Challenger Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) What a learning curve this is! Wooo! haha. Anyways, I havent had any issues getting it to start its just to keep it idling. Sometimes it will start quick and then be pretty smooth, other times not so much. The times that it does run reasonably well and has close to stoich AFRs it will run maybe 15 seconds and then just lean out and die. Ive been messing around with the VE, ASE and WUE but it doesnt seem to be changing it. The fact that it is such a quick drop off is weird. I can see the pulse widths go up at the end and it leans out and dies?? Kind of backwards no? I have attached a picture of the megalog. How do I attach a megalog or my tune file? Do I have to zip it? I just recorded one that really shows it lean out. Any advice on this is much appreciated. I am sure there is other information needed to diagnose this so let me know. Ask away and Ill let you know what I know. Im reading, testing, reading, testing... Specs: EDIS 6: Confirmed spark on all cylinders and checked timing on cylinder 1, was dead on TDC when I set the fixed timing to 0. I now have it at 20 fixed. Fuel Injectors: Both banks are firing, Im trying to find a fitting to hook up my fuel pressure gauge but I dont think the fuel pressure is the issue. Edited March 30, 2012 by Challenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Alright another update, I checked my timing again cause it seemed like it was poping and backfiring and sure enough it seems like its fixed at 0 degrees.. This is probably a problem (duh) so Ill be looking into it. Im confused because I had it running earlier and it wasnt reading 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Alright, I got the timing working. Set the fixed timing to 0 and it came in lined up with the timing light, did 20 and it was a ways off, then ten split the difference. Works for me. Still working on the idle. Timing is fixed at 20 BTDC. Edited March 30, 2012 by Challenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Is cold start enrichment on? It could be screwing with your pulsewidths as the coolant warms up. From looking at your datalog, your temp reading looks pretty messy. Looks like your PW correlates with the temp reading, since you have a temp spike and the leaning follows along. I would turn off cold start enrichment and tune from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Ill look at doing that. Sure would be easier to just have to tune the VE until it runs smooth. The red line on the second graph is AFR not CLT, the labels on the left where CLT is red is for the 3rd graph not pictured. I'll be working on it tomorrow night so I'll try to deactivate those and get the car warmed up so I just have to tune the VE. I pulled the wbo2 out cause I feel like I may be running rich or lean and supposedly it's not great for it to see extremes. Also at some point if I get it running smooth ill hook it up and see if its like other innovatives and not working.... Also here's a question.. Is it ever possible to have the engine lean out with increased pulse width? Edited March 31, 2012 by Challenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) Fuel tank return was plugged up which was making the fuel pressure ridiculous. In the process of getting the tank cleaned so I have it running out of a milk carton, seems like its working fine. The car is running way better at 35 psi fuel pressure at idle but it still seems to be doing a little bit of wandering and is shaking more than it should. Seems like it might be missing because of the roughness and shaking. I went to check the timing again and what I noticed is that the timing light will skip a a flash or two every once in a while. I assume that means I am not getting a consistent spark. I couldnt tell if the idle was dropping or getting rougher when the light didnt flash but Ill look into it more. Idle manifold pressure is around 50 kPa. I will try to get a good data log once I get the VR sensor back on. A few things Im gonna check: 1) VR sensor gap seems to be to much, Ill need to drill out the holes some to get it closer. The rpm signal in megasquirt is consistent but then again the reading in tuner studio is an average so it might not show a few missed VR signals. 2) Pull plug wires or injector plugs to see if anything changes 3) Characterize miss, loss of spark 4) Fuel filter, might as well check it. Im trying to figure out if my LC-1 is working. It is showing a full 5V when idling which is super lean. The car runs ok at idle so I cant imagine it being that lean, but who knows? Doesnt explain the timing light issue but maybe it is running lean. Any advice is appreciated. Edited April 11, 2012 by Challenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Im trying to figure out if my LC-1 is working. It is showing a full 5V when idling which is super lean. The car runs ok at idle so I cant imagine it being that lean, but who knows? Doesnt explain the timing light issue but maybe it is running lean. Did you free-air calibrate the O2 sensor when you installed it? If it has been a while you might want to pull the sensor out of the exhaust pipe and do it again. Also, under Tools in Tuner Studio there is an option to load the AFR table (I'm going from memory for what this is called as I don't have my MS tuning laptop with me). If you