NagaSadow Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) I've made a couple of posts regarding a full restoration project, but I think I've found the right car to make my part easier. Here's a link to an album of the pictures I took while checking the car out http://i.imgur.com/V5DgwQxh.jpg The car is a 1977 280z, it has been in the owners family since 1977 when he took his son to a Datsun dealership and told him to pick a car. From what he tells me, the same mechanic has worked on it for the last 25 years (will have to verify that) and it's generally in good shape. It runs well, with the original engine sitting at 124k miles. Overall, the only rust I could find was the front fender below the battery. The interior is all original, but it does have aftermarket speakers since the originals blew. Anyway, the plan is to make a classic daily driver with a little bit of power for the weekends. The first thing I'm going to do is replace the struts, seats, remove the carpet, and make the AC work again. After that, I'll see about putting on new rotors, bigger brakes, a strut brace on both ends of the car, and then work on the engine. Which is where this post comes in. I have no clue what upgrades would be ideal, but I'm thinking of upgrading the fuel injection and maybe the head. Budget of 13k, the car is about 6-6.5k depending on the negotiations tomorrow. Suggestions are welcome, and thanks for looking. Edited September 7, 2015 by NagaSadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NagaSadow Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) List of predetermined modifications: http://www.jpngarage.com/240-260-280Z-Urethane-front-air-dam-X-3125.htm $215 http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/classic20f/23-4201 $240 for front and rear http://www.amazon.com/KYB-FRONT-REAR-shocks-struts/dp/B002T4HDY6 $155 Edited January 17, 2016 by NagaSadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Duncan Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) No restoration involved with that thing, it's cherry... must have been garaged. Whatever you do, if you take stock parts off save them. I would convert to 240Z fiberglass bumpers, that's a big weight difference and part of the better looks of the 240. That air dam isn't going to work very well with the 280 bumper anyway. The stock fuel injection is pretty good, you have to do a lot to the engine mechanicals to surpass it. Headers, air intake, mild cam you should be fine. I would put some 215 to 225-45-R15 tires on it and some different wheels. Those wheels aren't venting the brakes very well. Edited September 8, 2015 by Chris Duncan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NagaSadow Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) No restoration involved with that thing, it's cherry... must have been garaged. Whatever you do, if you take stock parts off save them. I would convert to 240Z fiberglass bumpers, that's a big weight difference and part of the better looks of the 240. That air dam isn't going to work very well with the 280 bumper anyway. The stock fuel injection is pretty good, you have to do a lot to the engine mechanicals to surpass it. Headers, air intake, mild cam you should be fine. I would put some 215 to 225-45-R15 tires on it and some different wheels. Those wheels aren't venting the brakes very well. Well, a light "restoration" to the front fender where there's a rust hole, the cracked dash (which is salvageable), and minor trim defects. But, yeah, it's been stored under a car port with a cover on it and driven once or twice a month since the son abandoned it in 1985. And of course I'll keep the stock interior and have it fixed up so that if I ever sell the car I can put it back in. I wonder why most build threads usually skip straight to a megasquirt, if it's not much better. Oh well, I kinda figured a new intake and exhaust system would be one of the first suggestions. Honestly, I was going to go cheap and pick up some of the original Panasport rims or something like this http://www.zcarsource.com/wheel-set-western-15-spoke-wheel-14x5-5-set-of-4-used_8_56836_198441.html As far as the bumpers go, do you recommend the ones at http://www.frpautomotive.com/frp_price_list_page.html or is there a U.S. vendor that's good? Edited September 8, 2015 by NagaSadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Duncan Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I've never done the FRP bumpers, so I don't know the best source, but it's what I would do in this case. The racecar has nerf bars and the GTRZ is probably not going to have bumpers. The panasports are nice, Konig makes an affordable copy seen on Ebay. The used hurricanes are dated, painted black might be nice, but that's just personal preference. Megasquirt is better if the engine is built more than a moderate amount, but for just a mild cam/air intake/headers it's not necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 You should wait until you have the car, and think a lot more about what you want it to be. You just have a list of random things to do, but they don't really fit together to make a better car. Pretty easy to spend a lot of money