280ZX Chopper Wheel w/ Platinum Series ECU's?

[ryan95i4]

For those of you running either PS 500,1000 or 2000 are any of you running the stock CAS and dizzy?

 

Am i understanding correctly that the 280ZX chopper wheel will work, but only in batch fire?  And to run semi sequential a Z31 wheel is needed due to the larger slot to be used as a home signal?

 

 

Has anyone tried using DIYautotune's 12-1 chopper wheel with Haltech?

[ryan95i4]

In case anyone else ever has the same question, Haltech Support confirmed for me that the 280ZX wheel limits you to distributor ignition and multi-point injection with the haltech ecu's.  If you want to run wasted spark, direct fire, semi-seq, seq (depending on 500/1000 or 2000 ECU), the VG30 wheel is needed otherwise.

 

Also for wiring up the 280ZX CAS:

 

 

Hello Ryan,

 

Thanks for using Haltech Engine Management on your L28 swapped 240Z. I’ll do what I can to help you sort out the trigger wiring, as that’s easily the most important, and sometimes the most confusing part of the installation.

 

First, lets sort out which type of optical trigger you have. I believe there were three types of Nissan optical sensors, with the difference being the number of unique windows on the inner track (hopefully this makes sense) Here’s some information from the ECU Manager software’s F1 help files:

 

Nissan triggers are optical triggers with a wheel with two tracks. One with large slots and another with 360 small slots.

Nissan 1st generation triggers have one unique slot and all remaining slots are the same size. The typical slot patterns for home window teeth are 2,2,2,8 for FJ20 engines or 2,2,2,2,2,8 for RB30 engines.

Nissan 2nd Generation triggers come with 2 unique windows. A typical pattern is 4,8,12,8 that can be found on most CA18 engines. Early RB series engines use this pattern also with six windows.

Type 3 Nissan triggers come with all unique window sizes. A typical pattern is 4,8,12,16 and is commonly found on SR20 and late RB series engines.

Can you check and confirm which type of optical wheel your 83 engine uses  ?

 

Secondly, with regards to the actual wiring, the sensor connections will be

 

+12v

Ground

Trigger +   (360 slots)

Home + (6 Slots)

 

The Wiring on the Sprint ECU harness (and other Haltech universal harnesses) is configured for engines with separate Crank and Cam sensors, therefore the Trigger (Crank) sensor wires are in one of the 4 core cables, and the Home (Cam) sensor wires are in the other 4 core cable.   The 4 wires in each 4 core cable are as follows:

 

Red = +12v

Blue = Ground

Yellow = Trigger+ / Home+

Green = Trigger - / Home -

 

The Green Trigger- / Home- wires are used ONLY for magnetic reluctor style sensors and would not be used for Optical or Hall effect sensors. **

 

Therefore your sensor connection will need one +12v from one of the two red wires, Ground from one of the two blue wires, and the yellow Trigger + wire and the other yellow Home + wire.   

 

**On applications with a single CAS (Crank/Cam Angle sensor) with both Trigger and Home signals present, such as the Nissan Optical CAS, some installers (including myself) choose to simplify and cleanup the wiring by swapping the Green Trigger- wire from the Trigger- position on the ECU, to the Home+ position on the ECU.  After that pin swap, the 4 core ‘Trigger’ cable now contains +12v, Ground, Trigger+ and Home+, exactly the wires needed for the CAS. The ‘Home’ 4 core cable can then be removed from the harness.

 

 

 

 

Thanks,
Eric Gash

Manager: Haltech USA

 

Haltech Engine Management Systems
Email:   eric@Haltech.com
Web:     www.haltech.com
Phone:    760 598 1941

Fax:          760 598 1987

 

 

 

 

Edit 7/10/13 --

 

Just adding this bit, while the Haltech email explains which wires to use in their harness with the 280ZX CAS, I wasnt sure which wires from the CAS carries which signal (Home vs Trigger).  Chemicalblue helped me out with this bit last night (THANK YOU!). The factory CAS has 4 wires, Black (GND), Red (12V), White and Green.  The Haltech Trigger wire will go to the CAS Green wire; the Haltech Home wire will go to the CAS White wire. 
 

