makaofox Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) Well doing some searching on numerous threads here and on supra forums about a jz series swap into my 76 280z. Just finished refreshing the L28 motor and I want to drive that a bit before going onto a 1jz or 2jz swap. But I want to gather further info on the swap and start collecting parts. Im currently helping a friend build his 2jz 240z, but I also want to put more info on the swap out there. So far I have a basic list and a detailed understanding of na to t. I just want to know which is better suited your my needs (or yours). Im looking at 450whp and an na to t looks cheaper than the 2jz but looks about the same as a 1jz? Buying a single turbo na to t is amazingly cheap but the ge you are dealing with the dizzy and that could be an issue. Ive seen it fit under the z hood just fine though, in the few recent threads. Any clarification on which is better choice for a given reason please feel free to comment. Any way here is what I have so far, please feel free to correct me, elaborate more on a topic and generally add to it (such as which brand you used and the like). I want to be able to save and and read it and start processing my ideas. 1jz/2jz Datsun 240z/280z Swap Specs from a few builds: 1: Engine Specs will be as follows: Eric Noss 3zc USDM 2jz-gte Turbonetics T4 76mm SDS Stand Alone Engine Management W58 Transmission (until it breaks) Aeromotive Stealth A100 Fuel Cell HKS SSQV Tial 44mm MSV Wastegate Greddy Intake manifold with Q45 tb (wont fit) GREX Oil Cooler HKS SSQV Bov Unorthodox Underdrive Pullies Titan Motorsports Fuel Rail Siemens 850cc injectors Aeromotive Regulator -10 Feed, -8 return Fluidyne Radiator Dual FAL fans Gigantic Greddy Fmic (doubt it will fit) 3" IC piping Titan Motorsports Engine Mounts Clutch Masters Twin Disc Clutch 3 or 3.5 Exhaust with Apex-i Race Muffler Intake manifold w/ 90mm billet TB Chasebays.com wiring harness Luis z32 2jz engine specs: Drivetrain: ATB lsd Quaife, Driveshaftshop aluminum driveshaft, Getrag 6speed. Exceedy carbon carbon clutch 3.4L motor, BC internals. custom intake manifold. Accufab throttle body, 1050cc injectors. twin bosche 044 fuel pumps, Garret GT42R. 4" exhaust that splits to dual 3" to freeflow resinators and dual Apex Nur Spec exhaust. Greddy exhaust Manifold and greddy open wastegate. Kevlar timing belt. Titan cam gears, titan fuel rail, arp head studs, arp main studs hks head gasket, custom powersteering resivoir, 3" stainless IC pipes. Custom FMIC, custom radiator, wire harness tuck, Engine Management: Aem ems, Aem injector driver box, HKS dual spark ignition Things needed for swap (General list): -1jz-gte motor from a soarer, chaser, mk3 supra rear sump (91-95 vvti 96+). -2jz-ge motor from a soarer, chaser, aristo, mk4 supra and altezza rear sump (91-96 vvti 97+) -2jz-gte motor from a aristo and supra mk4 rear sump (91-97 vvti 98+) -Custom adaptor plate from SWAP1UZ.com or on ebay (snomagt1) for z32,z33,z34 trans -Pair of Jaguar XJS V12 engine mounts or hockey pucks -Custom cross member, beta-motorsports -Cut trans mount ears, possible custom trans mount -23.5"x11.75"x4†Universal Intercooler Core from ebay to fabricate FMIC -Turbo: Garret GTX 3071-R, 3076-R or Borg Warner EFR 6258, 6758, or 7064 -Chasebays wiring harness -3in stainless steel IC piping -Custom intake manifold or ebay greddy replica -Throttle body ebay something less than 90mm greater than 65mm -Fuel rail with atleast 440cc injector’s ebay aiming for 800cc -Exhaust manifold eBay; make sure to have proper flange ie T25, T3, T4, twin scroll -Arp head studs, main studs, exhaust studs etc -Waste gate at least 38 or 44mm - twin bosche 044 fuel pumps no intank pumps for s30 or 255 walbro GSL392 fuel pump -Engine management either AEM EMS or Haltech etc -Headgasket (stock or 2.5mm) and gasket refresh kit for entire motor -HKS F-CON is piggy back for stock ecu fuel and ignition management -10an Feed and -6 or -8an return fuel line -3in downpipe and 3in exhaust -50mm bov -For 2jz-ge na to t use 92+ V6 4Runner dizzy cap and rotor PN19101-65040 clears T-61 turbo -HKS 272 cams and cam gears -300zx 90-96 na or tt trans, 350z 03-08 or 370z 09-2013 -jz clutch, flywheel, throwout bearing ect -Custom driveshaft -New water pump, oil pump -fuel pressure regulator -6-rib 990mm belt of a d17 honda civic for a 1jz with no PS or AC -upgraded map sensor General info