Moridin Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 Have any of you had any experience with dry sumps. I heard quite a bit of horsepower can be gained by this. I would like to know what the costs and parts involved in doing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 I'm soooo confused (which post do I reply to). I've not looked recently, but last I saw, a fairly cheap one was about $600. Your typical dry sump system is a pan (fairly shallow and low volume, an oil pump (belt driven), oil lines, and an oil tank remotely located to hold the oil. The main hp gain (correct me if I am wrong here) is from the lack of "windage" losses as the oil is pretty much removed immediately from the crankcase area. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 you gain more HP from the additional sealing of the combustion chamber due to the increased vacuum caused by the suction of hte pump...we're talking like 5 hp no more. the main reason for this is reliability no loss of oil in corners..... but Terry,, WAY OFF at $600 more like $2500 my drysump pump alone was $900 then the tank was $350, oberg filter $125, over $600 in braided lines, oil pan was $4oo, heater unit $50, drive pulleys were $100, custom drive for crank.. mount for pump to block etc.... need i go on????? totally wasted on the street, also it takes 14 qts of oil for a oil change. and you need this huge tank in back to hold it.. ------------------ Mike mike@fonebooth.com http://www.outlaw-brakes raceparts and brake upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 Hmmm, It sounded a bit low, but it seems I saw this one time, but the system was not a racing set-up but I thought only for a trick steet set-up. Anyway, I stand corrected. Thanks Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 In addition to the cost, you have a more involved vehicle startup procedure. You can't just hop in and turn the key. Here's a rough outline: 1. If the outside temp is below 60 degrees, preheat the oil tank (15 to 60 minutes). 2. Disconnect the scavange pump drive belt, attach a drill motor, and run the scavange pump for a minute to drain the engine sump. 3. Connect the drill motor to the pump side and run the pump for 30 seconds to prelube the engine. Alternatively you can turn the engine over with the starter while leaving the ignition switch off. 4. Turn the ignition on. 5. Hit the starter and fire the engine. Keep the RPMS idling under 1,500 until the engine oil reaches 80% of operating temperature. 6. Hop in and drive away. ------------------ John Coffey johnc@betamotorsports.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RON JONES Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 I know a lot of guys that run Dry sumps at the track.I have never seen anybody prime there motor before they start it.The only time I have seen this done,as John has described,is when an oil change is done.I'm pretty sure this is what He's talking about.I'm only familar with Moroso Drag race Systems.Is this what you mean John? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 What I described was the cold startup procedure for $85,000+ motors in a racing Dodge Viper GTS-R (just ran at Sebring) and for a racing Porsche 996 GT3 RS. The steps involved primarily exist to keep from breaking the scavange and pump drives for the dry sump system itself. I assumed that someone retrofitting a dry sump system to an engine will use racing parts similar to what's installed on the two vehicles listed above. Dry sump systems fitted as factory OEM are designed differently than race-only parts. I've seen scavange and pump drives shear at cold startup when the oil was too cold and when the drainback into the engine sump wasn't cleared before the engine fired. If the engine has been run with the past few hours and the engine oil has retained some heat then you can probably just hop in and fire it up. I even prime the engine (with the starter) in my wet sump 240Z before firing it up on a cold start. It was built loose so it will rattle a lot if its started immediately. ------------------ John Coffey johnc@betamotorsports.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 JohnC, what dry sump system requires such a procedure? Oil is the lifeblood of a 911 and a dry sump is standard with a total of about 13qts. When I drain the tank I get out 10.5+ but it has an internal oil cooler, and another cooler behind the pass headlight and all fed by massive lines. That said, when cold, I crank it right up and give it about 2 mins to warm up before driving off. I would guess mine has at least 175K miles on an untouched bottom end. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RON JONES Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 I do the Same thing with My wet sump on a cold start.And I'm sure the guys I know at the track with the dry sumps do the same thing,I've just never seen any of them prime the motor with a drill before they start it(other than oil change).But then,none of the guys I know have $85,000 Motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 i have a adapter for the drill that the belt goes onto, i always prime the motor first IF its been sitting a few months.. not other wise. most race car pumps are one piece so you cant do as john states, my scavenge pump is attached tothe same shaft as teh pressure side so i dont see how you can scavenge without pressurizing as well??? this will jsut leave the motor with a little oil just like it is running.. i'm running a 3 stage on a little nissan.. but if i started my car up on sat am iwould not use the drill on sunday am.. my car hits 70psi within 2 seconds so its not starting dry...yes and crank for a few seconds BEFORE hitting the ignition on switch.. ------------------ Mike mike@fonebooth.com http://www.outlaw-brakes raceparts and brake upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted March 26, 2001 Author Share Posted March 26, 2001 I don't know to much about dry sumps, but I do know that my father bought one from Claud's Buggies for about $125 (it was 25 years ago and it was for a bug) without the cost of the tank and lines included and he gained upwards of 35-45HP. He didn't install a knew oil pan, but did install a knife edge crank. Maybe it was the crank that gave hime the HP, but he doesn't recall it costing near as much as you guys are saying. Thanks again, Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 My 1974 Alfa Romeo Montreal has a dry sump. That doesn't need priming or any other kind of messing about, you just turn the key, it starts, and you drive away. I've had it for 10 years and it still runs good high oil pressure, even if I fang it. Try hitting this web site http://www.geocities.com/alfamontreal/ and read a bit about the engine, it might help the understanding and setup. I'm not convinced that it is going to make much difference to a road car especially if you have suitable baffle plates, windage trays etc in the sump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.