turbo V6 rear end question

[DavyZ]

Just what do they mean by "the rear end?" The R200 is very strong and in most cases won't get torn up. The front diff mount is prone to failure in a stock Z let alone a V8Z. Just tie it down--get the JTR book and it will answer all your questions. These guys that look down on V8Zs get a deaf ear from the 1000 members of this forum--maybe collectively we know a bit more than they do? Just a thought. They are purists and they are trying to discourage you from what you know deep down to be true...if you hang out here enough and get the JTR book. A properly built V8Z will not have the "problems" they espouse. Don't fall into their theoretical mental trap of doubt when there is blatant evidence in front of you.

 

Again the R200 is nearly indestructible in a V8Z. The U-joints are items that will fail first if they do. Just how much HP are you looking at? Will you be drag racing this car? Sure, upgrades are necessary in ANY car if you do those things. Want a 350hp V8Z car for street use? Fine, most likely you won't have problems. Want a 500hp drag car? Fine, upgrade to a solid axle like Mike kZ did with his.

 

Use the search function and get the truth hashed out over two years on every subject concerning the conversion. A Turbo buick motor can do the same damage as a V8--just ask Scottie GNZ.

 

Davy

[Guest Anonymous]

I agree with Davy. The R200 will be more than adequate for most applications. I don't believe I've heard of to many R200's breaking the pinions or ring gears, they may be worn out in the bearings/bushings and start making noise, but its still a 8" ring gear and up to the task. The problem is usually the half shafts U-joints which break from the torque (and alot of times and this is only a theory, but between the torque and the squat it angles the u-joints a bit more than they like). CV's are a mod that many members have made and they withstand a lot more abuse.

 

Like Davy said, the turbo buick V6 can be just as hard on them as the V8's because of the huge torque the engine produces when the boost is pumped up. Scottie-GNZ could probably respond to that the best as his Z has the GN motor and he clicks off 11 sec quarters like its a day at the park (and he's scaring the 10's pretty bad at this point!).

 

As for the hype, if you are planning a V6 buick, (or even a V8 whatever) investigate all the facts and don't let brand loyalty blur the truth. Once you do that, you'll see the truth is, the Hybrid'z handle, go and stop much better than the purist would want to know and the reason is, they are modd'ed to withstand what we do to them. To many purist have ridden in badly setup v8 conversions with stock brakes, inadequate suspension and poor weight distribution and lumped the whole 'V8 Z' conversion into they're negative experience. Oh well, thats my .05 cents, sorry I ran on and one, but you'll find this is a emotional topic here for some of us.

 

Regards,

 

Lone

[pparaska]

Ashe, don't listen to these "specialists". I know of a few as well. Sure, they know how to restore the Z to original and how to tweak a set of Webers, etc. maybe even turbo the L6 to incredible levels. The issue is they are purists and they just don't want to see another Z go to the V8 or any other engine that isn't made by Nissan, IMO, of course.

 

There are PLENTY of 300, 400, and 500+ horsepower V8 (as well as other engines) powered Zs out there that live quite well with the R200 diff. If they mean the R180 that came in the 240, then sure, I agree, but the R180 to R200 diff swap is easy, cheap, and popular.

 

Welcome, we will not tell you things can't be done here unless there is a real technical reason, and then we will suggest ways to do something differently so as to hopefully meet your goals.

[Scottie-GNZ]

Ashe,

 

welcome. If you want to know the real pros/cons of a hybridZ, you have come to the right place. We are living it. There is not much that can be added to the great responses you have already gotten. As for the V-6 turbos, they are torque monsters. When you get them up in the 400RWHP range, they are equivalent to a healthy big block with torque exceeding 500 lb/ft. With the right combo of OEM parts, you can have an IRS that will withstand that power.

 

There are enough lessons learned here that you will not have to experiment or re-invent the wheel. Leave that to the some the pioneers here

[Guest Anonymous]

I understand the perspective. I used to be into musclecars, and there were enough guys there dumping big blocks into small block and 6cyl cars without changing anything else. Some of the guys probably are pursists, but 2 of them I would say aren't. I have a few questions about the rear end, but I will put those in the drivetrain section, as they now apply to all the hybrid possiblities. Thanks for the replies!

[DavyZ]

Good job on keeping an open mind!

 

Welcome to Z Heaven!