and just make a Frankenstein monster. Weird-looking and doesn't work well. You can't really upgrade anything until you know what "better" is. By the way, these are 240Z shocks. Only two of them will work in your 280Z. http://www.amazon.com/KYB-FRONT-REAR-shocks-struts/dp/B002T4HDY6?tag=viglink20591-20 You want these. If you want stock style. http://www.amazon.com/KYB-FRONT-REAR-shocks-struts/dp/B002T037EK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NagaSadow Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 The panasports are nice, Konig makes an affordable copy seen on Ebay. The used hurricanes are dated, painted black might be nice, but that's just personal preference. Megasquirt is better if the engine is built more than a moderate amount, but for just a mild cam/air intake/headers it's not necessary. I'm going to paint any rims that I get black, and leave a tiny strip of chrome at the edge, so no worries there. That's good to know, it just seemed like even daily driver builds were upgrading the fuel injection. At least I won't spend money on useless parts in that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NagaSadow Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 You should wait until you have the car, and think a lot more about what you want it to be. You just have a list of random things to do, but they don't really fit together to make a better car. Pretty easy to spend a lot of money and just make a Frankenstein monster. Weird-looking and doesn't work well. You can't really upgrade anything until you know what "better" is. By the way, these are 240Z shocks. Only two of them will work in your 280Z. http://www.amazon.com/KYB-FRONT-REAR-shocks-struts/dp/B002T4HDY6?tag=viglink20591-20 You want these. If you want stock style. http://www.amazon.com/KYB-FRONT-REAR-shocks-struts/dp/B002T037EK I'm not sure what you mean by the Frankenstein monster build. I think it's fairly clear when I stated that it will be a daily driver and I am looking to only mildly increase power. Then I talked about suspension upgrades, and airdam to upgrade the looks, and asked for suggestions to improve the power in an ideal manner. I origanlly started with a 240z that I found, and they're the same price, which is why I had the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Many people, those that have done it especially, feel that Megasquirt alone is an upgrade, even on a stock engine. The 70's cars were surrounded by carb'ed cars so the EFI seemed clean and efficient. But compared to today's EFI systems, the old EFI is clunky, dirty, and problematic. But until you drive one, and compare it to a modern EFI car, like a Pathfinder or Buick, you won't really know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I'm not sure what you mean by the Frankenstein monster build. I think it's fairly clear when I stated that it will be a daily driver and I am looking to only mildly increase power. Then I talked about suspension upgrades, and airdam to upgrade the looks, and asked for suggestions to improve the power in an ideal manner. I origanlly started with a 240z that I found, and they're the same price, which is why I had the link. "Bigger brakes" in your first post was the clue. You haven't studied enough to know what's what. You're on the bling path. Form over function. All good, just that your plan doesn't fit your stated goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NagaSadow Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 "Bigger brakes" in your first post was the clue. You haven't studied enough to know what's what. You're on the bling path. Form over function. All good, just that your plan doesn't fit your stated goal. Not sure that I agree, but okay. The plan was to do the Toyota brakes and convert the rear brakes to rotors, which I don't see as a blingy option. I would be more inclined to agree if you had cited the strut bars, but I suppose some people don't think along the same lines that I do. To clarify, the overall goal is to essentially modernize the car with power brakes, new seats, maybe power steering, and get it to the point where it's as comfortable a daily driver as any modern car. I'm still going to keep all of the original parts in case I decide otherwise, and upgrade one thing at a time starting with the suspension to see if I change my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Duncan Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I think you're on the right track. And you're way ahead of the game with the condition the car is in. I don't see a problem with the stock EFI, it's pretty reliable, we've been running the racecar with it and haven't had any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NagaSadow Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 I think you're on the right track. And you're way ahead of the game with the condition the car is in. I don't see a problem with the stock EFI, it's pretty reliable, we've been running the racecar with it and haven't had any problems. That just saves me money, so thanks for the input. Is there a major difference in MPG, or more of the same meaning that I'd have to do other modifications to notice