about non-turbo to turbo setup Copied from Clubna-t: Hopefully, by being on this website, you understand the basics of the 2jz series of engines. In the United States, Toyota released "technically" 2 versions of the 2jz motor, the GTE and the GE.... both come standard with DOHC, 24valves, EFI, etc... what else can you expect from Toyota? The basic differences between the GE and GTE (not comparing either VVTI editions): -Most obvious difference to anyone familiar with engines is the TURBOS. The GE has none, that’s what the 'T' in GTE means. -Another is the style of intake manifold, the GE has a manifold developed for more torque development in the lower-part of the rpm band vs the GTE's short runner type. The GE doesn’t have more torque; it’s just that it develops more than it would if it had a GTE-style intake manifold. Hope you knew that. -Compression, the GE runs a 10:1 compression ratio and the GTE runs an 8.5:1 compression ratio. The differences are obtained through a thicker headgasket (.2mm for GE vs 1.6mm for GTE) and lower compression pistons on the GTE. The higher compression allows the GE motor to make the most of its power since it lacks turbos to begin with. -Injectors and Airflow sensors, the GE runs 330cc top-feed high impedance Denso-style injectors and uses a Karman Vortex air-metering sensor to read how much air volume is being ingested. The GTE runs 540cc side-feed low impedance injectors (though uses a resistor pack to raise the impedance for the ECU's sake)... measured through a hotwire MAF sensor. The GE's airflow restriction is around 450hp from the stock AFM and the GTE is around 650-700hp depending on several factors. -The heads are slightly different. Some say the GE flows better than the GTE, though no concrete numbers have come from a flowbench to prove it. The GTE motor has larger intake ports on the head whereas the GE has larger exhaust ports on the head. -The exhaust manifold and intake manifolds port spacing and studs are completely different and will not work with one another unless some machining is involved with the manifolds themselves. There are people who have successfully grafted the upper part of the GTE intake manifold onto the lower part of the GE manifold. -The GE motor runs a distributor-based ignition system with spark plug wires and a single coil. The GTE runs coil-on-plug ignition with individual coils for every plug. The distributor gets in the way sometimes of the turbo intake pipe These are just motor differences, there are many little others such as oil squirters, oil feed/return lines, transmissions, etc. Now onto Similarities: Both the GE and GTE bottom ends are VERY strong. The only difference being the pistons themselves. That’s right, the rods and crankshaft are the SAME parts! The 2jz motor itself was DESIGNED to be turbocharged from the beginning and is built VERY strongly from the factory. No one yet knows the limits of a GE setup, though there are several 1000whp setups on the GTE with the stock bottom-end. Dave H uses a GE motor and ran a 9sec 1/4 mile time with the stock GE block (a spare 220k mile motor to be specific!) All in all, it is very doubtful that you will need to build your motor when designing a NA-T setup unless you're gunning for ridiculous amounts of power. The stock cams are roughly the SAME. Designing a Turbokit for the 2JZ-GE Going the DIY -The Price is a good bit cheaper. -The installation is a bit more difficult since you're putting together parts that weren’t necessarily designed for one another and may require some fabrication -Used parts don’t last as long and a lot of times they just aren’t as good of a quality as new stuff is (new stuff is ALWAYS coming out for the GE car nowadays). Buying a Kit Is much simpler and easier to follow. You will still learn a lot about your motor if you install your kit yourself and still have the opportunity to purchase some used parts if you can find good deals, etc. Buying a kit you KNOW that it will work correctly if it’s a reputable shop such as BoostLogic, Sound Performance, PHR, Dave H, etc. You can purchase a turbo kit, fuel kit, aem kit, and be done with it and have a monster on your hands. They literally come with everything you need. Parts in a Typical Basic NA-T kit (note this is not everything you need) Turbo manifold (there are log and header types, headers flow for more power, but spool slower) Wastegate (bigger you go, the more control you have and less chances for spikes and creep) Downpipe (connects to your exhaust) Intake pipe (connects from your turbo inlet to your filter or AFM) Oil feed and drain lines (feed and drain oil to/from the turbo) Turbocharger (large varieties of these, this is what makes boost!) In the basic kit you usually run directly off the wastegate spring. Most kits keep you running on the stock compression levels (10:1 remember?) in the first "stage" or two, until you get serious about power anyways. This results in quicker spoolup and better off-boost response but you cannot run as much boost without risking serious damage to your motor. -10:1 compression limits you to around 7-8psi without fiddling with your ignition timing (stock timing has a big "spike" of advance around 4000-4500rpms that will cause detonation if running more than 8-9psi and the base timing is not retarded 3-4 degrees) -stock injectors will also limit you powerwise. I've seen several setups make OVER 400whp on the stock fuel setup (upgraded fuel pump) but its still best to upgrade them (and with a way to control them too -- SAFC, emanage, MAP ECU, AEM standalone, etc.)... generally I wouldn’t go over 350whp with the stock 330s. -intercooler options, some kits come with some don’t, most of the lower-priced ones don’t and you are left to fend for yourself in the intercooler arena... you NEED one to run more than 5 or 6psi realiably -strong turbo manifold, either a strong cast unit or a strong (IE 321 Stainless Steel) tubular header manifold... Dave H's manifold runs via Weld Els and it is VERY strong and beefy. His manifold is more of a hybrid, not really a log and not really a header. -turbocharger to suit your powerband preferences (a later discussion perhaps?). Most people go with a T04E or PTE style turbo that makes around 400whp at 10psi of boost. EDIT: Thanks for suprapunk pointing out something: If you are building your own kit: Ensure that your exhaust turbine lines up with your manifold Like make sure its a T4 hotside and a T4 flange on the manifold, and make sure you have the correct hotside outlet as well to mate to your downpipe (v-band, on-center, etc) -35mm wastegate, Tial or HKS brands are good stuff. Many kits are running 38 and 40mm gates, which is fine, they cost more. Depending on how much power you'll be making with your turbo, you need to decide what to run unless a kit-maker already picks one. -fuel and a method of controlling that fuel to supply enough for your power needs. On more basic setups I recommend the Emanage blue. Affordable and can tune your car very nicely. Most basic kits can make good power with MKIII Supra Turbo injectors. They are also top feed (but low impedance, need resistor box or inline resistors) and denso style but flow 440cc instead of 330. The Lexus V8 AFM modification is affordable and can make the 440s easily tunable with a simple fuel controller. -a FRONT MOUNT INTERCOOLER. Do it once, do it right. The sidemount jobs cannot compare with the Front mounts other than being harder to see. You can pick up good quality units off ebay for under $300 these days. -A 3 inch downpipe and 3" exhaust system! At least 3 inches all the way back if you can. Turbos need FLOW, give them a bigger exhaust and they will spool faster and give you MORE POWER. -GOOD spark plugs and good conditioned ignition system (get a new rotor and cap for your distributor pronto!). NGK 3330s and NGK 6097s are both great plugs, they are pregapped at .031 which is perfect for turbo applications under 19-20psi of boost -Oil feed/drain lines properly sized. Typical setup is -3 or -4 AN feed with a -10 (no smaller) drain line. Garret turbos require much less oil than most people think; and dumping high pressure (60psi+) oil into it and then having a small return line blows the oil seals on the turbo very quickly. You want NO flow resistance on the return line. You can do this by having a BIG return line like a -10 or use a oil-line restrictor (can pick them up at atpturbo.com). IF you buy a premade kit that comes with a oil-line kit then don't fret, its already been tested and setup with the turbo you'll be running from the kit. Keep in MIND!!! That all of this is how to get power reliably out of the MOTOR. The transmission and the rear end are completely different subjects. Your stock clutch WILL NOT withstand more than 300whp and last