ImportRacer Posted May 19, 2002 Author Share Posted May 19, 2002 That would be awesome if you can contact him. Let us know how it goes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted May 19, 2002 Share Posted May 19, 2002 I've emailed him, I just haven't heard back yet. One of the 2.4's just ran a 10.61@136mph shifting at only 7k rpm and bogging off the line without NOS in a '97 Talon TSi. (The one I was talking about earlier). I found out a friend of mine has a complete 2G engine with a spun bottom end he's going to sell (I didn't get how much, but I am supposed to go to his house today - he's a fellow Mitsubishi tech from another local dealership). I also have a 2.4L Galant block sitting at the house. If I can get the block cheap enough I'm going to pick it up and grab the 2.4L block from my work and start building the engine up...I'm having this funny feeling that my L28ET may not be in my car too awful long...we'll see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silicone boy Posted May 19, 2002 Share Posted May 19, 2002 I think the question has to be asked again, what class are you going to race it in? Then build the car, not just the engine. Otherwise you are going to lose no matter what engine you build, and that's not the name of the game. (Remember the book titled "Engineering to Win"?--that's the important concept here, adapting the machine to the conditions.) I was originally setting up my car for E-mod autocross, thinking that 400 hp in a 2700 pound car would do just fine. It's a great setup--for the street, as I soon found out. One day, a "whimpy" small block Spitfire showed up--try taking that on in a road race. It was engineered for the conditions and rocked. Another thing I don't see mentioned here is improvement of the most important component if you actually intend to road race--the driver. No matter how well you prepare your car, your best investment will be in your own driving skills (I don't know your level of experience, you might be Michael Schumacher for all I know, so forgive me for thinking you might need a tune up if you don't). I just know from IT experience that there are people who could beat me with a Yugo. That's when I start thinking that the money I spent on car parts might have been better utilized by sending myself to another driving school (a lot more fun too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted May 19, 2002 Share Posted May 19, 2002 There's certainly some truth to what you're saying, and nobody will doubt that 3 days at Bondurant (which is in my town) won't help knock serious time off of your laptimes... The main point to this entire thread was not about stuffing as much horsepower into a 2700lb car as you can, but rather, gaining horsepower while, at the same time, shedding a couple of hundred points by doing so. Unfortunately, to gain any real amounts of horsepower out of our inline 6's, we have to actually add weight (yes, I know, you can swap heads, pistons, etc...but...it's going to be very difficult to obtain turbocharged power levels from a NA engine) so it then becomes a question of "Would you rather have 250hp from a 2700lb car, 400hp from a 2800lb car, or 400hp from a 2500lb car?? (of course, these numbers will change depending on what model you're starting off with (240Z, 280Z, etc..)" And let's not forget the weight distribution factor. Like it was mention, having a lighter engine would give you a better F/R weight ratio. Even if you could coax 300+hp from a N/A, you're weight ratios aren't as good as if you put in a lightweight 4 cylinder. Ok, granted, perhaps the best engine for an all out drag car may not be a 4 cyl (although, it is hard to argue with RWD cars running 7 second quarters using 4 cylinders), perhaps in those cases a Skyline, 350SB, or a variety of other engines may be the best choice...but...I think a high torque lightweight high output 4 cylinder will give the daily driven 240 or 280Z a better chance of keeping up with those pesky small block spitfires... Of course, opinions will vary. However, if a 4cyl 4G63 was good enough for Archer Racing to win their class against V8's and the such for almost 10 years straight AND be good enough for HKS to develop for the 24hr Lemans, then I don't see why it wouldn't help in a Zcar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guycali Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 Bill, I've been following your discussion both here and dsmtalk.com and am fascinated by the 4G63/64 swap. I haven't seen it discussed here but will this transversed Mitsubishi engine fit easily in a 240Z, it being longer than wider for the engine bay? Also, do you think it's possible to use the entire drivetrain of a GSX (awd, 1G or 2G?) in a Z? If not, how does one convert the fwd of a Mitsubishi motor to rwd? I also read it somewhere that a Supra six speed tranny can be mated to 4G63 with a custom bellhousing. Will that work in conjunction with awd drivetrain? Thanks for your help. -Guycali Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Guycali, Actually, StarQuest owners have been swapping in the 4G63 into their StarQuests for quite some time. The transmissions they are using are modified Supra 5 spds, however, I believe a 6 speed could be used as well..but, I think I've been told they are quite a bit longer. The tranny from a 2.0L Dodge D50 or a 2.0L Mighty Max (both trucks) should also bolt right up and the Starion trannies can be modified...which, I am beginning to wonder if the Starion trannies have the same tranny bolt pattern as the truck and Montero Sport 4G64's...more on that below... I had quite a revelation today when I was doing a timing belt on a Montero Sport...it had a 2.4L...