it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 To clarify, the overall goal is to essentially modernize the car with power brakes, I was just trying to show that you're making decisions on very little actual knowledge. Like the statement above - the car already has power (booster-assisted) brakes. If you meant "more powerful" there are numerous threads that talk about how the stock brakes work fine and are balanced correctly for the car, when they're in proper working order. And numerous threads talking about how the "upgraded" Toyota brakes, and rear discs, are biased to the front. You asked for suggestions. I say read more, take everyone's advice with a grain of salt (people inherently defend decisions that they've made. Objectivity is hard), drive the car for a little while, and make decisions based on a clear view of how you want the car to behave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NagaSadow Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 I was just trying to show that you're making decisions on very little actual knowledge. Like the statement above - the car already has power (booster-assisted) brakes. If you meant "more powerful" there are numerous threads that talk about how the stock brakes work fine and are balanced correctly for the car, when they're in proper working order. And numerous threads talking about how the "upgraded" Toyota brakes, and rear discs, are biased to the front. You asked for suggestions. I say read more, take everyone's advice with a grain of salt (people inherently defend decisions that they've made. Objectivity is hard), drive the car for a little while, and make decisions based on a clear view of how you want the car to behave. I've already driven the car a couple of times, and I'm used to cars like a 2000 Mustang with good brakes. What I experienced was very unresponsive brakes that had to be pressed fairly far to stop the car while going 45mph. So, that may not be indicative of how the brakes should be, but I wasn't impressed. I wouldn't be talking about upgrading things that I don't think needed improvement, I am trying to keep under a budget after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 What I experienced was very unresponsive brakes that had to be pressed fairly far to stop the car while going 45mph. So, that may not be indicative of how the brakes should be, but I wasn't impressed. I wouldn't be talking about upgrading things that I don't think needed improvement, I am trying to keep under a budget after all. You're using poorly setup stock parts as a reason to replace them with expensive non-stock parts. This is how budgets blow up. Anyway, the thread has deviated in to philosophy. You'll find plenty of opinions on the forum to support spending money. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Here's a good reference for brake options. If you're going to do it, might as well get it right - http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/38499-brake-upgrade-faq/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Duncan Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 The only known common failure issue with the EFI is the connectors get dry rot, and this would need to be fixed regardless of the control system. You can get a set of connectors on Ebay for $60 if they are bad. I don't think the MS gets any better mileage, it does have trouble codes and is customizable for high performance The stock 280 bumpers give good crash protection, the 240 bumpers do not but they look better and are much lighter. If you wanted to budget you could find some 240 stock metal ones that needed chrome and paint them black or body color. The FRP 240 bumpers are even lighter than stock but cost more. The stock Z brakes are good unless used very hard, like a track day and then they will get overheated. All cars now have vented front rotors, so a solid rotor on the front is definitely antique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NagaSadow Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 Alright, well I suppose I'll try some new pads first and see how the back brakes are before I decide to replace or convert to rotors and calipers. I was just reading how the brakes were something most people upgraded, and the experience I had wasn't good, so my assumption was that they weren't good overall. Then I read about the brake conversion kits and thought that was only further proof. I didn't mean to sound snobby or anything, it was just an assumption based on build threads and YouTube build logs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NagaSadow Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) The stock 280 bumpers give good crash protection, the 240 bumpers do not but they look better and are much lighter. If you wanted to budget you could find some 240 stock metal ones that needed chrome and paint them black or body color.I could always remove the bumper if I can't find one for a reasonable price. This link is the Z I'm wanting mine to look like http://imgur.com/a/Y7MRp Edited September 9, 2015 by NagaSadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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