I'll confirm this once I have everything in the car, but ChemicalBlue has his car up and running this way.

Edited July 10, 2013 by ryan95i4

[osirus9]

Great info! I will be using this knowledge when I set up my Haltech. I was considering using an MS setup too, but I've done a haltech e6k before and even though it was old as hell it worked very well.

 

2 questions though, I see the Sprint 500 does not support closed loop, so are you able to get good mileage? Do you use your car as a daily? (kinda off topic, sorry)

 

Also, and more on topic, can you use the VG30 wheel with the L28 engine somehow? Can you fit it in the 280ZX CAS for instance? I'd like to run wasted spark off of the distributor at least for now, then maybe upgrade to COP (same as direct fire?) later

[osirus9]

So after talking with Haltech tech support I'm probably going to go with the sport 1000 because its got data logging and closed loop functionality. It can also do direct fire on a COP setup which is pretty slick. The thing costs a lot more but it looks worth it. Are you seeing any of these features as major issues with your sprint 500, or is the extra stuff a waste of money?

[HowlerMonkey]

The 280zx turbo chopper wheel doesn't have any "cylinder 1" reference........it just supplies information that a cylinder is firing.

 

Since the car has a distributor and uses batch firing of the injectors, it doesn't matter.

 

The VG30e and et wheels on single cam cars have cylinder 1 identification necessary for sequential firing and I use them in the stock 280zx turbo distributor to run a infiniti M30 sequential ecu.

 

Taking it further all the way to distributorless can probably well be done with the vg30e wheels but not on a Nissan OEM ecu as the distributorless Nissan ecus require a different wheel again.........but it's smaller diameter so modifications have to be done to fit it physically.

[ryan95i4]

So after talking with Haltech tech support I'm probably going to go with the sport 1000 because its got data logging and closed loop functionality. It can also do direct fire on a COP setup which is pretty slick. The thing costs a lot more but it looks worth it. Are you seeing any of these features as major issues with your sprint 500, or is the extra stuff a waste of money?

 

 

The 500 has the same number of drivers as the 1000, so injection and ignition type capabilities are the same with both (they both have 8 drivers - 4 igntion/4 injector).  I am running semi-sequential injection and LS coils.

 

If you want to run full sequential and direct fire on a 6 cylinder motor, you will need to step up to the 2000 which has 14 drivers.

 

Also, the 500 *DOES* have data logging.  I use it pretty much every time i have a laptop in the car. The 500 data logging is onboard, just like the 1000 and 2000. 

 

Another thing, the 500 *DOES* have closed loop O2 control.  I use it as well, I tuned my fuel map on the street to get it close, then turned on O2 cloosed loop control and the car cruises and idles at 14.7 a/f perfectly.

 

The only thing i wish I had in the 500 that comes in the 1000 is closed loop idle control, but if i really wanted it, I could add an i/o expander box and then I would have it available.

 

 

The differences b/t the 500 and the 1000 are minimal.  the 1000 and 500 have the same number of injector drivers, the same number of ignition drivers, the same number of Digital Pulsed Outputs (DPOs).  With the 1000, you gain anti-lag(not to be confused with 2 step/aux rev limiter, which they both have), dedicated closed loop idle control and boost control (altho with the 500 you can still setup a boost control solenoid using a generic DPO, which gives a 2D map just look the boost control option on the 1000, so this is really null except that it would require using one of the 500 DPOs).  Essentially the 1000 has extra outputs dedicated to idle and boost control, wherein the 500 requires you to use one of the four DPOs for those. 

 

Everything else is essentially the same b/t the two, you are just gaining a few extra DPOs with the 1000.  The 2000 is the box that really separates itself from the rest because of the extra injector and ignition drivers.

[ryan95i4]

Great info! I will be using this knowledge when I set up my Haltech. I was considering using an MS setup too, but I've done a haltech e6k before and even though it was old as hell it worked very well.

 

2 questions though, I see the Sprint 500 does not support closed loop, so are you able to get good mileage? Do you use your car as a daily? (kinda off topic, sorry)

 

Also, and more on topic, can you use the VG30 wheel with the L28 engine somehow? Can you fit it in the 280ZX CAS for instance? I'd like to run wasted spark off of the distributor at least for now, then maybe upgrade to COP (same as direct fire?) later

 

 

Just to reiterate, the 500 *DOES* support closed loop O2 control. Here's a quick screenshot to show it (also, i opened the onboard datalogger to show the 500 datalogs as well---im not sure why you were told the 500 doesnt do this).

