gn drivetrain in a z32?

[Guest confuZed]

Hey, was wondering if this has been done, or more importantly, if it's possible. I was wanting to put a gn drivetrain in a 280z but knowing this is going to be a daily driver and looking around, I see a ton of z32 n/a's going for around 5000, I was thinking this would be a potent and way cool transplant.... Does anybody have the specs on the z32 drivetrain? h/w/d weight...

 

Many thanks,

Jared

[Guest slouch]

I've never heard of this swap so I think it would be a unique one. My main concern is the engine bay in the z32s is pretty cramped so you may want to do some measuring on a buddy's z32 or failing that call around to your local junkyards and see if they have a z32 chassis with no engine. Then just get in there with a tape measure and see what kind of room you have. Sorry to state the obvious and I think it would be a damn cool swap just for the WTF value when you open your hood.

[Guest confuZed]

I dunno about the engine bay deal. I did a few searches through this forum, and it Seemed the consensus was that with the duel overhead cam design of the vg30de that for it’s displacement was actually a very large engine. Since the gn is a standard pushrod with the turbo up front, it seems viable. I plan on hitting the junk yards to be sure about size, but wanted to get some ideas before doing that. I know some people… ScottieGNZ? Had considered the vg30dett for their 240 so was hoping they would have some measurements of that engine and maybe it’s weight.

 

Most z32 owners are very anti swap. They even deter anyone from doing an na-tt swap. So the wtf factor would be great. I also feel like I’d get more useable power out of a gn drive train than I would out of the tt setup. And for much much less denero.

[CruxGNZ]

A Buick 231 in a Z32... I think that would be kinda cool. You can get the cars with blown/damaged engines for $4k > for a decent body around here. Anything is possible, but I'm going to check on the engine bay of the 300ZX. I think it would be fun to do. Maybe I can persuade my buddy to do this swap, he has a built engine sitting in his garage waiting for a donor car, and he likes the late model 300ZX body styles... I'm going to ask. I can't help but to think there are different engines you can stuff in the Z32 engine bay for much less money and still have the WTF factor. I'll reply about what I find out. Scottie, you have anything to add to this post?

 

!M!

[Kennysgreen280zt]

dude , you dont want to do that , then everytime I went through Marysville I would be leary of every Z32 I saw . HAHA just kidding , that would be a great deal for the WTF value!!! Let us know how it goes. laterz

 

~Kenny

75 280zt

[Z-Gad]

The Z32 body style has grown on me as well. The major short-coming of the Z32 is the engine. The components used in the Z32 n/a simply aren't very strong and are prone to break down. The Z32tt engine is put together a bit stronger for obvious reasons...ask any Z mechanic who has had to work on them and they'll have a similar opinion...

One mechanic I know has made an oil pan for an L28 swap into a Z32 for a customer, but now the customer, for whatever reason, backed out.

I'd love to see someone do the GN swap into the Z32 and when they do, DOCUMENT IT!!

~mike

[Scottie-GNZ]

I am not familiar enough with the Z32 chassis to tell you whether or not you would have a fitment problem with the steering rod and the oil pan/X-member. Those are typically the 2 areas where you have problems. I would say since the TT engine has the turbos slung low on the side of the engine, the steering rod might not be a problem and you have the option of a adding a u-joint to the the rod, in case. Hopefully you can get the GN engine setback enough that the x-member would not be a problem.

 

Because of the DOHC design, the TT is a very WIDE engine on top so there should be no clearance problems, but you need to consider room for the DP which will run about level with the plugs, to swing down at the back of the engine. Do not know the exact weight of the TT engine, but I would guess the weights, fully dressed, would be about even. A fully dressed GN engine weighs in at a little over 400lbs and remember that a TT engine has double everything.

