stroking a 400M

[Guest Anonymous]

Has anyone hotted up a 351/400M i've had one sitting on the ground for a while and im thinking about hotting it up, does anyone know about stroking the 400, Im thinking of building it to run on straight LPG to keep running it cheap. Is there any websites i could check out, my searches keep comming up blank. any help would be appreciated

[Guest Anonymous]

Having attempted to get more HP out of the 400M myself (for a Bronco), I have to say that you are going to spend a great deal of money and time and not get very far. These engines are HEAVY and not designed for very high revs. They have about 8:1 cr and the oiling system feeds the cam first and the crank second. Not the hot setup! There are ways around all this, but again, $$$$$!

 

I use the Edelbrock Performer with 600cfm carb, small tube headers and recurved distributer. The cam is a Crane dual pattern with 260/272 duration and about .500 lift. It makes a great truck/towing engine.

 

Spend your time on a 351 windsor, IMHO.

 

Larry Cutter

[Guest Anonymous]

I think I've read that the 351/400M were just high deck cleveland blocks basically. It can be built but as mentioned it will be fairly expensive and unless you get creative with parts I'm not sure theres enough HP to chase after with that engine strictly from a bang for the buck point of view.

 

Regards,

 

Lone

[blueovalz]

Isn't the 400 simply a stroked 351M anyway? Besides, I believe the aftermarket inventory is pretty slim for these engines as far as intakes, etc.

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply's.

I was'nt thinking about building a high revin, wheel spinnin type of motor, just a good towing motor that sits at a decent speed on the highway, more torque than revs.

Im just exploring my options for now on doing the 400 or spending some cash on a bigblock

[Peternell]

Not a Ford guy here so my info may be a little off. I have a friend would did a low budget 408 basied on a 1969 or 1970 351 Windsor block (something about thick decks in those years) This was a true hybrid with the parts he uses. A 400M crank turned down to fit the 351 mains (just like a Chevy 383) 340 Mopar rods and 327 Chevy pistons with a compression height set up for 6" inch rods and a big ole roller cam. Now they have kits with all the right parts to make the 408.

 

With that huge 4" stroke that engine in a 67 Stang would have been trouble for my BB Chevelle, but fortunately for me he got interested in old Jeeps and never finished the project. Still got all the parts, just never assembled it, even some (Allen Roots? or something like that) motorsports aluminum heads too.

[Guest Anonymous]

Mmmm sound interesting I might have to pursue that one... time to make some inquires

thanks

[Peternell]

More info on 408 Windsor. The 1969 or 1970 351 Windsor blocks are taller by just a tiny bit (.010) The 400 crank was turned down, not on the mains but the counterweights to clear the 351W block. The Mopar rods are 6.125", which is extra long by my Chevy standards (5.703") Mopar 318 rods are the same length as the 340 rods (I think?) and should be much cheaper and easier to find.

 

Bad news was extra money spent on balancing due to removal of 1"+ of the counterweights

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks for the info, I'm going to go see one of the local engine rebuilders/machinist after the weekend and see what they think, getting most of the parts should be fairly easy. So the machining costs should be the major deciding factor.

[Guest fordguy57]

YOU CAN BOOST 400M COMPRESSION USING EITHER THE 4V CLOSED CHAMBER 351C HEAD; OR BY MILLING BOTH DECK AND ANY OPEN CHAMBER HEAD ABOUT .022 EACH. THIS WILL GIVE YOU OVER 9:1 COMPRESSION - EVEN WITH DISHED PISTONS. CAN ALSO USE 351C PISTONS -- IF -- YOU BUSH THE UPPER ROD END TO 351C SIZE. WEIGHT IS APPROXIMATELY THE SAME AS THE SBC (AROUND 580 LBS.), SO IT IS NOT A LIGHTWEIGHT, BUT IT IS FAR LIGHTER THAN A 460 (@ 720 LBS). THERE ARE AFTERMARKET 4V ALUMINUM INTAKES FOR 400'S; BUT NOT REALLY GREAT FOR HIGHER RPM. SEE SEPT 1998 HOT ROD ARTICLE. THEY BUILT 400 FOR MAX 5000 RPM FOR LESS THAN $2,000 THAT PUT OUT CLOSE TO 400HP WITH TORQUE COMPARABLE TO A 460. (400 STROKE IS LONGER THAN THE 460 STROKE). CAN USE 351 INTAKES ALSO BY INCORPORATING MOROSO INTAKE PLATES (ABOUT $80 FROM SUMMIT RACING); AND THOSE PLATES CAN BE USED TO ADAPT ANY 2V OR 4V INTAKE TO EITHER 2V OR 4V HEADS. RACING 351'S USED OIL RESTRICTORS TO KEEP TOO MUCH

