC, piping, and such all in one package and cheap. I blew money on powdercoating and fuel setup that just was more aesthetic than anything, but I was also watching Blakt Out's thread and he just kept inspiring me to try to do some of his really awesome looking stuff on the cheap. His AMAZING thread is here, but it's what happens when you spend an near unlimited amount of money and have most, if not everything done by a really amazing shop http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/74214-full-on-resto-mod-of-a-240z/ I've also seen some really bare minimum swaps and they look like they could have been on the cheap as well. I'd still spend some money on that SR20 just to refresh it and clean it up before you drop it in... as well as on the bay while it's empty to clean it up, maybe shave some holes that you wont use and make things pretty when you surely show it off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joa_taste Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 Yeah dudes price up above was crazy im not a name brand guy if it works it works greddy or godspeed lol which ever is cheap and effective Some people say there is cheap, reliable, and fast you can only pick 2 Ive always gone for 2.5 lol This swap seems like a normal swap other than the easy wiring diagnostics, seems like fun I cant wait to get started Might have to get a build thread soon I wouldnt know what color to powdercoat my engine bay because im not sure which color I want to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzgoten Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I read through most of this and it seems like they guys have your questions answered. But the SR in you Z will be awesome. I promise you that much. The power to weight ratio is just kick ass and you'll pull on most cars on the road. I just had my gas tank pressure tested to make sure it could hold the PSI and after that I had a Walboro 255lph pump installed but I'm not a fan. The pump died on my in about 6 months. I ended up getting a Aeromotive 700.. but that isn't what I'd recommend for a "stock SR" setup. I'd look into the Bosch 044 or see if they make the new Aeromotive 340lph as a in-line pump. Also as far as motor mounts, I bought the McKinny mounts and I'd say they are decent AT BEST. The "hockey puck" mounts didn't even sit flush on both sides. One side the mounts sat flush, on the other side it was a bit off kilter and wedged more on one side. Vildini seems to have their stuff together and I really love their stuff. I'd explore that avenue first if I could go back and redo things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joa_taste Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 Yeah one of the guys on here has helped me out alot. I'm only in the beginning stages of swapping the sr20 in, still haven't gotten one yet but i have a sale pending in the zilvia forums.. I dropped my fuel tank from the 260z and im putting a 280z tank and surge tank...I've been looking at the walbro pump i heard the 255 is good, but i don't want it to crap out on me in only the beginning stages of my car being swapped. That would suck so you recommend the aeromotive 700 than? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzgoten Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 That would suck so you recommend the aeromotive 700 than? Sorry if I confused you there. What I was saying was that I personally felt that the walboro SUCKED. I went through 2 of them. One in-tank (on my silvia) and one in-line (on my Z). I think the Aeromotive 700 for you would be OVERKILL. I would look into theses fuel pumps: Bosch 044 (300 lph) http://highflowfuel.com/i-4791020-bosch-044-300lph-inline-pump-includes-an-fittings-of-choice.html Aeromotive - I seatched for their 340lph and they only sell it in-tank at the moment.. so it wouldn't work for you. They do sell a smaller in-line pump but it's only 200 lph which I wouldn't recommend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joa_taste Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 Damn thats soo expensive though for fuel management ,the aeromotive, the boach isnt too bad did u end up with a surge tank also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzgoten Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Damn thats soo expensive though for fuel management ,the aeromotive, the boach isnt too bad did u end up with a surge tank also? I had a custom gas tank built. I took the stock 240z gas tank and cut out the center bottom part of the tank. Had a baffel made from perforated steel and then had a sump installed with 2 -6 AN fitting bungs. So when I accelarate out of the corners I'm able to pick up fuel. I had that problem before I modified the tank. I highly recommend doing something about the stock tank if you plan on doing any track events or spirited driving. You best bet though, to save serious cash, would be to look for a 280zx gas tank and just have custom -AN fittings put on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joa_taste Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 I don't want to make a custom fuel tank, i ended up scrapping my 260z fuel tank and getting the 280z one, i just don't know where to put or set up my surge tank. or which one to get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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