 

 

 

 

Yes, the VG30 wheel fits in the ZX CAS.  This is what I am using.

 

Here is a pic of the Vg30 wheel vs the 280zx wheel.  The difference between the two is the VG30 wheel has a home window, where one slot is larger than the rest.  This will be needed if you want to run anything other than wasted sparked/batch injection.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The best thing you can do is go here:

 

http://www.haltech.com/downloads-2/ecu-software-firmware/

 

Download ECU Manager and play around in it.  I essentially had my car setup before I even bought an ECU. The download will include generic setups for all 3 ECUS (500,1000, 2000) and you can really see which options are available with each first hand before paying for anything.   You cant go wrong with any of them, it would just be silly to get the 1000 b/c you didnt think the 500 does closed loop o2 control or datalogs when it does both.  Get the 1000 if you want the extra outputs, as that is essentially the main difference b/t the two.  Get the 2000 if you want to run full sequential and have every option available.

Edited October 25, 2013 by ryan95i4

[osirus9]

ryan95i4

Thank you so much for taking the time to clarify all that for me! I was really scratching my head when I was talking to Haltech tech support because they were giving me some conflicting information, but what you posted makes way more sense. Definitely going with the 500 now. I don't really need the extra inputs as I plan to just use a manual boost controller and no meth/water injection or 2 step rev limiters or anything fancy like that. Maybe they meant the 500 doesn't have internal logging? I'm not really sure. Also thanks for explaining the difference between the wheels, I am definitely going to copy your setup at least as far as triggering spark goes.

 

So I can just take a 280ZX distributor and swap the wheels with that of a z31, and nothing else is needed? That's a pretty awesome bolt on solution for getting better than wasted spark/batch injection. I'm a bit leery of actually tuning the car myself since I'm terrified I'll blow up my engine, but my tuner will enjoy the extra options I'm sure. Maybe I'll try a rough tune to get it driveable this time and actually drive to my tuner... we'll see.

 

Thanks for posting all this info up, I for one found it extremely helpful and will be referencing it once I start installing my sprint 500.

[ryan95i4]

ryan95i4

Thank you so much for taking the time to clarify all that for me! I was really scratching my head when I was talking to Haltech tech support because they were giving me some conflicting information, but what you posted makes way more sense. Definitely going with the 500 now. I don't really need the extra inputs as I plan to just use a manual boost controller and no meth/water injection or 2 step rev limiters or anything fancy like that. Maybe they meant the 500 doesn't have internal logging? I'm not really sure. Also thanks for explaining the difference between the wheels, I am definitely going to copy your setup at least as far as triggering spark goes.

 

So I can just take a 280ZX distributor and swap the wheels with that of a z31, and nothing else is needed? That's a pretty awesome bolt on solution for getting better than wasted spark/batch injection. I'm a bit leery of actually tuning the car myself since I'm terrified I'll blow up my engine, but my tuner will enjoy the extra options I'm sure. Maybe I'll try a rough tune to get it driveable this time and actually drive to my tuner... we'll see.

 

Thanks for posting all this info up, I for one found it extremely helpful and will be referencing it once I start installing my sprint 500.

 

 

 

As far as datalogging, I believe the 1000 and 2000 allow for logging even when a laptop isnt hooked up, which if youre building a track,drift, etc car may prove useful.  But for 90% of people, the only time youre logging is when you have a laptop in the car anyways and tuning either on the dyno or on the street. 

 

You will have a dedicated 2 step/aux rev limiter with the 500 even if you dont plan on using it...no anti-lag though.  And with the 4 DPO's you still have the ability to add features as you see fit (and if you need more outputs, you can add I/O Expander boxes to get almost every option).  One output is for the tach, one for thermofan, and the other 2 can be used for just about anything else. Right now, i have my 4 DPO's setup as tach output, fan 1, fan 2 and a IAC.  My next upgrade, I'll probably change one of those to control a boost solenoid (have both fans come on at the same time instead of being controlled independently).  But to give you an idea, you can have the generic outputs setup as just about anything you want (water/meth injection, boost control, air temp/cool temp/running time/rpm/MAP/speed switches, aux fuel pump control, shift light, dual intake valves, vtec, etc, etc. Grab the software from their site, load up the generic 500 setup file and and look through the pulldown menus in the outputs section of the setup box to see the full list.