for very long. Your stock transmission WILL NOT WITHSTAND more than 400-450whp for very long and driven hard (your mileage may vary). Autos are very different from the stock 5-speeds. Do your research on driveline modifications! In the bigger power arena, you need to bypass several obstacles. One most notably being the stock ECU with regards to fuel metering. There are only so many bandaids you can run before you run out of airflow (even with the V8 AFM). This means by going to speed density! Speed density is a completely different way of measuring the air intake in the engine vs the mass-air system used in the stock GE. The stock GE system uses Karman Vortex as its way of measuring air. If you've ever taken apart your intake and see the sensor itself, you'll see a waffle-style (or honeycomb) front on it. What this does it cause small vortexes to form after the air enters the system. The more air that enters, the more vortexes (and the larger they get). The quantity and amplitude of these vortexes is measured by a small speaker inside the housing. You can see it if you look carefully. Do not damage the honeycomb up front, you will cause the sensor to read bad. Speed density uses two seperate sensors to measure how much air has entered the system. -The first sensor is a pressure sensor that senses how much pressure or vacuum is in the intake system. This is called the "MAP sensor" MAP is short for "manifold absolute pressure". By absolute, this means TOTAL pressure including atmospheric pressure (which is 1 BAR at sea level) by the way. If someone has a 3 bar map sensor, it means it can read 29.4psi of pressure ABOVE atmospheric (14.7psi = 1 BAR). Obviously, this is a little sensor, and causes no intake restrictions of ANY sort. -The second sensor is an air temperature sensor. When air cools, it becomes more dense, with more oxygen molecules. This sensor allows the ECU to compensate with more fuel to keep a safe mixture when the temperature rises or drops. It is called an IAT sensor - or "intake air temperature" sensor. This sensor also causes no restriction. Almost all aftermarket ECU solutions are Speed Density (also called MAP-based) and this includes the AEM ECU. It can run via AFM, but its a waste not to utilize the extra flow and control with MAP. The "MAP ECU" is a piggyback solution for the stock ECU. Like the older VPC, it translates a MAP-based signal into an AFM signal that the ECU can use (and isnt any the wiser). Both the MAP ECU and AEM allow you to run MUCH larger injectors. Ok I'm running a speed density system, I am cool! Not so fast! You need BIG fuel injectors for that too. Luckily, the stock fuel rail is a top-feed unit, has an FPR plug on it that is right around 1/4" NPT in size, and has a good enough internal diameter to flow enough fuel for over 700whp. Boost Logic, SP, Titan, etc now offer NA-T fuel systems that either use the stock rail or replace the whole thing completely. These systems are generally customizable to the size injectors you want and most use TWIN Walbro Fuel pumps. Nice eh? After that, you will already need to be running a GOOD turbo header... the cast jobs work well in the low-power arena, but with the big boys it’s all about FLOW.... and cast units DONT On the header setups, you will already be using a larger wastegate (40mm+) and at least a 3" downpipe. A lot of companies will have a 4" downpipe and midpipe combo to upgrade to if you're going to be making big power (don’t really need that unless you're hitting over 700-750hp). A FRONT MOUNT INTERCOOLER!!! A turbo that can flow the amount of air you want. Do some research, because there is a HUGE turbo selection out there and new ones are coming out all the time that offer better and faster spool, more flow and power, and more extras At this point you MUST be running a thicker headgasket. Why? Because you cannot make over 400-450whp reliably with the stock 10:1 compression. Stock SupraTTs come with 8.5:1 compression and can run lots of boost from the factory. YOU can get to this point by running a thicker headgasket. Your stock gasket is very thin... like .2mm vs the GTE gasket which is 1.6. Do not worry about squish-volume problems too much, since the primary source of compression drop on the 2jz-gte is achieved by running a much thicker headgasket. 