Tony D Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I've always wondered where the 'locked distributor' comes from... That's straight out of the 1950's Turbo Manual. I ran vacuum advance/retard on mine. The Euro Spec Turbos used an E12-80 distributor with Vacuum Advance/Retard from the factory. Modifying the distributor to allow retard under boost is easy enough, and covered at some of the 510 sites. You just allow the points plate to rotate in the other direction through slotting of the plate appropriately. Cutting down of the total vacuum advance is possible though simple epoxy in the slots as well. The way the car runs with functioning distributor vacuum / centrifugal advance versus locked is quite a bit different. And the ability to have all of that at partial throttle helps in spool as well! Retard is retard, and easily enough done with a BTM. I'd not lock it, there really is no need to with a low-boost engine. A BTM at 2/psi will drop 16 degrees of advance by 8psi. Do the math on mechanical advance (as vacuum will not be in play) and you will see numbers that coincide with most MS Maps of timing for the same level of boost!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddle Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) Banjo bolt @ turbo leaks even when really tightened - should I order new, or is there a better fix? If it has cooper washer, just heat them up ( Anneal ), the way I was told, heat till you can see a colour change - dull red , but not to much or they will melt. this will make them soft, and they will seal. Nigel Edited October 9, 2011 by Noddle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Yes, as long as the copper washers are not scarred or cut annealing the way Noddle mentions should actually be done each time the washer is removed. It will work harden and split if you re-use too many times without annealing. You can do it with a propane or butate crack pipe torch.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 or just ask a gun nut to do it for you when he does his shells 40 reloads out of S&B .303 cartridges suits me I just anneal after every two reloads. There's not that much difference between annealing copper and annealing ammo brass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Yerp... For those who have access to such devices. In the USA crack pipes are more common than handgun reloaders these days it seems... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 If you have locked out the mechanical advance then why do you need a boost retard system? Just set the timing to 28 to 30 degrees and use the vacuum advance as normal. 28 to 30 degrees of timing works well with 8 psi of boost and 7:4:1 cr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Stone age man, like wicked tech daddy-o! Yo Cats, I'm heading to my beat poetry recital now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana280z Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 Does anyone recommend teflon thread tape as an extra measure (on the threads of course)? Any feed back on the AFM adjustment? Makes sense that it would run rich at idle with the bigger injectors (remember I have only started, idled, and revved to maybe 1000 at this point). I want to wait for the BOV before I test drive. Ignition advance: Being that I have already welded the mech advance AND purchased the BTM, what are your recommendations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddle Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Does anyone recommend teflon thread tape as an extra measure (on the threads of course)? Any feed back on the AFM adjustment? Makes sense that it would run rich at idle with the bigger injectors (remember I have only started, idled, and revved to maybe 1000 at this point). I want to wait for the BOV before I test drive. Ignition advance: Being that I have already welded the mech advance AND purchased the BTM, what are your recommendations? No tape is needed if the copper washers seal, ( you dont want bits of tape going through the turbo ), another way to heat the washers, if you don't have a torch is to use a old style stove top, the one with the spiral hot plat, turn it up flat out with the washers on it. Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 "Does anyone recommend teflon thread tape as an extra measure (on the threads of course)? " ABSOLUTELY CATEGORICALLY NO, NEVER, NOT EVER! I am in a damned war now with our assembly site in China over this very issue. They seem to think Teflon Tape is something good in a fuel system. Again, this is 50's technology... There are PLENTY of anerobic sealants (PST 567 for example) which do the EXACT SAME thing ONLY BETTER than Teflon Tape EVER tried to accomplish. Thing is, it will NEVER get in the fuel system to snag and clog filters, hang a float needle up, plug a jet, etc... The list goes on and on. For NPT fittings in fuel systems, use Loctite PST of whatever strength you desire (there are several numbers out