OIL FROM BLEEDING OFF TO TOP END AND 400 CAN HAVE SAME MOD'S DONE. FAR AS THAT GOES, THE 390'S, 428'S & ALL FE'S (EXCEPT SIDEOILER 406 & 427) USED ESSENTIALLY THIS SAME OILING SCHEME (CAM THEN CRANK..)AND THEY WEREN'T GRENADING LEFT AND RIGHT, SO I AM SKEPTICAL AS TO HOW DEFICIENT THE OILING SYSTEM IS (GUESS DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU COMPARE IT TO..). BUT DON'T THINK THAT'S MUCH OF A PROBLEM AT

AROUND THE 5K MAX RPM RANGE ANYWAY. I HAVE 280ZX 327/4 SPEED AND I'M CONTEMPLATING A SECOND ONE WITH 400 WITH 351C 4V HEADS TOO

(IN FACT HEADS ALREADY AT MACHINIST'S..), BUT DON'T KNOW IF DATSUN CHASSIS COULD REALLY UTILIZE ALL THAT TORQUE ANYWAY. YOU CAN SEND THE CAR IN ANY DIRECTION WITH A SMALL BLOCK, SO DON'T KNOW IF IT WOULD WORK OUT ANY BETTER (more power; worse handling & more structural issues..). CAN ONLY USE AS MUCH POWER AS YOU CAN GET TO THE GROUND AND EITHER SBF OR SBC CAN PRODUCE MORE POWER IN Z-CAR THAN YOU CAN REALLY USE ANYWAY..BUT, HOW WILL YOU REALLY KNOW, UNLESS YOU TRY IT?

 

MIKE H

[Guest fordguy57]

YOU CAN BOOST 400M COMPRESSION USING EITHER THE 4V CLOSED CHAMBER 351C HEAD; OR BY MILLING BOTH DECK AND ANY OPEN CHAMBER HEAD ABOUT .022 EACH. THIS WILL GIVE YOU OVER 9:1 COMPRESSION - EVEN WITH DISHED PISTONS. CAN ALSO USE 351C PISTONS -- IF -- YOU BUSH THE UPPER ROD END TO 351C SIZE. WEIGHT IS APPROXIMATELY THE SAME AS THE SBC (AROUND 580 LBS.), SO IT IS NOT A LIGHTWEIGHT, BUT IT IS FAR LIGHTER THAN A 460 (@ 720 LBS). THERE ARE AFTERMARKET 4V ALUMINUM INTAKES FOR 400'S; BUT NOT REALLY GREAT FOR HIGHER RPM. SEE SEPT 1998 HOT ROD ARTICLE. THEY BUILT 400 FOR MAX 5000 RPM FOR LESS THAN $2,000 THAT PUT OUT CLOSE TO 400HP WITH TORQUE COMPARABLE TO A 460. (400 STROKE IS LONGER THAN THE 460 STROKE). CAN USE 351 INTAKES ALSO BY INCORPORATING MOROSO INTAKE PLATES (ABOUT $80 FROM SUMMIT RACING); AND THOSE PLATES CAN BE USED TO ADAPT ANY 2V OR 4V INTAKE TO EITHER 2V OR 4V HEADS. RACING 351'S USED OIL RESTRICTORS TO KEEP TOO MUCH

OIL FROM BLEEDING OFF TO TOP END AND 400 CAN HAVE SAME MOD'S DONE. FAR AS THAT GOES, THE 390'S, 428'S & ALL FE'S (EXCEPT SIDEOILER 406 & 427) USED ESSENTIALLY THIS SAME OILING SCHEME (CAM THEN CRANK..)AND THEY WEREN'T GRENADING LEFT AND RIGHT, SO I AM SKEPTICAL AS TO HOW DEFICIENT THE OILING SYSTEM IS (GUESS DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU COMPARE IT TO..). BUT DON'T THINK THAT'S MUCH OF A PROBLEM AT

AROUND THE 5K MAX RPM RANGE ANYWAY. I HAVE 280ZX 327/4 SPEED AND I'M CONTEMPLATING A SECOND ONE WITH 400 WITH 351C 4V HEADS TOO

(IN FACT HEADS ALREADY AT MACHINIST'S..), BUT DON'T KNOW IF DATSUN CHASSIS COULD REALLY UTILIZE ALL THAT TORQUE ANYWAY. YOU CAN SEND THE CAR IN ANY DIRECTION WITH A SMALL BLOCK, SO DON'T KNOW IF IT WOULD WORK OUT ANY BETTER (more power; worse handling & more structural issues..). CAN ONLY USE AS MUCH POWER AS YOU CAN GET TO THE GROUND AND EITHER SBF OR SBC CAN PRODUCE MORE POWER IN Z-CAR THAN YOU CAN REALLY USE ANYWAY..BUT, HOW WILL YOU REALLY KNOW, UNLESS YOU TRY IT?