2.5mm will get you to 8.5:1 compression. The only problem left is ignition, which can be solved by running lower gap on your plugs and an HKS DLI. It boosts the ignition signal and will allow you to still make spark at higher boost when it would normally be "blown out" from the excessive pressure. After this point, you can start tuning, running race gas and making BIG power. The stock GE intake manifold (EGR delete please!) can flow over 800-850hp and there's no point in upgrading to a high-flow unit (such as the DaveH unit) until you eclipse this point. There are lots of little things this guide didn’t have for big power, which is detailed tuning instructions (get it tuned by a professional if you don’t know what you're doing!), and small tidbits you should already know. (ie Beaded intercooler pipes, new gaskets for all hardware, etc.) Please understand that this is just a basic blow by blow of how to obtain power from this motor. If you can understand this so far, then congratulations, you can probably handle the whole deal just fine. Edited November 12, 2012 by makaofox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snailed Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 God, that's a lot of words for one post. I'm assuming that's a collection of other posts with some added by you? Check other peoples facts. There are several things I see that don't jive with other info I have read (not that what I read was correct, but it warrents checking out all the "facts" you collect). 1Bar is 14.5psi for example. I decided to go with a 1JZ-gte with an R154 for my own 240Z. I drive a W55 trans, with the CDD removed, everyday in my lexus and it's horrible. The worst transmission I have owned. I can't even imagine putting one in a 400hp+ Z and suffering the terrible shifts for the short period before it breaks. Then you are rewarded by having to change everything to fit a proper trans like the R154. None for me, thanks. I guess it depends on what you are willing to take on and what you are already familiar with. Most of that info could apply to any type of gasoline engine with a turbo so I assume this is your first turbo project. Keep reading and filtering out the good stuff and you'll come up with a good plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaofox Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 It was alot lol. I tried putting all the info I could gather in a thread. Starting with my own info and some from clubna-t. Generally to my knowledge 1bar is like 15psi? right? Thats not important though, what is important is the map sensor lol. NiceI want to go 1jz with a 5sp z32 trans. I used to own a z32TT so that technically was my first turbo project but with the s30 I want to go all out and learn all I possibly can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geno750 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 If you're going to cross from a Toyota motor to Nissan trans why not go with a Z33 trans? They seem to be cheaper and more readily available than the Z32 box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infiltrate2000 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) z32 trans is stronger than z33, well early z33 had problems. Maka, why even go with z32, when you have option like the r154? R154 are real strong, if you get a low mileage one, even better or rebuilt one. Had one in my 500hp supra, it held up, only downside it shifts like garbage. Edited November 12, 2012 by infiltrate2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaofox Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Becasue I like the z32 trans lol. Honestly its not a hassle finding one and its one that im firmiliar with. The R154 is great but around our area they come with a steep price and as you stated shifts badly. But for a z32 trans you can find a good one for $200 and those rebuild kits arent expensive either and throw on a z1 short shifter and you have an amazing combo. The adaptor plate is great because it has the holes for the z32, z33 and even the new z34 trans, which is great for anyone really. Having owned a TT and an NA they are pretty beefy trans that can handle 500hp like its nothing. My goals are modest so a z32 trans is more than enough for me and in the end the cost will either balance out or be much cheaper. If I was able to get a trans from the 05+ z33 at a reasonable price that could be an option. But for the moment its not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaofox Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 