have updated the MS firmware and didn't reload the table, then you may notice that the O2 sensor behaves as if it was a narrow band - e.g. it only reads either full lean or full rich. One more thing - in extreme case where you have lack of combustion (e.g. no spark), even though we would describe that as "rich", the O2 sensor will read lean since there is so much O2 left in the exhaust (along with a lot of unburned gas as well). Probably not your issue right now, but something to keep in mind as the O2 sensor will be reading the opposite of what you expect so might be confusing when trouble shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) Yeah, I've done the whole calibration process a couple times. Always works and gives the proper led flashes. The weird thing is that the sensor is responding to lack of oxygen. I used a rag with starter fluid on it and it can go to the rich side (that would mean its not acting like a narrow band). It's just weird that it's pegged at 5V, no flutter or anything. I can't imagine it being what you say about air and fuel going through unburned cause it doesn't seem like its missing THAT much but definitely something to consider. At this point I need a definite way to know what's broken. Wbo2 stuff is spendy. Thanks Edited April 11, 2012 by Challenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 You have the output configured correctly, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 Thats what im trying to figure out as well. Default is 0-5V = 7-23 AFR so im hoping thats what it was left as since I bought it used a couple years ago. There appears to be no problem with the communication between the sensor and controller and controller and MS so it might just be as you said, someone changed the output configuration. Sadly I have none of the software or parts to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannonball89 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 My LC1 turned out to be junk. I had to a similar problem as what your having. It would just read full lean all the time. Search for my thread "innovate LC1 giving me headaches". Mobythevan said that it is pretty common for more recently made LC1 units to be defective out of the box. Sounds like an issue with low voltage during cranking or something. Hopefully this isn't what your situation is, but I basically had to suck it up and buy a different brand. My AEM has been working great so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I had one DOA, it wouldn't do or respond to anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 You can d/l the software from the LC1 website. Cable is a 1/8" male miniplug to DB25 male for laptop, IIRC. It's simple to confirm/change the output mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 So, embarrassing.... The wideband was working fine. It was running lean. Added fuel and it's running alot better around 13:1 or so. Also closed the gap up on the Vr sensor it's about 50 thous or less to the wheel. It was way to far before. Still have a miss In the timing light though. Can't really hear anything when it doesn't flash. I'm gonna wait till my tank is back in to do much more, the milk jug isn't quite cutting it. Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaito Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Glad to hear your Lc-1 is working. mine was also doa and warrantied it out for another one that died a month later. Using the zeitronix zt-3 now its been good, even with leaded gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Yeah, I plan on doing a rewire down the road, sometime this year once I get it fairly debugged and I think Ill get something thats considered more bomb proof. An update. Car is running pretty good at idle and even up into the 1500+ range. Still a little shaky though, not as smooth as Id like. Anyways, I was checking each of the spark plugs with the timing light and 5 and 6 didnt flash. Everyone else is flashing bright. I went ahead and checked to see if they were firing at all by pulling the plugs on the injectors. The idle didnt change much at all. Both injectors have good 12V so its getting fuel but I think its not getting a good spark. I went ahead and tried to run the car on just 5 and 6 and it barely ran while running on any other 2 cylinders it was smooth. I cleaned up the spark plugs on 5 and 6 and tried it again and was able to get 5 to start flashing with the timing light. So, problem looks to be in the coil pack, wire or spark plug. My initial guess was the spark plugs were fouled but I went and sprayed them with starter fluid and wire brushed them and it didn't seem to do much good. I suppose there is a possibility there is an issue with the injectors but who knows. I dont think theyre leaking to where its fowling those plugs cause Im holding good fuel pressure after the engine is turned off. I wont have time till sunday or monday next week but I guess I have room to improve the idle. I guess best course of action is to get a new set of spark plugs? Whats reccomended? I remembered something about resistor plugs or something like that not working well with EDIS. Anyone remember something like that? Ill have to find where I saw that. Edited April 13, 2012 by Challenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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