 

MIKE H

[Guest fordguy57]

YOU CAN BOOST 400M COMPRESSION USING EITHER THE 4V CLOSED CHAMBER 351C HEAD; OR BY MILLING BOTH DECK AND ANY OPEN CHAMBER HEAD ABOUT .022 EACH. THIS WILL GIVE YOU OVER 9:1 COMPRESSION - EVEN WITH DISHED PISTONS. CAN ALSO USE 351C PISTONS -- IF -- YOU BUSH THE UPPER ROD END TO 351C SIZE. WEIGHT IS APPROXIMATELY THE SAME AS THE SBC (AROUND 580 LBS.), SO IT IS NOT A LIGHTWEIGHT, BUT IT IS FAR LIGHTER THAN A 460 (@ 720 LBS). THERE ARE AFTERMARKET 4V ALUMINUM INTAKES FOR 400'S; BUT NOT REALLY GREAT FOR HIGHER RPM. SEE SEPT 1998 HOT ROD ARTICLE. THEY BUILT 400 FOR MAX 5000 RPM FOR LESS THAN $2,000 THAT PUT OUT CLOSE TO 400HP WITH TORQUE COMPARABLE TO A 460. (400 STROKE IS LONGER THAN THE 460 STROKE). CAN USE 351 INTAKES ALSO BY INCORPORATING MOROSO INTAKE PLATES (ABOUT $80 FROM SUMMIT RACING); AND THOSE PLATES CAN BE USED TO ADAPT ANY 2V OR 4V INTAKE TO EITHER 2V OR 4V HEADS. RACING 351'S USED OIL RESTRICTORS TO KEEP TOO MUCH

OIL FROM BLEEDING OFF TO TOP END AND 400 CAN HAVE SAME MOD'S DONE. FAR AS THAT GOES, THE 390'S, 428'S & ALL FE'S (EXCEPT SIDEOILER 406 & 427) USED ESSENTIALLY THIS SAME OILING SCHEME (CAM THEN CRANK..)AND THEY WEREN'T GRENADING LEFT AND RIGHT, SO I AM SKEPTICAL AS TO HOW DEFICIENT THE OILING SYSTEM IS (GUESS DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU COMPARE IT TO..). BUT DON'T THINK THAT'S MUCH OF A PROBLEM AT

AROUND THE 5K MAX RPM RANGE ANYWAY. I HAVE 280ZX 327/4 SPEED AND I'M CONTEMPLATING A SECOND ONE WITH 400 WITH 351C 4V HEADS TOO

(IN FACT HEADS ALREADY AT MACHINIST'S..), BUT DON'T KNOW IF DATSUN CHASSIS COULD REALLY UTILIZE ALL THAT TORQUE ANYWAY. YOU CAN SEND THE CAR IN ANY DIRECTION WITH A SMALL BLOCK, SO DON'T KNOW IF IT WOULD WORK OUT ANY BETTER (more power; worse handling & more structural issues..). CAN ONLY USE AS MUCH POWER AS YOU CAN GET TO THE GROUND AND EITHER SBF OR SBC CAN PRODUCE MORE POWER IN Z-CAR THAN YOU CAN REALLY USE ANYWAY..BUT, HOW WILL YOU REALLY KNOW, UNLESS YOU TRY IT?

 

MIKE H

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks for that reply, i wasnt planning on using the motor in my Z just for my tow car, Just a hint in future use lower case letters because its like YOUR YELLING AT ME, no offence.

[Guest Anonymous]

Oh by the way would it be possible for you to scan the article on building a 400 and post it, Im in Aus so i cant get a hold on the mag you mentioned thanks.

[Trevor]

What bellhousing bolt pattern does the 400/351M have?.... I'm guessing big-block?

[Guest Anonymous]

351/400m's have the same bolt pattern as the 429 and 460. They really are turds, though. I tried hard to get power as I said before(yes, I read the Hot Rod article)and I also have extensive experience with 390s and Cobra Jets. My opinion is the same. Go 351W and hot rod the hell out of it.

 

GrinZ

[Guest Anonymous]

..i had a 400 w/351c heads....windsors?....look @ the heads on "all" the BOSS engines....8-1 compression.....not if the pistons are domed or the heads shaved...(but i dont think i could even get the headers in the zcar)....s