 

Davy

[fl327]

hey if you want any real power without a nascar budget, you want a v8, tthe swap is like any other swap, youwill need to upgrade the suspension and the brakes just as much as you upgrade the motor, i mean doesnt that just make sense? it makes dollars and cents to me. just remember this, it takes 5500 to send your car to rebello to have an NA 3.1 make 265hp(to the flywheel) which is really about 235 to the flywheel, and about 200 flat to the wheels, for 5500 and a little mouthpiece and any kind of game you can stick a v8 in a z with 300hp to the wheels, brake hard, and hang corners LIKE ME.J/k-a little.

for the same money you put into just the motor on an l-series, you can swap to v8 power and outperform not only any stock or modified L-series Z(with the exception of a couple), but you will kick mopar, ford, and some chevy butt, not to mention hondas, nissans, mitsubishis, mazdas, bmws, and just about anyone else that thinks they want to play with fire. if you really want to spank fools, go with the gnx combo( the car it came out of runs a 13.4 stock and weighs like 4800lbs), upgrade the turbo and the injectors and you will hit low 12's with your arm out the window and bust into 11's with traction and some more tweaks, check scottie out, hes way the hell into the 11's ON AN R200....if only it came in stick.........

hey those are my thoughts, i enjoy my z on a daily basis and drive it to get groceries and coffee on the regular, i run a really quiet exhaust and have been asked several times"how did you get the webbers to hum like that" and i respond by leaving them in a cloud of smoke through second, and sometimes, into third. try and make a straight six do that...

i run a slightly better than stock 327 with a 1967 casting number, and it rocks!

i think the only reason the purists bitch so much about putting a v8 in their car is cause they are scared of the truth...naw im kidding, to each his own, hope this helps.

Leonard

Fairlady "the truth" 327

[Evan Purple240zt]

.

for the same money you put into just the motor on an l-series, you can swap to v8 power and outperform not only any stock or modified L-series Z(with the exception of a couple),

 

Ashe, keep in mind. Regardless of what choice you make. Its not cheap. I built an L28t, and honestly, many v8 zcars dont even begin to scare me. Its funny around here because it seems that the hp levels start around 275 and go up! We are not a bunch of purists, we are speedfreaks!!! lol

 

Anyway, there are fast L28t zcars. Fairlady, there are more than a couple of fast l28t cars. Regardless, you can go fast with a L motor or go fast with a V8. Its your bag baby, grab it and run with it. Youll never look back (unless you trip on something and wonder what the hell it was).

 

I am truely curious. If i wanted a 365 rwhp V8 zcar. How much money would the drivetrane cost including a five speed of sorts. I have heard that they are cheaper, but never really heard a number on the specs. Oh, and this would be an carbed V8 of course.

 

I guess, what im gettin at is WELCOME!!!

 

Evan

[Guest Anonymous]

I've been speaking to a number of Z specialists, most of whom look down on V8 conversions. Some of their reasoning I dismiss, but the one I cannot excuse is what the power and moreover torque of a hot 350ci Chevy will do to the rear end of a Z.

 

Would I be correct in assuming that a 300hp Buick or Chevy turbo V6 would pose similar problems to the rest of the Z's rear that the V8 conversions do?

[fl327]

evan, youre totally right, no matter what route you pick, it is not going to be cheap... the turbo l28et is a hot setup in itself, i love turbos. none of us here are purists, were into performance and we're not bound by labels, nor do we swear any kind of loyalty to anyone car manufacturer (cough) CHEVY (cough) and i may do an l28et one of these days,my buddy at the shop has a big turbo setup with the manifold that should be good for about 18lbs (cough)for sale (cough)

hey it wont be cheap, but some routes are cheaper than others depending on who you know or what you know, or how you can work mouthpiece. i have a gang of fun in my z, and welcome to the board. hope you get it going, no matter what route you pick..good luck

Leonard

im on a pedestal, waiting to be knocked off, by you???

[fl327]

I am truely curious. If i wanted a 365 rwhp V8 zcar. How much money would the drivetrane cost including a five speed of sorts. I have heard that they are cheaper, but never really heard a number on the specs. Oh, and this would be an carbed V8 of course

 

all depends on your mouthpiece and who you can connect it to and hypnotize into making your deal (translation: it can cost you your first born but if you have game, only an arm and a leg)

get a 350 and 365hp is done rather easily with the aid of a high flow combo of heads, intake, and cam, other things add to horsepower as well like pulleys, headers, ignition, intake...it can be done with bolt-ons... and like it!.