(there's not many around, but, they're out there)...and so I started thinking about some different trucks and cars that use the 4G64. The later Mighty Max's had a 2.4L also...AND, they were RWD... now, before I get too far ahead, I have to tell you that the transmission mounting pattern for the Montero and the Mighty Max 4G64's are a little different than the car 4G64's, however here's what I'm thinking... You can take the engine AND tranny from either a Mighty Max with a 4G64 (there's quite a few out there) or a Montero Sport with a 4G64 and transplant the block into a Z. This will save quite a bit of trouble...I measured the Montero Sports transmission and it looked like it was right about 29.5", which is right about 1.5" longer than the Z's tranny...however...that might not be a bad thing...The DOHC 4G63 head has the crank sensor on the backside of the head, so you may need that extra clearance... I was also looking at the intake manifold of the Montero Sport when I remembered one of the problems StarQuest guys run into...if you put the DOHC head on in a RWD car, you have to modify the intake manifold and mount the throttle body on the other side (I've seen it done alot, so I guess it's not all that hard)...I bet you could use a Montero Sport or trucks intake manifold on the 4G63 head (I've already stuck a 4G64 intake from a car on to a 4G63 head and it should work OK) and get around that little problem... Now, I'm 99% sure the 4G63 head will bolt right onto the truck block and I'm almost 100% positive the truck and Montero Sport trannie's are interchangeable... (the part number is different, but that may have to do with internal gearing) Sorry if I've lost you...I've started to ramble some... It would be pretty difficult to drop an AWD drivetrain into a Z...it *could* be done, but, there'd need to be a WHOLE LOT of fabbing done...it'd probably be easier and cheaper to drop a Skyline or a WRX's drivetrain in...but, I dunno...actually, the bain of AWD DSM's is the tranny, not the engine...the engine is great, the tranny's are always the weak spots. If you see a DSM break at the track it's probably not the engine, but the tranny instead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR8ED Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Rules of racing is right. GT2 is very sticky with mods.. ie in the under 3.0L class.. the DCOE webers on a z were restricted to 34mm chokes... kinda restricts power eh? A fellow in my club is a 5 time Canadian GT2 champion with a 71 240Z. He moved up to the GT1 class.. essentially unlimited..and unlimited budget.. even with all the power of his N/A L28, he simply could not out pull a 63 vette tube chassis with a full tilt V8 in it.. he could kill him in the turns....but in the straights...the V8 could pull him.. He solved that problem.. He dropped in a Vortec V6.. 4.3 or 4.6..I can't recall.. He doesn't lose to the vette anymore.. and this is a guy with what might as well be (for the average guy) unlimited funds.... BTW this is the same guy who said his 1/4 panel flares were too big....so I got them...hehehe hmmmm so I guess I should vote on a the Vortec.. I've seen this car up close and personal..VERY competitive to this day.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted May 26, 2002 Share Posted May 26, 2002 This doesn't directly have to do with this thread...but...I found a video of a Mighty Max with 4G63 in it... http://dsetuning.streetkiaz.com/plebani.mpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 What about the 3 rotor mentioned earlier. I know those things make way better torque than the 2's from the RX-7s. With a good turbo those things make a ton of power, and they rev to the sky. I think it was Turbo magazine that just came out with a story on some 3 rotor turbo that makes huge power. I'll check and get back to you. I'm pretty sure those rotaries are pretty light weight too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted June 1, 2002 Share Posted June 1, 2002 Rotaries are excellent engines...they just have a problem of blowing apex seals under high boost, but once you upgrade the seals then they are pretty strong (look at all of the Rotary powered Celicas running down in PR). Tri-Rotor engines aren't cheap, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImportRacer Posted June 20, 2002 Author Share Posted June 20, 2002 I havent been on the site in awhile. Glad to see the thread is still alive though! Im still currently waiting on founds to build the 240z, that or waiting for some one to wreck into my talon so I can collect some insurance hehehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fly yellow Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 the problem with the 3 rotor is that it is a bolt together crank and is limited to about 7200 rpm and from there on you are really risking throwing your pretty and expensive motor all over the place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 240Zduz10s Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 i wouldnt put a 3sgte in a z unless you have plenty of cash for rebuilds.. although they are tough there are some design flaws that limit power .. the most important being the intake manifold.. #2and#3 cyl end up getting more boost pressure and a little bit of detonation and those pistons are crumbs.. (ask me how i know imo.. a better 4cyl would be the 4g63 because of its proven track record and plenty of aftermarket following. But if it were me.. since it came with and inline six.. just put another inline six ie 7mgte,2jzgte these motors will provide all kinds of fun probably more than anyone really needs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heinekenns Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 Don't forget the KA24DE - out of the venerable 240sx. I'm a 240 owner, so naturally I'm biased, but this is an awesome engine too. It too has piston oil squirters. Its a super stout engine - its just not built with super strong rods and pistons from the factory like a 4g or 2jz. Still, people have made 370 hp on factory bottom ends. 500+ hp with built bottoms. I've read that japanese engine builders/tuners Tomei examined the engine and stated that it was one of the strongest nissan 4 cylinder designs - so take what you can from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImportRacer Posted July 3, 2002 Author Share Posted July 3, 2002 Im a big supra fan and love the supra engines. I think a 7m,1jz, or 2jz would make great engines for the car. I just cant quit decide what would be THE BEST. The 4G63 or 4G64 would be a cool swap since it is so light and can make a lot of power. If you could keep the AWD that would be a nifty thing to have in a Z. I would personaly love to have an AWD Z. But the dsm awd drive train isnt the best out there as well... DSM's are known to brake But so is any car you abuse =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 Just a little note about the Mitsu 4 banger they are tough little engines that can make great power. It is one of the loudest idlling 4's I have ever seen tick tick tick. It lacks alot of the sophistication, bottom end torque and smoothness of the SR20. The modded Mitsu is still a very potent package when done right. Currently I play with my brothers Talon TSI, hard car to beat bang for the buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 It was suggested that I read this thread. Most racing organizations have a "run what ya brung" class at the regional level. In SCCA its ITE if you're running DOT-R tires and normal aspiration and SP for everything else. NASA has similar classes. If a person is serious about something like this you need to get the various rule books first and read them thoroughly before building the car. There are a lot of nuances in race car preparation and safety that will keep your "wunderkar" from ever turning lap. And, may I suggest from experience, that you spend more time on suspension and handling than on horsepower. Otherwise, you'll get lapped by a regular old ITS 240Z... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImportRacer Posted July 3, 2002 Author Share Posted July 3, 2002 SUSPENSION is definatly a key word. Im not ignoring it by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 240Zduz10s Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 http://huxracing.com/backup/Page_22x.html this guy builds a better plenum for the 3sgte it is still not what i would call best.. one that feeds from the side is best. a company called ross machine racing used to make them but it looks like they only have them for 4g63's now.. as far as st205 goes its just a chassis code toyota has...ie toyota mr2=sw20.. early alltrac=st165... 90's alltrac st185.. 94 supra=jza80 .. ive been thinking about puting the 3sgte into my old rx7 .. i know its not a z but its all i got Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 Would any of you guys happen to know where to buy an exhaust manifold for a Galant VR4 that puts the turbo up the other way, instead of the bottom it puts the turbo on the top? My friend wants one 'cause apparently you need them to put a VR4 or Evo engine in a Starion. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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