 

If you dont need more than that, the 500 works great. 1000 is when more inputs/outputs are desired. 2000 is the big boy .

 

 

The CAS wheel swap is a simple solution, you just need to swap the wheel.  Then just insert the correct settings in the software. Take your time with the wiring and get it right the first time, building the harness is where i spent most of my time.

 

As far as getting a base tune, youll just want to turn off all correction maps and start with the base maps.  Work on idle first, then no load through out the rpm range, then low load, etc working your way up.  Keep an eye on A/F and start rich and work your way lean.  As for timing, I kept timing really conservative until I was comfortable with my A/F numbers.

[osirus9]

Thanks for the advice ryan, I'll be using it probably next winter after I finish accumulating all the parts I need. I just got an F54 block with flat tops and a distributor from the same car and I've got a p90 sitting on the shelf waiting to go. I still need the sprint 500, probably an MSD blaster coilpack, the z31 degree wheel, various other sensors and wiring, and a turbo and an exhaust manifold. I've got plans for it all, just need time and money to catch up with my dreams haha.

 

Seriously so tempted to skip painting the car until next year and start on the turbo build now.... arg, but that'd ruin the pristine chassis, and we can't have that.

[thomas461]

I just bought the 2000 to run full sequential fuel and timing. I am searching for the CAS wheel now. Hopefully that isn't too difficult to find. I agree the harness is the most important part of the installation. I am building a break out harnesses for both the coil packs, and the injectors. I will most likely build another for the TPS, IAT, temp sensor, and idle air control valve.

 

Thanks for the wiring and CAS info it is a huge help.

[ryan95i4]

I just bought the 2000 to run full sequential fuel and timing. I am searching for the CAS wheel now. Hopefully that isn't too difficult to find. I agree the harness is the most important part of the installation. I am building a break out harnesses for both the coil packs, and the injectors. I will most likely build another for the TPS, IAT, temp sensor, and idle air control valve.

 

Thanks for the wiring and CAS info it is a huge help.

 

 

Great idea, I also did break out harnesses for the injectors and coil packs, makes install (and any future removal) that much easier. 

 

No problem, hope it helps.  Please share your install as it comes along, would be cool to get the haltech forum a bit more active.

[osirus9]

I'll be posting more on here when I start actually doing my installation. Just have to wait for my car to get back from the body shop in January, plus I can't really start until I get my Senza intake and exhaust manifolds...

 

So I have a ZX distributor that suffered some kind of damage causing the wheel to rub against the sensor. I'm going to use it as a core to get a new distributor from autozone, but where did you source your z31 wheel?

[ryan95i4]

I'll be posting more on here when I start actually doing my installation. Just have to wait for my car to get back from the body shop in January, plus I can't really start until I get my Senza intake and exhaust manifolds...

 

So I have a ZX distributor that suffered some kind of damage causing the wheel to rub against the sensor. I'm going to use it as a core to get a new distributor from autozone, but where did you source your z31 wheel?

 

I bought it from someone here.  Just posted a WTB ad and had a couple people with offers.  Dont forget zcar and zdriver forums as well.

[thomas461]

Geeze it has been almost a year since the Haltech purchase.  The Sport 2000 installation is kicking off this weekend.  My car has been on jackstands since April; only half of the driving season missed.  The cooler months in Atlanta are more enjoyable anyway.  

 

Ryan, I can't thank you enough for the info on the wheel.  Unbelievably, the local pull-a-part only charged me $.50 for the wheel. Is all buttoned up and installed in the distributor.  I had a "while I am here moment" and had a shortened distributor cap made by a fabricator friend of mine.  It looks great and gave me a really clean looking dizzy. 

 

http://my260z.net/?p=1329

 

Hopefully this install goes off without a hitch.  Get the car to run and get it over to a Haltech shop for tuning.