there, low, medium, high strength, removable, non removable, etc.) For Banjo fittings, the CRUSH WASHERS are what affect the seal, the THREADS do NOTHING in terms of sealing, they merely provide the clamping force to seat the banjo against the seating surfaces on the CRUSH washer. It is the CRUSH that is the operative word here, and that is PRECISELY why you must ANNEAL them before assembly if you are re-using. I came from Aircraft Hydraulics, systems that operate at 6000psi. If I can get aluminum and copper crush washers to NOT LEAK at 6KPSI, everybody should be able to keep them from leaking at the pressures they are using (many times 6000 times LESS than what I was working at!) The KEYS to leak proof threaded and pipe/tubing joints are as follows: CLEAN surfaces. Not just on the fittings themselves, but the ENTIRE AREA. If you have grease, oil, grime, etc all over the engine, you will NEVER be able to diagnose properly WHERE any specific leak is coming from. I've seen fittings wrenched on till they fail because of a fitting several inches above it continually leaked and followed piping down to the backside and simply dripped off the lowpoint. If the entire assembly is bathed with a quick-drying solvent like brake cleaner immediately before startup ANY moisture is QUICKLY discernible and traced to point of origin easily. No nicks, divots, or scratches that can cause a leak path on sealing surfaces (and on NPT fittings, THREADS.) Sealing Washers NEW or annealed properly. Male NPT Threaded Joints properly cleaned, with sealants applied properly to the root of the threads to prevent leak-paths. Female NPT Threaded Joints properly cleaned, with DRY threads. NPT Threaded Joints made up with the proper number of 'turns past finger tight'---on smaller fittings this may be as little as 1/4 turn! Generally no more than 2 turns past finger-tight from DRY MAKEUP. On O-Ring Fittings, proper lubricant on the O-Rings (Parker Super-O Lube, or regular O-Lube) On O-Rings with Static Seals, make sure the static seal is on the PROPER SIDE relative to pressure application. When using Anaerobic Sealants, remember THEY will seal the thread root-overtightening will DRIVE OUT the sealant, deform the threads, and PROVIDE a leak path. "Looser is better than 'one more turn' when dealing with these sealants!" When putting Aluminum Fittings into Aluminum or Magnesium, try using Loctite Green, (cylindrical parts locker) on the threads and DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN. (For a one-time installation meant to be permanent, use Loctite RED.) Use the locking compound to secure the threads and fix the position. If you tighten too much chances are you will gall the threads and render both the fitting and the casting you are putting it into useless. Both of these can be removed by applying a heat gun to the area to release the compound. The threads will come out looking like new, and they WILL NOT LEAK! NEVER use tape or other sealants on JIC/A-N/SAE style cone fittings. The key to their assembly is CLEAN NICK FREE FACES AND FLARES. I have seen locking compounds for it, as well as washers for the face. They can assist in troublesome cases. but many times when a flared tube has a nick, simply supergluing some 400 grit crocus cloth onto the face of a mating fitting and using it to clean the flared face will allow it to be made up dry without a leak. Anybody using teflon tape on flared fittings should be hauled before the local car club, flogged, and then shot. If it leaks, take it apart, CLEAN IT, and put it back together PROPERLY. In 999 cases out of 1000 in the field where I have had calls for 'oil leaks' I have found sloppy makeup practices were employed when the machine was going together. I take all the leakers apart (as well as most that aren't yet leaking) remove all the sealants, tapes, silicone, monkey poop, whatever was applied to 'stop the leak' in the past, and reassemble a clean, dry, properly torqued fitting and the LEAK CEASES. If I can get repeated three day passes to town for Zero-Defect QA inspections from Military Inspectors on 6000 psi Hydraulic Systems after major maintenance (that means not one of over 1250 fittings in a three system hydraulic test stand had even a SINGLE DROP show after a grueling test-run) you can get a 3.5psi fuel system (or even 100psi) to run without a leak. This also goes for my time with 6000 PSI+ Helium Compressors. You want to talk about a BEAR requiring ABSOLUTELY SCRUPULOUSLY CLEAN FITTINGS---a Helium Compressor for bottling cylinders is probably the worst you will get. Most critical-path systems use Helium as their leak checking gas as it's inert, and has the smallest (most apt to find a leak path and leak out) mol size to 'find' leaks where other gasses will not show a leak. Helium will seive out a fitting where Nitrogen will sit virtually forever without leaking down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddle Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 No