 

Performance wise, a stock GN engine is rated at 247hp compared by the 300hp for the TT. Do not be fooled by those numbers as the GN is a torque monster and since you are going to have to do a custom DP and I/C anyway, just adding a more aggressive chip ($25-50), K&N ($60) and a couple more psi of boost ($2.50), you are now well over 300hp with torque approaching 400 lb/ft. On the street, that is what counts, not hp at some ungodly RPM. Not sure what final drive you would have, but the GN engine runs best with about 3.50 or taller. When racing from a stop, 1st gear is a mad rush (my 1-2 shift happens in a tad less than 1 sec) so you do not want a tight 4.10 or even 3.90. That is something you can address later and there should be no concern about the strength of the IRS.

 

I find the TT crowd a bit snobbish but since you are on this forum and considering a swap, you are obviously not a purist. $$-wise, expect to pay about $2500 for a GN drivetrain. The DP/exhaust and I/C should be a part of your swap budget. After that, you spend the aforementioned "BIG" bucks for the chip, filter and adj wastegate rod. I would also recommend spending $250 for the datalogger. Keep turning up the boost until you get detonation, then back off a notch. Compare that to have to marry JWT or Stillen.

 

As for the WTF factor, a GN engine is certainly not eye-catching as a TT, but you can certainly dress it up. The fun will be looking into the eyes of a TT owner when you pop the hood after bloowing away his Stillen Stage 15 setup .

[Guest confuZed]

Thank you scottie and everyone else. that was a wealth of information and helped seal the deal on my descision to go with this swap. I know the gn drivetrain is uglier than the tt, but the cost of power is so much less and the usefullness of that power is so much better. I'm planning on doing some mild engine work to the gn drivetrain while it's out... (port, polish, cam..) then of course if funds allow, fmic, 3in single exhaust to the back (tt owners will love that one) and of course I'd love to go with a stand alone engine management. I'm sprung on the TEC. TEC3 is available mid next month

 

Also, I'm not too worried about the steering shaft, as you said... the turbos hang pretty low. I bet it's pretty well out of the way. and worst case, I bet it's fairly easily modified. Now with the cross member. I'm not too great of a fabricator (even with cardboard scottie ) So I was thinking of towing it somewhere and having them cut out the xmember and welding in a new one with mounts to match up to the gn. is that viable? anyone know of a good place in the nw that can do that? Do I need to support the tranny too? or just the motor?

 

Thanks,

Jared

[pparaska]

Jared, I for one love this idea. The TT engine is very nice, but very hard to work on and expensive to fix or get fixed once the Turbos go out (which they do more often that many other turbo cars).

 

I agree with Scottie that I see alot of snobbish-ness in the Z32 community , but of course, there are purists for every enthusiast car.

 

I'd like to see you do it to rub it in the purists faces a bit, but moreso because it's different and a torquey alternative! Plus you won't have to take out a huge bank account to support the Wolf, etc. houses that tweak the Z32 - but deal with the DIY mod-friendly GN crowd!

 

I can't wait to see you do it! Of course, I encourage you to document it with pics, writeup, etc. on a web site.

[Guest MegaShaft_2000]

Originally posted by Scottie-GNZ:

I am not familiar enough with the Z32 chassis to tell you whether or not you would have a fitment problem with the steering rod and the oil pan/X-member. Those are typically the 2 areas where you have problems. I would say since the TT engine has the turbos slung low on the side of the engine, the steering rod might not be a problem and you have the option of a adding a u-joint to the the rod, in case. Hopefully you can get the GN engine setback enough that the x-member would not be a problem.

 

Because of the DOHC design, the TT is a very WIDE engine on top so there should be no clearance problems, but you need to consider room for the DP which will run about level with the plugs, to swing down at the back of the engine. Do not know the exact weight of the TT engine, but I would guess the weights, fully dressed, would be about even. A fully dressed GN engine weighs in at a little over 400lbs and remember that a TT engine has double everything.

