Dp351zcar Posted June 16, 2001 Share Posted June 16, 2001 I talked to someone knows what he is talking about and he said something that I agree with but I don't know if I would have noticed. I am building a 351 windsor, victor jr, canfield heads, J&E 10:1 pistons, eagle H-beam rods, comp-cams XE 284 flat tappet cam would be the smallest I would run, and the stock cast crank. His point is that crank is very heavy and would cause the engine to rev slowly. What would be better would be to cut the mains down to 2.75 the cleveland size and trim the counter weights down so that I could trim apox, 15lbs off the crank. Or buy a forged cleveland crank and run a adapter kit to fit the main bearings to my block there by getting a lighter crank. Sorry about the length but would I notice the heavy crank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted June 16, 2001 Share Posted June 16, 2001 Ummm, I'm not a Ford expert, but an aquaintance of mine put a 351W in Mustang and it hauls beans. Also, a guy I knew in high school also had one in his '70 slantback (?) and he could roast the tires. Those are in big heavy cars... I would think that in a Z it would not make any difference. The 351 is a great engine from what I've ever read. If I ever do a Ford swap, the 302 and the 351 are the ones I would consider. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 16, 2001 Share Posted June 16, 2001 I've driven a few 351w cars and don't really remember thinking to myself that it rev'ed slow. I'm thinking with the spec's you gave that if you put your foot down you won't be waiting long to be moving pretty fast, a lightened crank might be ok if you can bankroll it. Many times they only lighten them if they're going to turn alot of RPM and also the lightening is often a byproduct of knife-edging the crank to cut through the windage a bit better. I'd ask how much horsepower your going to gain by doing it, and see if its worth the expense to you. I'm sure the Ford guys will chime in when they read this and give they're opinion on it. Best regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted June 16, 2001 Share Posted June 16, 2001 Bank rolling a lightened crank is correct. If/when you lighten a crank-for the price you're paying for it you might as well throw in the knife edging to boot. All this lightening usually means molly weighted slugs in the counter weights...talking @ $3k easily. I also agree w/the earlier statement-in a Z where the car is anywhere from 600lbs to 1000lbs lighter than the cars that the 351W initially came in/the lighter weight is in the Z & doesnt arbitrarily need to be in the crank. BTW: the phrase "slow revving engine" is a relative one. In order for us to know what your friend was talking about-we'ld have to know where he obtained his information-other than that/its kind of useless to anyone. If your friend was talking about a Pro-Stock racer looking to maximize every little tid bit of power-then yea/maybe the crank does turn slow (compared to his other Pro-Stock racing buddies). However, dropping it in a Z; I'ld think a mild/moderate perf.build would light up the Z's tires! Kevin (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted June 16, 2001 Share Posted June 16, 2001 I think an larger problem as perceived by the racers in the windor crank is the bearing speed instead of "slow reving"?? Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dp351zcar Posted June 17, 2001 Author Share Posted June 17, 2001 I had called the maker of my heads to find out the model, I had bought them from a shop that had labeled them as theirs. When I called the person that answered the phone was the man who had started the company. His comment was the 351 was designed for heavy cars and trucks and as such it was given a heavy crank with lots of inertia(spelling?). They had built a 351 and a 347 the same and the 347 was quicker reving and about .6 quicker at the track. He stated the it was mostly the lack of rotating mass in the 302 based motor compared to the heaver 351. Oh both motors were tested in the same car. I think I am maybe just looking for a reason to buy a forged crank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted June 17, 2001 Share Posted June 17, 2001 we here at Hybrid Z understand your justification to buy a forged crank & hereby grant such justification...as justified! Go for it; unless of course you dont wont to! I've read that cast cranks are good upto 600hp; but if I'm going that radical-I'ld just sleep better knowing I had a forged crank...it's your decision what you want. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 17, 2001 Share Posted June 17, 2001 If you have the dough a forged crank is fine. I believe with the addition of a stud girdle many of the 302's can see 500 hp on the stock crank (how long they'll see it would have to be researched ) and with the strokers they have these days you can really get some horsepower out of the windsors these days (always could but its better now). You may be able to hook the car up a bit better with the lighter crank and faster reving engine, because honestly traction will be your biggest problem if its on street tires (unless you call drag radials really street tires.. ). Good luck with it and keep us informed I'd like to hear how that motor turns out. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dp351zcar Posted June 17, 2001 Author Share Posted June 17, 2001 This car will be a long project and thanks to this web site it just keeps getting longer. I was only going to stick a v8 in and play. One thing led to another and my car is just keeps comming more and more apart in the garage. Will it ever end? With a wife, 2 little girls (3 and 6) and a house I am residing, time at home that I can work on the Z is rare. I road raced motorcycles in the 80's and I wanted to find something that capture my mind like that did. I think I did. So much to buy, so little to buy with. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted June 17, 2001 Share Posted June 17, 2001 A good book on Windsors; both the 5.0 & the 5.8's is "Ford Windsor-Small Block Performance" by Isaac Martin published by HPBooks/Copywrite date 1999; & complimented by the book "5.0 Ford Dyno Tests" by Richard Holdener and published by SADesign/Copywrite date 2000. Nothing wrong w/those Fords-remember it took a Windsor & CarrollShelby to beat those Ferraris/not too shabby. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 17, 2001 Share Posted June 17, 2001 Hey man, I doubt theres anyone thats hybrid'ed one of these Z's that hasn't either fell, fallen or is about to fall into the snowball effect to try and make these Z's into they're own version of what is cool. I was just writing privately to another member about that very thing, it all is so intermingled that once you start one thing another part causes further repairs/upgrades that in turn causes more repair/upgrades. Whew. I just wish I'd quit thinking about 'what would be cool to do' so I could get the list whittled down, but no, I keep adding to it.... Good luck on your project. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted June 17, 2001 Share Posted June 17, 2001 Okay... I've got a 351W in my Mustang, blown, and I know a little bit about Fords so here goes... Yeah, crank is heavier. Cutting it down would benefit you bearing speed wise if nothing else but are yuo really looking to spin it over 6K for long periods of time? The cost in cutting it down will be substantial an dwill weaken the crank. Why buy a forged crank? Stock 351W cranks are good to 650HP before they get iffy! This from a guy who specc'ed my motor (Steve Christ) and who has built and dyno'ed more Fords than I can imagine. If he says 650 I believe him, he also claimed my motor would make that number with just 10lbs of boost and has been able to predict other combos to within 10HP so he knows his stuff. A 347 ought to rev faster. Fine, big deal. A 347 is a grenade waiting to happen. Poor R/S ratio, some of them have pins in the ring package (no oil burning here!), and if built on a late model block it's timer is ticking. Girdle it if you want and put a forged crank in but a late model block blows the mains through the pan at about 500HP and will take that pretty girdle with it. The bolts rip right out of the block when this occurs - there's not enough meat in the later blocks for that kind of power. How much power are you looking to make? Are you going to spin it high? Is it REALLY 15lbs - after balancing too? Is that weight on the crank arms or overall? Could you runa lightweight flywheel to compensate? Is this a drag racing motor? Have you already put this motor together? Are you sticking to 351 cubes? (I did - who needs more with that much power?!). IMO - if you've already got the parts then I'd consider the stock crank unless you're shooting for 700hp and if you are how will you keep the Z on the road?! Want it to rev fast, destroke that sucker and hang on. Destroked Windsors supposedly rev like mad! For the power you're likely to be looking for I think spending a zillion on a forged crank isn't worth it or even spending a pile hacking up the stock one for that matter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 I have to agree with Jim. I built a 351(357) it was .030" over. It had a stock crank, Eagle rods, and custom D.S.S. pistons. It was a '69 block and crank. The tech guru at DSS said the motor was good to 700hp with the Eagle rods and light pistons. Granted this engine was not a 700hp engine(not for more than 9 seconds anyway) It was hosed down with a NOS Fogger system, and lives today to tell about it. Now it is going in my brothers FFR Cobra. It is an honest 580hp engine without any power adder. By the way Steeda has run many SCCA races with Crate 351 from Ford, and has a very good winning record with the now famous '95 Cobra R. Also using a standard production crank. Jamie Deathstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dp351zcar Posted June 21, 2001 Author Share Posted June 21, 2001 Thanks guys for the response I think I am staying with the stock crank. When I started looking up forged cranks about all I could find were stroked cranks. A bigger engine would be great but what would I do with all the power? I don't know what I'm going to with the power this combo will get me. Thanks again. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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