Figured id update this after a year, I pulled the trigger and slowly will build a 2jz z. I purchased a 94 2jzge from a supra with ecu and uncut harness but no trans. I have a holset he351cw and I plan to get around 400rwhp with a super quick spool. Dropped the z33 trans idea just because its too expensive at nearly 2k your 1/3 from a v160 lol. So sticking with the w58 and replacing it when needed. Sticking to my r180 welded diff till she blows, then aiming for either r200 with z31 axles or the Subaru r180. Haltech ps500 ecu is also what I planned to go with. Havent done much lately, ive been collecting parts and I want to do it all at once. Have to clean up the block and put arp studs, TT headgasket and redo piston rings and redo the head. It will be a slow build but ive built the z to the point all im upgrading is the fuel system and drop in the motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2Zs Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Sweet!!! glad you are still around. Post mucho pictures when get into the guts of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaofox Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 So heres an update. My 2jzge should be coming back from the machine should early August hopefully in the first week. So far out of the 2 years ive been collecting alot of parts. So far: -2006 350z transmission less than 100k miles seems to shift smooth. -Austin Hokes bracket for z33 trans amazing quality, would buy anything from this guy! -Collins adapters brought the 700hp kit even though im only aiming for 400whp. Says I dont have to mill down the bellhousing! Thats a plus. -Betamotorsports no longer makes his crossmember due to unfortunate events. But I managed to find a new one! Craigslist win. -Wiring specialties made me basically a custom 2jzge to t wiring harness. Took awhile but the quality is amazing! The price is worth plug and play feature. -front facing intake manifold another craigslist win -Tial wastegate and BOV brought from a member on here. -Shortened the shifter linkage for the z33 trans it was pretty easy. -Wolf creek racing axles awesome stuff, expensive but so far on the L28 its been running well. Hoping the 2j power wont snap them. -R200 Techno toy tuning mustache bar, great stuff. -Ron Tyler rear diff mount great quality. -Isuzu NPR diesel dump truck intercool. Has the perfect bend and curve. -AEM ecu -Bosch 044 fuel pumps -Still need to order my fuel lines and fittings thats $500-$600 :/ going -8an Feed and -6an return. -Holset HE351CW turbo from a dodge. Should spool dumb fast and low. Looking for a lagless set up and I think this is it. I know ill need the exhaust set up going 3in. Drive shaft Wiring is going to be a pain even with the harness removing the old stuff and being careful as my car still runs just fine. Dont know what else ill need as of yet. And btw that was a 76 datsun 620 but sold it sadly. One day ill get another! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroegarn Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Looks good and thumbs up for your perseverance! I have a 1JZ-GTE with the same turbo HE351CW and it spools quite ok, perhaps not dumb fast, but I dont have anything to compare with? On the 1bar map I get full boost at 3500 rpm and on the 1.75 bar map I get full boost at around 4100 rpm. I suppose that i quite ok, the car puts out 396 whp@1bar and 512 whp@1.75bar on a mustang dyno so it pulls for sure... well actually only slips with street tires (even with 275/40 on the rear) , Kumho V700 ready in the garage though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaofox Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Those are great numbers! The 1j is a 2.5 so the 2j's extra 0.5 liter will help it spool a smidge quicker. Ive searched online and 2 locals ran the same turbo and one bragged about 1 bar by 2500rpm. Only mods on his 2j were cams 272, 750cc injectors, exhaust, intake and tune it was a sc300 na-t as well so the higher compression could help. Now I dont know how true 2500 rpm is but even at your 3500 at 1 bar is pretty good. I would be more than happy with 400rwhp. My motor should be done soon, im looking up now for my fuel set up. An fittings and hoses are NOT cheap . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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