 

Performance wise, a stock GN engine is rated at 247hp compared by the 300hp for the TT. Do not be fooled by those numbers as the GN is a torque monster and since you are going to have to do a custom DP and I/C anyway, just adding a more aggressive chip ($25-50), K&N ($60) and a couple more psi of boost ($2.50), you are now well over 300hp with torque approaching 400 lb/ft. On the street, that is what counts, not hp at some ungodly RPM. Not sure what final drive you would have, but the GN engine runs best with about 3.50 or taller. When racing from a stop, 1st gear is a mad rush (my 1-2 shift happens in a tad less than 1 sec) so you do not want a tight 4.10 or even 3.90. That is something you can address later and there should be no concern about the strength of the IRS.

 

I find the TT crowd a bit snobbish but since you are on this forum and considering a swap, you are obviously not a purist. $$-wise, expect to pay about $2500 for a GN drivetrain. The DP/exhaust and I/C should be a part of your swap budget. After that, you spend the aforementioned "BIG" bucks for the chip, filter and adj wastegate rod. I would also recommend spending $250 for the datalogger. Keep turning up the boost until you get detonation, then back off a notch. Compare that to have to marry JWT or Stillen.

 

As for the WTF factor, a GN engine is certainly not eye-catching as a TT, but you can certainly dress it up. The fun will be looking into the eyes of a TT owner when you pop the hood after bloowing away his Stillen Stage 15 setup .

Hi, I just wanted to add my input here. I don't have a GN or a 240Z, but I do have a 300ZXTT. You're absolutely right about most Z32'ers being snobbish. They usually are of not of any help when it comes to doing anything mechanical with the car. As another user said, they seem to be against doing any conversion, including a NA-TT conversion. I do not think it is due to them being purists as much it has to do with the fact that 90% of them are in the IT industry and have no clue about how to work on cars. When someone asks how hard it is to do an NA-TT conversion, most say it is extremely difficult and costs around $10k. Those that have done it have found that it costs little more than the cost of the engine and their time, since both engines were designed to fit into the Z32 chassis and the chassis for both the NA and TT are the same... motor mounts line right up, it's basically a drop in affair compared to what the guys on here do.

 

About putting a GN engine in a Z32, it shouldn't have any problem fitting. It will be a lot harder than the NA-TT conversion, obviously, since the engine wasn't designed to just drop in and sit on the stock motor mounts, but the VG30DETT is a large engine, very wide with lots of plumbing (2 turbos, 2 pipes running to 2 intercoolers, 2 pipes running to 2 throttle bodies, dual exhausts, etc.

 

I think this would be a very worthwhile conversion because it would be unique and would inject some mechanical know-how into the Z32 community.

 

But don't expect it to blow away a stage 15 TTZ... the VG30DETT has no problems putting out 600hp on stock internals (some guys have 600 rear wheel HP, and at least one I know of was racing his with 690 RWHP on the stock engine internals). A Puerto Rican team has a pro-stock Z32 running mid 7's at nearly 200mph on a modded VG30DETT (stock engine block, heavily modded with single turbo, 1000+ hp)

[Scottie-GNZ]

But don't expect it to blow away a stage 15 TTZ...

Who in their right mind would compare a stock Buick Turbo to a Stage15 TTZ, unless you are comparing it to mine ?

 

What does it cost to take a stock TTZ to Stage15? Give me half of that to mod the Buick.

[Guest MegaShaft_2000]

Originally posted by Scottie-GNZ:

quote:

---

But don't expect it to blow away a stage 15 TTZ...

Who in their right mind would compare a stock Buick Turbo to a Stage15 TTZ, unless you are comparing it to mine

?

 

---

I'm comparing a modded turbo Buick engine to a modded VG30DETT.

 

What does it cost to take a stock TTZ to Stage15? Give me half of that to mod the Buick.

 

Above Stage 3, there's no telling what the stages are. People tend get creative..like calling a carbon fiber hood a stage upgrade.

