Successful 250gto body install

[Guest sball]

Hopefully anyone looking for advice or info on fitting a kit can get something from this.

Firstly I fitted a kit with a bonnet(not a tilt front kit).

As I previously posted, Fibreglass WILL NOT bond to metal with enough success so that joins will not show in the paint or at worst crack open and fall off.

Always try to finish the glass panel at the edge of the metal frame with the bonding agent supplied (the bonding agent only has to hold your panel in place until you have finished glassing the panel on to the metal, this is done by removing some gellcoat from the glass panel edge to expose the resin and glass(scratch the area with say 40- 60 grit paper, lay glass matt to cover at least 2" onto the glass panel and as far as you like over and around the metal section, what you are acheiving is a tight grip of the metal frame work, next feather out the glass with 120 grit paper until only a fiant layer in left on the glass panel and leave as much meat as you can on the edges and on the metal, where you need to clean up for painting you can fill the glass section over the metal section with polyester filler but NOT on the glass panel section (YOU CANNOT USE CAR BOG ON FIBREGLASS PANELS) this is the part you'll hate, fill any imperfections on the glass panels with resin, you may need to primer these areas a couple of times to make sure all the imperfections are gone, a small amount of bog to fill pin holes will be OK but any bigger than 2mm in size and it will fall out eventually. Where you bond the rear clip with hard top, use rivets or self tappers every 2" or so (counter sunk) and fill these holes with resin and wrap the panel as said previously. The roof will require glass over the whole roof with holes in the metal to avoid delaminating If you are fitting a bonnet type kit there are some neat and easy tricks to make it fit like a factory bonnet (no clips and solid as a rock) Later !

If any one has more or better ideas I'd be glad to read them, I'll be building No.2 next month hopefully with the Lexus V8.

[Guest Anonymous]

S Ball ,, I have always been impressed with Ausrailian ingenuity... looking forward to hearing about securing the bonnet. Nate and I have discovered a nightmare in the Thunder Ranch non tilting front end. We finally got the fenders lined up to the doors but need to secure the "bonnet" I am trying to find out where and what vehicle the "scissor style hinge" came from on my Tomahawk kit so it can be adapted to the GTO hood and fenders.

[Guest Anonymous]

Tomahawk-

 

I put together a Rhino GT GTO Kit 10 years ago, and the scissor hood hinges supplied with it came from an early 70's corvette. I didn't like mounting them to the datsun radiator support, and ultimately I went to a one piece tilt by glassing my hood into the front end.

[Guest sball]

The bonnet mounting took a fair bit of thought, I ended up with the simplest and most practical operation, that would also keep the bonnet flush with the front nose section without fabricating steel frame work.

I took the original 240z bonnet and de-skinned it to leave me with the frame only, then with the frame locked down with the original lock I cut the frame to fit in the engine bay (just short of the radiator cross member), then I made sure the panel gap was OK, then glassed the steel frame to the glass bonnet, keeping it flush to the edge.

At the front of the bonnet I copied the front 2" of the bonnet with a temporary mould from thin aluminium, and glassed it on the underside of the bonnet sticking proud 1", so when the bonnet locks down it also locks up to the nose section to form a very solid construction of the area most likely to fatigue (above the 3 scoops). The hinges are now non structural and only need to support the bonnet when open, they were cheap gate hinges from the hardware store with long section glassed onto the bonnet. This was done with the hinges mounted to the cross member and with the bonnet down (engine out) with a torch and cordless screw driver I fixed to hinges to the bonnet, took off the bonnet and glassed in the hinges.(PERFECT)The bonnet stay was a $5 Mazda that bolted on in 5 min. The transparent resin shows what the hinges are, and it's best not to tell anyone to avoid laughter, so cover up the underside of the bonnet with insulating matt, this is also neccessary to reduce rapid temperature variation causing the paint to stretch and dull.

Paint (ASK YOUR PAINT SUPPLIER FOR A FLEX ADDITIVE) this will stop the paint cracking and faiding rapidly as you might have seen on old fibreglass bodies.

[Guest Anonymous]

T Max...(GM part #'s for the left and right hinges : 3912639 and 3912640 )I have the Corvette hinges like you described for my Blue Ray GTO kit but I do not care much for them either as a mount to the chassis is required and a pita to mount on the Thunder Ranch front end of Nate's Velo Rossa.The hinges are a simple design but without any locations marked like on the Blue Ray GTO kit, the pivot points and mounting location are hard to find on another kit. I will try to identify the hood/bonnet hinges on my Tommahawk which may be cut down scissor trunk hinges off a Nissan or Toyota. These lightweight hinges are mounted on the fenders to attach the hood which would require a simple proceedure of flipping the front clip and hood over on the ground and easily finding the proper mounting place and making the adjustments.