 

v8-$50-2500

t-5 200-1000(new)

bellhousing 10-200

driveshaft (CHEAP)

mounts and whatnots (500-1000)

the smile on my face when i whoop that ass

PRICELESS

 

Leonard

@sshole at large

[Evan Purple240zt]

"kick" as your ass falls from the pedistal. LOL j/k

 

Anyways, thats the case with any motor as far as selling your left nut for a transmission. However, i really want to know a price on the swap. Ill show you my price if you show me yours LOL

 

Thanks for the reply, thought i had a flame comin from that one!

 

Later dude= Evan

 

PS... i AM a chevy guy too I drive an S10 4cyl and its friggin INDESTRUCTABLE!!! I drive it like i drive my z LOL

[fl327]

i bought my z v8 converted with a muncie rockcrusher all done autometer dash, lakewood scattershield, new tires, straight body, the ubiquitous air dam, running great with good paint for $2750.00, ive since put a couple k's into the project of taking the mickey mouse out of the previous owners doings and such. i sold my civic to get it and made a profit, ive been backed into twice and t-boned by a cbr -amounting to about 3500.00 in settlement, meaning that i have bought the car, modified it some more (roll cage, z28 racing clutch, m21 with 300 miles, new used r200, roll bar, enkies, scarab springs, all new hydralics for an amazing----youre gonna love this one, cause i do.

1250.00!!!!!(after everything is computed) i work at a body shop, i can handle the little dings that paid for my car for free....

you like that, i love that

i really dig turbos too, once i get situated and start making a little more money, i think i will do a turbo240 z, i like the quietness and the power, plus being able to score more good running stuff out the boneyard, because as we all know, 280z's and zx's own the junkyards!

until next time

 

Leonard

@SShole at large( im waving to all my adoring fans right now)

[fl327]

the real price on a swap always varies, id say that about 7500-9000 into it and you would come out with a daily driver Z that had 365hp. maybe less, maybe MORE>>>>>

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm not sure what a L motor would cost at 365 hp, a crate chevy is probably close to 3g for that power range thats brand new, used and rebuilt yourself, probably in my guestimation about 1800-2000 (just for the motor, the tranny depends on what you put behind it, 500-1700). Where the cheapness comes in is that the Chevy is just starting to yawn and beginning to wake up at 365 hp, and is much tamer to drive than any N/A L motor at that horsepower rating (I.E. its got big low end balls and the mid range is hella strong). Turbo motors I'm not so clear about because to be honest I just don't know what a L turbo buildup cost but for comparable power it probably isn't real cheap either but probably a better driver than a N/A with a radical ass cam. Just some thoughts, not to cause a ruckus, I like them both and really could give a fig one way or the other whats under the hood if its fast.

 

Regards,

 

Lone

[Evan Purple240zt]

Lone, everyone. I am NOT trying to cause a ruckuss thats for sure! I am totally curious as to how this all works though

 

Lone, ill do a basic rundown on how much money it takes to hit 365hp or so in a turbocharged zcar. (to the best of my knowledge).

 

Turbo-700

j/y motor rebuilt with forged lower end-2000

Intercooler/plumbing-600

 

WHOOPS, i guess the v8 is cheaper LOL. If you guys are talking that kinda money for a swap. It would be VERY economical, i also like the idea of avalible parts!! (too late for me LOL)

 

Anyways, thats not the point. I think this would be a good thread to refer people too regarding the cost-effectiveness of the swaps.

 

I have seen v8 swaps, and stuff like that. DO NOT BE OFFENDED.. but I think the V8 is too ordinary for my tastes. I have never driven a turbocharged datsun... EVER... so maybe thats where the curiosity is coming into play. Dont get me wrong, i like the v8 swap, but its one of those things where i work on my car to learn new wierd things. Thats why im so intrigued by the GN swap that scottie did. I wanna do a V8 swap or GN swap into my S10 BAD!!!!

 

Anyways, im signing off before i manage to ruffle too many feathers!!

 

Evan

 

PS... the other reason i like turbo zx motor is to shutup 99% of the punk-ass import (motor) haters on the street!