tape is needed if the copper washers seal, ( you dont want bits of tape going through the turbo ), another way to heat the washers, if you don't have a torch is to use a old style stove top, the one with the spiral hot plat, turn it up flat out with the washers on it. Nigel Tony, I hope you was not talking about my reply, I should have said "No tape is needed, the copper washers will seal it" Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana280z Posted October 11, 2011 Author Share Posted October 11, 2011 Thanks to all for the copper washer advise, it worked like a charm! No more leaky turbo! I also found main cause of rich-as-hell idle - it was a bullet connector on the wires leading to temp sensor. I gave the carbon trace potentiometer some spring preload, but it may need some more as the idle seems to smooth out and speed up a little when I push back on it. Also found the reason fuel pressure gauge drops to zero after a few minutes - leaky fuel line @ pump. Now that she starts and idles smoothly, I can't wait for the BOV and a test drive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana280z Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 I am absolutely giddy right now! BOV came in the mail, threw it on, double checked everything and took it for a spin. I had a turbo subaru back in the day, but nothing like this! It sounds freaking awesome! WHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE, WHOOSH! Pulls like a mother, too. THANK YOU TO ALL WHO ANSWERED MY DUMB NEWBIE QUESTIONS!!! I don't know if I would have had the confidence to undertake this without your help. I'll take some final pics tomorrow when its light out. Should I go ahead and install the MSD box and leave the boost retard setting low? The multi spark might be nice down low. I haven't taken the tach past 4500, but I haven't heard/felt detonation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Noddle, anything I posted was in support of your comments, especially in regards to the use of Teflon Tape not being necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana280z Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Sorry to take so long with pics. Heres engine bay with 6btm mounted but not wired (waiting on tach adapt) My plan is to run stock n/a initial timing with locked dizzy and use btm to retard (slightly) on boost. Other side of engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana280z Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 The last attached thumb is of temporary mounting of boost gauge. I have ordered an AEM a/f gauge w/ wideband to see what fuel is doing in upper rpm range and will mount the two together somewhere (ideas?). I do, however, like having the boost in front of the tach. The five speed thats going in w/ turbo clutch, flywheel, and new rear main seal next week sometime. Very custom fencepost strut bar! Has anyone here made their own "short throw" shifter by cutting down a stock one and either threading or mounting the knob in another fashion? I kinda hate paying for something I can make myself with my limited fab skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana280z Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 The last attached thumb is of temporary mounting of boost gauge. I have ordered an AEM a/f gauge w/ wideband to see what fuel is doing in upper rpm range and will mount the two together somewhere (ideas?). I do, however, like having the boost in front of the tach. The five speed thats going in w/ turbo clutch, flywheel, and new rear main seal next week sometime. Very custom fencepost strut bar! Has anyone here made their own "short throw" shifter by cutting down a stock one and either threading or mounting the knob in another fashion? I kinda hate paying for something I can make myself with my limited fab skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana280z Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 The last attached thumb is of temporary mounting of boost gauge. I have ordered an AEM a/f gauge w/ wideband to see what fuel is doing in upper rpm range and will mount the two together somewhere (ideas?). I do, however, like having the boost in front of the tach. The five speed thats going in w/ turbo clutch, flywheel, and new rear main seal next week sometime. Very custom fencepost strut bar! Has anyone here made their own "short throw" shifter by cutting down a stock one and either threading or mounting the knob in another fashion? I kinda hate paying for something I can make myself with my limited fab skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana280z Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Sorry about the ...not double, but triple!!... post - my internet sucks sometimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddle Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Why are you running 2 fuel regulators ? Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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