 

But I can tell you that it takes too much money...

 

If parts were priced fairly for TTZ's, the engine would be cheap to mod since it is pretty well designed and can handle a lot of power in its stock configutation. Above a common stage 3 level (intake, exhaust, ecu) replacing the turbos, injectors, and intercoolers, and getting an ECU upgrade will give you a good 550-600 hp.

 

The problem is that injectors alone cost $1000, intercoolers are around $800, and a set of good turbos costs you $3k.

 

Although you don't need to replace many parts to get high HP, the parts are so expensive that it's probably a lot cheaper to get a GN engine,and build it up.

 

Believe me, I wish parts were reasonably priced like they are for domestic engines (injectors for $300)

 

One problem I foresee with a GN Z32 is traction. The Z32 has an anti-squat suspension and cannot hook up off the line. The wheels just hop if you give it too much gas. Luckily the Z makes up for the poor launch in HP. But a GN engine has so much low end torque that the car will never hook up. I take my car to the track and usually get 2.2, 2.3 60 foot times. I got a great launch once and got a 2.0 60 foot time. That's on 245 street tires. By the end of the quarter mile it makes up for the bad launch with a good trap speed, I ran a 13.4@108.5 with a 2.2 60 foot time, and a 13.0 with a 2.0 60 foot.

 

You'll never see a Z32 doing wheelstands like those crazy GN's

[Guest Anonymous]

I like the idea alot. A GN in one of those would be awesome IMHO. The Z32 is pretty heavy, but then so is a GN and they get into the 10's with those, I don't see how it couldn't end up being pretty fast. Also as Scotty said with its torque (and the nice sized rear end and tires on a Z32) I doubt you'd lose to many races. I wouldn't worry about Stage 15 cars, I'd wager they're few and far between and so what, theres always someone faster so why fret someone that has 6 gazillion HP (out of a stock bottom end usually ) and cubic money in they're car. As Nissan says, enjoy the ride (with a buick motor ).

 

Regards,

 

Lone

[Guest MegaShaft_2000]

Originally posted by LoneInAZ:

I like the idea alot. A GN in one of those would be awesome IMHO. The Z32 is pretty heavy, but then so is a GN and they get into the 10's with those, I don't see how it couldn't end up being pretty fast.

The problem is that the Z32 cannot launch due to its anti-squat suspension. GN's and Turbo Regals launch HARD... those things really hook up and transfer the power to the ground. A Z32 will not do that.

 

Look at the trap speeds of a GN, and of a Z32. A GN will have a great ET and a lower trap speed, the Z32's trap speed will be high and have a crappy ET. One guy on TT.net just ran a 12.7@118 with a 2.3 60 foot time

[jeromio]

Yes but how much of the blame for that poor launch is the power curve of the engine? Perhaps the higher torque of the Buick motor will lower those 60 times quite alot...?

[Guest MegaShaft_2000]

Originally posted by jeromio:

Yes but how much of the blame for that poor launch is the power curve of the engine? Perhaps the higher torque of the Buick motor will lower those 60 times quite alot...?

It can't be the power curve of the engine because it doesn't bog down, it loses traction. If the car always bogged down at the launch I could see more low end torque helping. But since the wheels break loose if you give it too much gas, adding more torque will just make matters worse. I'd be willing to bet that with the GN's low end torque, you couldn't give it half throttle in first gear.

 

My car is just stage 3, and it has around 400 hp/ 400 lbs torque. Even on the sticky track, I cannot give it more than 3/4 throttle in first gear.

[ZROSSA]

Look here,

http://zclub.org.nz/nz300zx/index.htm

 

Go magazine articles and then go to project z.

 

These guys seem to think they solved the problem of getting one to hook up if i remember the article correctly. Goes to show that if you through enough money at something, sometimes it works.