[Drax240z]

Well lets throw in my costs here too. Suspension, chassis, brake upgrades aside.

 

(in canadian funds)

 

$1200 SDS

$1200 Junkyard engine with full rebuild

$450 Clutch/flywheel

$225 MSD Box

$100 60mm TB

$400 NPR Intercooler & piping

$100 Fuel system

--------

$3675Canadian (~$2300US)

 

If I had my way, I'd have 6 new injectors, a t3/t04 turbo and forged pistons as well, adding probably $1800US to the cost.

 

Grand total for a 350rwhp turbo engine/tranny, $4100US.

 

Remember we don't have to spend big bucks on a tranny because the stock ones can be sufficient. So there is $300-$1800US off what a chevy swap would cost with a manual transmission.

 

I'm with Evan though, I really learned a lot while doing this swap, and would do it again just for the LCF. (looks cool factor)

[Guest Anonymous]

No offense taken at all. The V8 is ordinary perhaps in our group, outside of it, not so sure. I'm still of the opinion that the torque difference is worth it, but I'm biased and havn't been in a really fast turbo 6 car either. The V8's limits havn't really been pushed IMHO either though (well the blown LS1 that one did.. ), which is why I'm considering at some point going turbo V8! Something that builds huge amounts of torque but doesn't need to spin astronomically to make big horsepower.

 

A conservative build should net at least 450 hp IMHO. I've seen this reached with big cams and such, but I think a mild V8 motor with good parts and turbo'ed would give the best of both worlds, ungodly power and drivability without a big cam that needs to be rev'ed to keep from loading up and if it falls off the cam is as limb as a noodle to drive.

 

My own swap probably cost the better part of 4000+ for 265 hp, but torque is at 350 ft/lbs, its not a high reving engine by any means and has compression so low you could drive it through mexico (where the motor was built.. ) I don't have performance numbers at this point, but will post them when I get it all sorted out (suspension and exhaust getting reworked). To my own butt dyno, it feels pretty damn quick through the gears.

 

Was that the best bang for buck? Probably not, I could have gotten a scrapyard engine for cheaper, built it for cheaper, with more horsepower but due to limitations on my place to work on it, the time worked against me. I'm still real pleased with the goodwrench engine at only 1300.00 brand new (long block minus carb, manifold, starter and water pump) with a warranty, its a decent buy.

 

It all comes back to what you like and what 'does it' for ya I think. I'm an old schooler and what 'does it' for me is the sound of a Chevy engine screaming to redline, ripping another gear and digging the scene (no gangster lean though!).

 

Best regards,

 

Lone

 

[ July 15, 2001: Message edited by: lonehdrider ]

[fl327]

a turbo v8 sounds nuts! imagine a t56 and the whoopem factor... oh man oh man. yes it is quite ordainairy here to do that, but the torque is great out of it. im thinking about a blower myself, that little sbc single carb unit from jegs, with a little touching, ill put 400-450 to the ground easy. see how that does. sure i could go to the boneyard, and pick up an 8 for nothing and build it up, but i like the sound of lonehdriders goodwrench 350-thats the 250hp edition right? 1300 out the door sounds pretty dang proper, two days ill have that thing out with whining and chirping baby....ignition, timing, underdrive pulleys, and ill see your turbo l6 and raise you 2 cylinders...and yes i am the man who broke his mustache bar in half, pictures will be up soon

Leonard

"its all good, i can take it like i can dish it out"

[Guest Anonymous]

Cool thread!

 

I am the one doing the Buick 3.8 turbo/T5 in a Datsun Roadster.

 

The Roadster rear end is smaller then the Z and it still should handle 250 to 300 HP without problems. The only reason to change it is to get a LSD. With the open rear end I will have a hard time getting the power down. A LSD for a Roadster is big bucks - if you can find one.

 

I finally got a good body/frame to work with. After some welding I will be fitting the motor in. I did fit it in the freebe (Rusty) but he now RIP. The 3.8 fits great!

 

On transmission costs. I picked up a WC T5 for 300 and a rebuild kit is 170, so for about 500 I will be ready go rock. I do have to build a simple adaptor plate to bolt it up to the Buick motor. Simple to do out of .060 steel sheet.

 

Great to see you guys stirring things up!!

Those purest types - blaaaa....

 

Phil