Zman0690 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I'm curious of anyone who has actually TIG welded patch panels on their S30 or S130. It seems like there is plenty of mention of people suggesting the use of a TIG welder but I can't seem to find any examples of the work. I'm curious as I have a TIG that I purchased specifically because of the malleability post weld and less likelihood of panel warp. I seem to be able to weld 18g and thicker but am having a heck of a time with my practice welds on the Z sheet which I measured out at .030" which would be 22g. I'm looking for any advice on settings and equip: amps, pulse hz, up/down slope, balance, etc plus tungsten type and size, cup whatever you have found to work the best. If anyone has any pictures of their Z sheet metal tig work I would love to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snailed Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) What machine are you using? I usually use a 1/16" or .040" thoriated tungsten (miller dynasty) for something like 22G and I would set the amperage to about 50 assuming you have pedal or torch control. .040" ER70s-2 is a nice filler for 22G. I use a gas lens and probably a #8 cup. No pulse TIG welding will warp the sheet metal just as much as MIG (more for most people). It's just a much easier weld to dress and metal finish. Spend a lot of time fitting the panel and you will save it on the other end. Do very close, fused tacks, reshape (stretch tacks) and then run as long and fast a bead as you can manage in one pass. Don't sit there and put heat into the panel. Get comfortable and in a good rhythm so you can do 3" in 10-15sec. When you dress the weld leave the haz on the topside so you can see areas where there might be more or less shrinkage. The haz width will be even once you get good at controlling your speed and heat. Stretch out weld with a medium crown hammer according to the haz width, being very consistent with your strikes so you stretch it evenly. More small hits are better. Same as welding. Get a good rhythm going and stick to it the whole way down the weld. Then finish with a slapper and dolly and you should have a panel that is exactly back to the shape you had when you tacked it. I have some TIG welded patch pictures in my project thread on here. edit - actually I don't, those are all MIG. I only tigged some on the A pillars. Edited August 13, 2012 by Snailed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zman0690 Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 Thanks for the info, I'm using an Everlast PowerPro 256. I feel fairly comfortable with the machine, I was using 1/16 ceriated with almost a needle point gas lens #8 cup ( None of my LWS had a .040 gas lens ). I got good results with tacking and short runs on low amps (20-25) but when running a bead it was going ridiculously slow which I assume now is what was causing it to blow out after 3/4 an inch. I also was using pulse at higher varying frequencies. I guess I was misinformed about being able to TIG at lower heat and it causing less warping. Another problem that I currently have is that I'm patching up some frame sections and have no access to the back side so no dolly and this particular section is a lap weld (18g on 22g) which from my test welds was causing the top piece to blow back using 35A however I never attempted to set my amps at 50 and move that quickly. I'll give it a go tomorrow night and post up the results. Hopefully its not a massacre like it has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOZ UP Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) Lower heat causes less warping. You still need to heat up the metal to 1500 degrees C to melt it... There's always going to be some warpage. You just have to minimize it, but reducing the amount of heat that spreads around. Edited August 13, 2012 by BLOZ UP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 With TIG fitup is critical. No gaps wider then the thickness of the filler wire. Cleanliness is also very important especially on the back side of the panels. IMHO, I've found no difference in thin panel warp between MIG and TIG. You do have to a a bit more grinding/cleanup with MIG but the time saved in the actual welding process makes up for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzzzz Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) With TIG fitup is critical. No gaps wider then the thickness of the filler wire. Cleanliness is also very important especially on the back side of the panels. IMHO, I've found no difference in thin panel warp between MIG and TIG. You do have to a a bit more grinding/cleanup with MIG but the time saved in the actual welding process makes up for that. Fit up makes a big difference and so does surface prep work. Any grease or dirt will ruin any chance of a good weld.On the front and the back of weld as stated earlier. Cup size will also effect the HAZ area. Gas lenses are good for aluminum and you can reduce the flow rate of shielding gas or if you have to stick the tungsten out further than a cup width. Smaller cup = smaller HAZ also. I wouldn't use a gas lense for stainless either. The smaller the cup the better for stainless. Just my .02. I clean the surface areas with acetone as the last step of prep. Edited August 14, 2012 by ozzzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snailed Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) Keeping tungsten sharp and clean is an important thing to be diligent about as well. The sharper the point the more focused the heat. Edited August 14, 2012 by Snailed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zman0690 Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 Well Snailed you nailed it. Found that the pulse was really my problem. Set the machine to 50 while only using about 40A and I was able to get a great bead. I owe you a big thanks cause everyone else I asked kept telling me to use pulse for thin sheet. Maybe I just couldn't get the settings right but I can't imagine a better weld than what I'm getting now. Now on to patches and stitching up the car, this is gonna take a while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zman0690 Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 Well Snailed you nailed it. Found that the pulse was really my problem. Set the machine to 50 while only using about 40A and I was able to get a great bead. I owe you a big thanks cause everyone else I asked kept telling me to use pulse for thin sheet. Maybe I just couldn't get the settings right but I can't imagine a better weld than what I'm getting now. Now on to patches and stitching up the car, this is gonna take a while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snailed Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Well Snailed you nailed it. Found that the pulse was really my problem. Set the machine to 50 while only using about 40A and I was able to get a great bead. I owe you a big thanks cause everyone else I asked kept telling me to use pulse for thin sheet. Maybe I just couldn't get the settings right but I can't imagine a better weld than what I'm getting now. Now on to patches and stitching up the car, this is gonna take a while! Cool, glad to help. If you want to use pulse I can help you set that up too. I personally don't use it very often (just not in the habit I guess) but it can help reduce your total heat into a weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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