 

Douglas

[Scottie-GNZ]

It's all a matter of suspension setup and tires. Everyone is always talking about the infamous Z-car squat and how much momemtum you lose squatting instead of forward motion. Well, does not seem to be hurting me or other Zs who consistently cut 1.60s 60' times. We even have another GNZ that had dipped into the 1.49s on slicks. As for having to launch with part-throttle, no such technique here. I put 5psi boost on the tranbrake and before the car moves I am flat to the floor laying down an estimated 540 lb/ft of torque with no wheelspin. If we 1st-gen Zs can get that kind of power to the ground, so can the Z32s. Just remember, the fattest, widest street rubber cannot hold that kind of power.

 

Lets not even get into a discussion about 1000hp TTZs because I can tell you there are at least 50 times the number of 1000+hp GNs ON THE STREET than there are TTZs. As for running mid-12s, that is Stage 0.015 for a GN. I estimate it cost less than $250 to put a GN in the mid-12s. The pride of the TT crowd is Kyle Puckett, and I am sorry, Kyle would get his tail busted by 100s of GN.

 

Do I dislike TTZs? If it was not so heavy, that sexy body would be one of my first choices for an engine swap. I just get a little irritated when TTZs think they are quick cars.

[Guest MegaShaft_2000]

Originally posted by Scottie-GNZ:

Everyone is always talking about the infamous Z-car squat and how much momemtum you lose squatting instead of forward motion. Well, does not seem to be hurting me or other Zs who consistently cut 1.60s 60' times. We even have another GNZ that had dipped into the 1.49s on slicks. As for having to launch with part-throttle, no such technique here. I put 5psi boost on the tranbrake and before the car moves I am flat to the floor laying down an estimated 540 lb/ft of torque with no wheelspin. If we 1st-gen Zs can get that kind of power to the ground, so can the Z32s.

The Z32 has a different suspension setup than any of the previous Z cars. It has an anti-squat, anti-dive suspension setup. The car does not squat when you launch, and the nose does not dive when you slam on the brakes at 100 mph. The car stays almost perfectly level. It was designed for handling where you want the weight distribution to remain as equal as possible all the time.

 

I don't buy what those other guys say about squatting wasting energy, either. If a car squats at launch, it sounds to me like the weight is shifting back onto the rear wheels, where it should be for a good launch. That could only make the launch better.

 

The few Z32's that are drag racers and get great 60 foot times are the ones that have ditched the Z32 anti-squat suspension and put in a solid rear axle back there.

 

I just get a little irritated when TTZs think they are quick cars.

 

I do not think my Z32 is a quick car at the dragstrip. In fact, it sucks as a dragracer.It is meant for speed and handling, not drag racing.

 

And I must say that I take offense to the way you stated that. How would you feel if you heard someone who owns another car say "I just get a little irritated when GN's think they are quick cars"? The fact of the matter is that the GN and TTZ both ran the same 0-60 (5.5) and the same quarter mile (13.8) stock. Both are fast cars.

[Scottie-GNZ]

Sorry you were offended by my statement and it was not directed at you specifically. I have heartburn with the attitudes of most TTZ owners and to be honest, I would not take the statement back. The fact that you are on this forum, though, says you are allright by me. I still have memories of being lambasted on the 90-96 zcar.com forum by TTZs that could not stay close enough to read my license plate and by others that turned out to have faked their "super performance". All I did was ask why Z32 owners find it so hard to give any other make credit .

 

As for comparing acceleration between a GN and a TTZ, lets not compare magazine road tests, because quite frankly I do not think there is a stock GN in existence . Today it is a big mistake to judge your competition by their magazine road test result. The main point is was trying to make, and apparent not well, is that after dishing out big $$$ to JWT or $tillen, a mid-hi-12 TTZ is quick, but that makes it equal to a GN with a chip and a couple more psi of boost and a mild L28ET hop-up.

 

BTW, I am not a fan of the GN car itself, but think the drivetrain is awesome. Get your times posted on Andy list.