[Guest Anonymous]

S Ball, your posts are becoming an excellant step by step manual on the "advanced secrets" from "Down Under" installing a GTO body that are not found in any manual that comes with the kit.I do not know if using the under steel skeleton frame from the Z hood/bonnet will work on these american GTO hoods since they come with their own fiberglass built in frames but....... I see it would be a very easy proceedure to bond the steel skeleton frame onto a fiberglass Z hood with no frame. A person skilled in fiberglass could make a simple hood mold for a non-reinforced hood skin and then bond on the steel frame or webbing to reinforce the fiberglass hood/bonnet...........Very good points about adding a flex additive to the paint and adding insulating material underneath the hood

[jagster]

Wow, another trip into unknown territory. I have long admired the 250 GTO body and really would like to do this swap, but there are pitfalls and a great deal of fabrication that goes with the job. It looks simple in the color brochures they send you, and the 'magic' bonding agent they sell sure looks simple. I just wonder how many of these kits have started coming apart where the bonding takes place, and the paint starts to show the cracks. Looks like the convertible offers the best chance of success, as you don't have those exposed roof sections to worry about. And I like the 'clamshell' hood, much like my XK-E, only the whole thing won't rust away. LOL. Looks like this project is similar to making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It can be done, but be prepared for some grief. Sure glad I researched this thread. Thanks to all. Ron

[COZY Z COLE]

Looks like this project is similar to making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It can be done, but be prepared for some grief. Sure glad I researched this thread.

 

I hope your research included reading the following thread.... It has as of now over 500 posts:grin:.

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=115734

 

 

LARRY

[jagster]

Yes, I have read everything on the threads, have been in touch with Mr. Washington, and even talked to Joe Alphabet (real name) who started the whole controversy. He and another designer discussed the similarities in the designs of the two cars and thought it would be an interesting project. These were the Alpha cars that quickly got sold to Eagle after Joe was threatened by Ferrari to cease and desist. One of the early pix that surfaced in the auto mags showed the car parked outside a Ferrari dealership, my guess, in California. Of course, McBurnie got in on the fun, and produced a few cars. I am sure there are a number of people who have gotten into the act, have taken molds off some of the early cars, and have gotten into business for a short while. It is a timeless design, and it's understandable that many people would like a replica of it. Same goes for the fabulous XK-E or e-type cars. A few replicas have surfaced, and some Brits make metal replicas of the car. Do it right, and you will spend the same money as an original. Same goes for Ferrari knockoffs.

I believe that Mr. Washington has done the best job of putting together a kit that can be assembled easily and made into a decent car, with a little time and patience. The Cobra thing is very well established, and no further coverage is necessary here, only to mention the Cobra kit for the Z car. Not one of the better attempts.

[SpeedRacer]

Wow, old thread - good search!

 

I visited with Joe Alphabet when I originally bought my Alpha 1 GTO kit from him but didn't know he was still around.

 

BTW, Joe bought the Ferrari 250 GTO molds from Barry Goldstein at Eagle GT - not the other way around. You might find this article interesting http://www.eaglegt.com/index.php?section=eaglegto

 

Joe used to restore old Ferrari's so when the Ferrari factory lawyers came knocking he sold the molds to Tom McBurnie. The Ferrari Daytona replica that Tom manufactured was featured in the hit TV series Miami Vice. So it was Tom and his Daytona replica that got Ferrari's attention so they paid Tom a visit. Although Tom fought them in court he ended up losing the battle. Tom was out of the business for a while but now runs Thunder Ranch. http://www.thunderranch.com/ He doesn't sell the Daytona kit anymore but does offer the GTO one. The original Eagle (Alpha) front end had some serious problems. The area around the front scoops and gap to the hood was a very difficult place to keep any kind of tolerance. Just look at the hood fit most Alpha 1 GTO's and you will easily see the problem. We can thank Tom who fixed the problem by moving the hood back, using Corvette hood hinges mounted to the radiator core support and he also redesigned the grill opening so it more closey matched the real thing. John Washington solved the problem by making the whole front nose a one piece tilt unit.

 

After Tom lost the lawsuit, the GTO molds went to Jim Simpson who owned Blue Ray Engineering. Jim sold them to Bill Cummings who started Stable Autoworks. Unfortunately Bill passed away and the business (Stable Autoworks) was sold the Jeff Krekeler. I think Tom Edwards (Scorpion Z Car) had the best GTO molds but they have since been sold to OM Sportscars. http://www.omsportscars.com/

 

BTW, as I mention above, my car is an Alpha 1 GTO that I originally bought in kit form from Joe at his Huntington Beach shop. If you have Joe's number I would love to give him a call.

 

 

 

 

Also, I don't know what happened to sball, but as a point of information since this thread started with a statement about bonding, you do not use Fiberglass to bond the panels. I can't remember the name, but the Alpha kit came with two gallons of an "aircraft epoxy" to bond the panels to the steel. And, after seven years mine is still holding up quite well.

[Boy from Oz]

Small world. In reading this revived thread I was pleasantly surprised to see it was started by someone in Oz, albeit in 2002. The details started to sound familiar and I remembered this is the car featured in posts #184 & #187 in the 250 GTO Owners thread when it sold at auction.

 

http://www.shannons.com.au/pages/auctions/lot.jsp?id=O391PAR7BLNB0R80#

 

Re: the Ferrari injunction against McBurnie - In Kit Car (Aug '89) it refers only to the McBurnie California Daytons Spyder, there is no mention of the 250 GTO. The article states; "As a consequence of the decision a permanent injunction was initially issued against McBurnie Coachcraft Inc, and Tom McBurnie which prohibited Tom from manufacturing, selling or distributing the McBurnie California Daytona Spyder...". It's all water under the bridge now but there may never have been a direct injunction on the 250 GTO kit.